RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm

RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (Full Version)

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/20/2010 11:10:19 PM)
The problem does often tend to be that subs polarize things and are scared that if they submit, if they obey, if they really just do what he says ALL the time, that they will lose themselves. THe fact is that the noisy loud attention seeking behavior IS rewarded in the kink scene while the quiet soft background behavior is often ignored/taken for granted. This sets up an environment in which you are either smart/funny/lively/bratty OR you're just a dishrag with no personality. It also does not help things that there are some obnoxious subs out there who will be rude and interfering and justify it by saying "I'm a brat and my dom likes it so stfu." Whatever good things brats may have is tainted by this. The reality tends to be that we're all pretty complex- that you can be fully obedient AND sparkling in personality and wit. That many doms are scared shitless of any ongoing responsibility so they encourage subs to act up as an excuse to reaffirm the dynamic. It really doesn't matter how you work in your relationship as long as you don't make it an issue for others and don't suggest that others aren't sparkling because they choose another path.

tazzygirl -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 12:48:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealSub58 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl as do you, though i dont like taking a debate to cmail simply because someone does not like how its turning out. as I wrote in cmail ~~ "I am going to respond to you here because derailing a forum is not in good taste:" I stand by my statements in my 2nd post. First, my response to you was not a derailment. I responded to your post. Im truly not sorry you didnt like or enjoy the response. I could have sugar coated it, but thats not my way with other submissives. Second, after reading through the many posts (sadly work called me away) i agree with much many people had to say. What i dont agree with is the call for violence... Third... last time i checked a submissive is as her/his owner desires her/him to be. Many men like the challenge. Some prefer peaceful tranquility. There is no one way about any of this.

tazzygirl -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 12:50:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlygurl ~FR~ I don't care for smart asses. There's a fine line IMO as far as being a smart ass and being funny. I guess it's a subjective matter. An adult acting like a brat is something I dislike very much. If I were the violent type, I'd smack the shit right outta them. [:)] You would smack a grown adult because you cannot look past what you believe to be correct behavior? Talk about childishness. Btw, i can be the violent type. May want to reconsider that smacking thing. Could get your ass beat. [:D]

ranja -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 1:44:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheLadyIsADomme quote: ORIGINAL: ranja i agree that being a brat or behaving in a bratty sort of way is a form of attention seeking, but so is asking a polite question. How so, Ranja? Asking a question to me does not rise to the level of attention seeking behavior in the same way I define brattiness. Because with this little line i got your attention didn't i? if i would have put "but so is asking a fucking question" i bet a lot more people would have noticed it and felt compelled to comment on it. As you say it does not rise to the same level of attention, so it depends on the amount and the sort of attention a person is seeking as to how outspoken or even rude or bratty they are. I asked my Husband if He thought i was bratty... He said not, as for Him a brat is always a child and brattiness is inherently connected to childish behaviour, something He does not recognise in me... also i have to point out that my Husband rather likes spirit than slavish behaviour... He does not find me totally obedient either, and obviously the fact that i call Him Daddy at times does not mean for Him that i would be a child... (hmmm something i might have to work on) That whole paragraph takes nothing away from the fact that i myself feel wonderfully bratty at times, generating a bit of excitement, or even drama: an emotional rollercoaster that i like riding and He likes to set off sometimes too. One poster mentioned PMS and i am affected by that too, i am most definitely more 'uppity' at certain times of the month. Also i disagree with my Husband that i am not totally obedient, cos in the end i always do what He wants... ( i thought He was a bit of a brat when He said that...)

limerentgirl -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 7:40:54 AM)
This whole brat/sarcasm thing is a big reason why I have sometimes had a problem with identifying and running-with my sub nature -- because I am awful brat, I am sarcastic as h3ll, I luv to dish: all the worst of the girly-girl "nature," I guess. lol I recall a retro poster with a polished woman saying: "You go girl -- and take those tacky shoes with you" -- I frikkin luv that! So yah, i guess I am a bit of a bish in my own way. I have a strong personality and I am not afraid to use it. and yet... ORIGINAL: mstrjx--I think it could be a case of 'strength requiring strength'. This really speaks to it. Part of why I am, at my heart, sub, is precisely because in my "waking life" I am a strong person. I've had to be, and for the most part I enjoy it and am reasonably successful at being strong, in control, all that. But oh, the longing for a man who can value, appreciate, encourage my strength but who knows that when it comes to it, what I really want is to give that strength, that control, to him. To relinquish and luxuriate. Take me as I am This may mean you'll have to be a stronger man -Meredith Brooks/Bitch So -- because I have trouble calling some guy "sir" just cuz he says, I have been told that I am not a sub, that I oughtta try my hand at rolling domme, when that appeals not at all. You wanta be my man? You want to be my daddy? You want to dominate All This? Earn it. When I call u sir, when I call u daddy and when I give you all of me, it will be all of me and it will be natural, normal, as the night follows the day. It all has to integrate, I can't compartmentalize who I am. There is no god-given or self-proclaimed right to domdom -- you may roll that way, and good on ya buddy, have fun with that, but I have no obligation to recognize you as such regardless my basic sub nature. If this makes me "just a BRsub" and if that is somehow a lesser creature in some pantheon in yr mind, then whatevs, I ain't losing sleep. snap! oh yes she did. My man is out there somewhere and he will bend me, but he has no interest whatsoever in breaking me. That is why I love him before we've ever met and why I will worship him when we finally come together.

RealSub58 -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 8:01:10 AM)
quote: f the submissive is of a bratty type, or has attention-seeking issues or is prone to disobedience, the dominant has to exhibit whatever tools at their disposal to achieve this goal. If this goal cannot be achieved, then either the dominant was not strong enough, or the submissive is possibly untrainable or doesn't really wish to submit. Certainly a little of both could be the case. I REALLY do appreciate this comment. There are times when I have issues here at home that I allow to creep into my mood and Sir can hear it in my voice. I now think it might be an unconcious attention/sympathy seeking on my part. But I am not bratty or disrespectful. If I am even the tiniest bit disrespectfull, I hear it in his voice. This is actually the way I was hoping my OP discussion would proceed. I attempted to discontinue the derailment, but I didn't succeed....... (For what it's worth, the distractions I've been experiencing over the last two hours while trying to respond have caused me to believe that I don't like this response but don't know how to answer any other way at the moment. Obviously I'm a bad dom.) ........ tis why I so appreciated the self centric comment in regards to brattiness. I had to take a break and re-read my original post. It did come across a bit holier than thou and that was not my tone while writing it and I never meant to insinuate the huge leap of assumption that a bratty sub is not a good sub. I wanted to understand brattiness, smart ass behaviour (even self announcement of such in profile with no clarification) or why one uses sarcasm, esp in these forums ( responding to or listening to sarcasm in person is far different for me than reading it or being perceived as sarcastic), on people they have never met and only think they know who the writer is by their on perceived opinions. My way is more cynical, based on lack of trust, rather than sarcastic. (I hope I have not pissed off or alienated 99% of you all again) I very much appreciated the strength to strength commentaries. I do not regret using "thick headed" (tis just a way of saying something culturally) altho a better word to have used, as I see now, could have been "strong." I really did not appreciate the character bashing as no one on CM except for 2 or 3 (who don't even bother with forums) has ever met me. I do envy the fact that many here have built up relationships and finally met. I hope the continued commentaries are are on topic. BTW, my screen name was given to me.

KITTYLECTRO -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 8:06:00 AM)
I don't care what anyone else does and I'm not going to malign those who are into this sort of thing, but I refuse to put up with 'subs' who are bratty toward me.

RealSub58 -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 8:09:41 AM)
quote: He especially likes seeing how I use the "smartass" side of myself to handle situations with others that are trying to "control" what I do. I try very hard not to even be rude or nasty to people but my own self confidence and assertiveness many times comes across as arrogant or judging. I continue to work on this. I was given a "montra" and daily, sometimes several times a day, I rely on it...... I control my own feelings.... Other people's actions and words CANNOT control my feelings. I Choose how I respond/react.

juliaoceania -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 8:21:50 AM)
quote: I do not regret using "thick headed" (tis just a way of saying something culturally) altho a better word to have used, as I see now, could have been "strong." "thick headed" is a term used for "dense" people... also a way of calling someone "stupid"... quote: I really did not appreciate the character bashing as no one on CM except for 2 or 3 (who don't even bother with forums) has ever met me. I do envy the fact that many here have built up relationships and finally met. I hope the continued commentaries are are on topic. Don't want to take the heat, don't write it...

January -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 8:24:50 AM)
quote: "thick headed" is a term used for "dense" people... also a way of calling someone "stupid"... I always thought thick-headed meant "stubborn". January

juliaoceania -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 8:27:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January quote: "thick headed" is a term used for "dense" people... also a way of calling someone "stupid"... I always thought thick-headed meant "stubborn". January I typed thickheaded into igoogle ap djective used informally synonyms blockheaded, boneheaded, fatheaded, thick, thickheaded, thick-skulled, wooden-headed

RealSub58 -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 8:42:28 AM)
ladies, I still use the word queer to mean strange. Do I mis-speak? Cultures or those parts of cultures that become a part of us, in our daily life can mean rather different things to others. Tis why we define our terms. Tis why I ask what I do in the OP. I speak in "jest (which to some is sarcasm or cynicism or whatever else)." I still use "fortnight." I still spell "behaviour" and cross my 7's and Z's. I am not wrong...just different.

juliaoceania -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 8:50:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealSub58 ladies, I still use the word queer to mean strange. Do I mis-speak? Cultures or those parts of cultures that become a part of us, in our daily life can mean rather different things to others. Tis why we define our terms. Tis why I ask what I do in the OP. I speak in "jest (which to some is sarcasm or cynicism or whatever else)." I still use "fortnight." I still spell "behaviour" and cross my 7's and Z's. I am not wrong...just different. Context is everything, if I say "That plant is growing queerly" that is a different statement than "You're a queer"... You left no context as to some alternative cultural meaning that you may have had... whatever culture that is, I haven't a clue, your profile says you are from Wisconsin, I wasn't aware they don't use standard English there. You know, it is really simple, if you are trying to communicate ideas to other people, and you fail to do, and as a result you are offensive because of your word choice, well the onus is on you to correct that because you are the one attempting to communicate an idea... I still have no idea what you meant by "thick", but your unwillingness to clarify after knowing the term was construed to mean "stupid", well that really shows how stubborn you are, doesn't it? I mean, why not say, " I did not mean these dominants were stupid"....perhaps you DID mean it, and you aren't regretful about that... If I accidentally called a bunch of people stupid, I would regret it... but that is the type of manners that i have

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 9:14:37 AM)
It is intriguing that the doms who are strong enough to simply walk away and NOT engage in negative attention seeking behavior are labeled "He's not strong enough to tame me." It's the femsub equivalent of "If she won't fuck me then she's a bitch."

juliaoceania -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 9:18:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross It is intriguing that the doms who are strong enough to simply walk away and NOT engage in negative attention seeking behavior are labeled "He's not strong enough to tame me." It's the femsub equivalent of "If she won't fuck me then she's a bitch." I wouldn't know, I just know I am tame around certain men, and not so much so around others[:D]

xxblushesxx -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 9:28:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January quote: "thick headed" is a term used for "dense" people... also a way of calling someone "stupid"... I always thought thick-headed meant "stubborn". January Yes, HM thought that too. Erm...not that he's ever mis-spoke and called me "thick" or anything. (and yes, we discussed it. He meant stubborn.) (Or would have had he ever said it...[:-][&:])

tazzygirl -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 9:38:24 AM)
quote: I had to take a break and re-read my original post. It did come across a bit holier than thou and that was not my tone while writing it and I never meant to insinuate the huge leap of assumption that a bratty sub is not a good sub. Im glad you could step back and see what the rest of us saw in your post. regardless of how you intended it, its how we receive it that got you in hot water. quote: I wanted to understand brattiness, smart ass behaviour (even self announcement of such in profile with no clarification) or why one uses sarcasm, esp in these forums ( responding to or listening to sarcasm in person is far different for me than reading it or being perceived as sarcastic), on people they have never met and only think they know who the writer is by their on perceived opinions. My way is more cynical, based on lack of trust, rather than sarcastic. (I hope I have not pissed off or alienated 99% of you all again) If this had been your Op, your responses would have been different, and i will attempt to respond. As i said before, some men enjoy a brat. Your definition of a brat is, im sure, different than a man's. His definition of a brat towards him may be different than his definition of his submissive being a brat towards others. I do not find fault with the submissive if his/her behavior becomes intolerable to me. I look to the owner. I have a caustic wit. I also look to the man in my life to let me know if i possibly have stepped too close to the line. Its my belief that the owner sets the tone. If he/she enjoys the bratty behavior, the sarcasm, then who am i to speak out against it? If i cannot tolerate it, all i can do is distance myself from the situation. quote: I very much appreciated the strength to strength commentaries. I do not regret using "thick headed" (tis just a way of saying something culturally) altho a better word to have used, as I see now, could have been "strong." I really did not appreciate the character bashing as no one on CM except for 2 or 3 (who don't even bother with forums) has ever met me. I do envy the fact that many here have built up relationships and finally met. I hope the continued commentaries are are on topic. No one bashed your character. We bashed what you posted in your Op.

daddysprop247 -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 9:44:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross The problem does often tend to be that subs polarize things and are scared that if they submit, if they obey, if they really just do what he says ALL the time, that they will lose themselves. THe fact is that the noisy loud attention seeking behavior IS rewarded in the kink scene while the quiet soft background behavior is often ignored/taken for granted. This sets up an environment in which you are either smart/funny/lively/bratty OR you're just a dishrag with no personality. It also does not help things that there are some obnoxious subs out there who will be rude and interfering and justify it by saying "I'm a brat and my dom likes it so stfu." Whatever good things brats may have is tainted by this. The reality tends to be that we're all pretty complex- that you can be fully obedient AND sparkling in personality and wit. That many doms are scared shitless of any ongoing responsibility so they encourage subs to act up as an excuse to reaffirm the dynamic. It really doesn't matter how you work in your relationship as long as you don't make it an issue for others and don't suggest that others aren't sparkling because they choose another path. excellent post LA, and i don't want it getting lost in the shuffle. your observations about the public scene are spot on...and this from someone who rarely ventures out there. those who walk around pouting, protesting, whining, and being insanely disrespectful to their own Dominant are seen as "fun" and "playful," whereas my quiet deference and obedience is seen as strange and dull. it is one of the reasons why i have no desire to attend such events/venues again, as it is clear i do not fit in. "That many doms are scared shitless of any ongoing responsibility so they encourage subs to act up as an excuse to reaffirm the dynamic." that is harsh truth that many will deny, but it is truth nonetheless. Jefff's comments about "strength requiring strength" bothered me so much because it is such a popular lifestyle myth that it takes a big bad "dom" to tame the wild, bratty, take-no-guff "sub." when the reality is that a strong Dominant man is not going to entertain such a "sub" at all. and it's been my observation over the years, on and offline, that many of those who are willing to entertain such subs do so because they are insecure in their dominance, they do not fully "own" it, so they need the constant affirmation which comes from the submission of a bratty-type. moreover, they are horrified at the level of responsibility and control required to actually dominate someone, as opposed to simply catering to the whims and desires of someone else. it is also not a sign of strength or dominance, imo, to desire to engage in battles of will and authority, or to feel the need to prove oneself to someone so they will bend to you.

heartcream -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 9:52:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealSub58 I was reading about a totally different subject when a line popped out at me: There might be two “laws” we can choose to live by ~~ the law which says “I can find freedom and fullness of life if I keep the rules” or the law which says “I can find freedom and fullness of life if I break the rules." (I took the liberty to take a few words out that spoke of the other topic.) Who sets these rules? What rules are you following? Being yourself is about the only rule worth sticking to. If you want to follow some rules that is nice for you but others who not feel aligned with those same rules are not necessarily breaking rules because they arent following them.

tazzygirl -> RE: the beauty of brattiness and sarcasm (6/21/2010 10:10:33 AM)
quote: that is harsh truth that many will deny, but it is truth nonetheless. Jefff's comments about "strength requiring strength" bothered me so much because it is such a popular lifestyle myth that it takes a big bad "dom" to tame the wild, bratty, take-no-guff "sub." when the reality is that a strong Dominant man is not going to entertain such a "sub" at all. and it's been my observation over the years, on and offline, that many of those who are willing to entertain such subs do so because they are insecure in their dominance, they do not fully "own" it, so they need the constant affirmation which comes from the submission of a bratty-type. moreover, they are horrified at the level of responsibility and control required to actually dominate someone, as opposed to simply catering to the whims and desires of someone else. it is also not a sign of strength or dominance, imo, to desire to engage in battles of will and authority, or to feel the need to prove oneself to someone so they will bend to you. Popular lifestyle myth? According to whom? A strong Dominant will entertain whatever he desires to entertain. I know many who enjoy a willfull girl, if for nothing else than to tame her... as someone else pointed out... "The Taming of the Shrew" Your comment before this mentioned you rarely venture out into the public scene, yet you speak like you are an authority. Makes me wonder. Why is it discussion like this end up in one group of "submissives" dragging another group of "submissives" into the mudhole? Do you need to do that to make yourself feel better? In all honesty, the only "correct" answer for all this is really simple.... A man will have what he desires. What he doesnt desire, he will get rid of. If he allows such behavior, he must enjoy it, on some or any level. After all, isnt that one of the purposes of being submissive to a man (or woman) is to give them pleasure?

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