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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/21/2010 11:56:25 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

The whole point is that people on the pit bull thread will talk about the owner's responsibility for the animal biting the OP's dog and not properly supervising, and then those same people think that these people irresponsibly leaving the dog in the car is just a horrible mistake.


I put a higher value on human life than I do canine life. I do not think we are intrinsically more valuable, but at the same time I have species loyalty.... so when we weigh the mistake of accidentally leaving a dog in a car and letting a vicious dog kill a child,.... I think one is worse than the other....

I do not think that pet owners whose animals are out of control should necessarily be imprisoned for this.... this would depend... were they training the dog to be vicious? Did they know the dog was vicious? Did they sick the dog on someone? All these factors mean something....

I am actually a pretty moderate person, with pretty level headed ideas. I don't see the world in black and white... and you keep painting positions on me I do not have. I think one needs information before exonerating or condemning, you on the other hand tend to take positions very quickly with very few facts...

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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 12:41:10 AM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
~~~~~~~~~~~~fast reply~~~~~~~~~~~~

This thread really brought out a lot of intense feelings.  You know me, I have to toss in my two cents rather than just let this pass.
 
I would never have phoned the police.  The dog had probably been in the car millions of times and had been fine...dogs ride in cars here in WV all the time.  Owners often go to stores during the cooler hours or on overcast days.  I have lived in many states, including California, Texas, and Florida, and people try to judge carefully when it's safe...and some small percentage fail.
 
About it being easy to see an animal in the car, hah.  I have two cats that jump into my minivan when I get home.  They're a pain in my a**.  I have three rows of seats and lots of hiding places and a few times one has been locked in by accident.  When we've gotten one cat out, another sneaks in.  I only let my males outside, as they were used to being outside before I got them.  Griz would sh*t all over the house if I didn't let him outside, and Cyrano would stand on the monkey's tail talking a blue streak until we went stark raving mad.
 
A few years ago, when my friend and neighbor Carin was still alive, she kept bags of dog food in her little car.  While she unloaded groceries, my cat got into her car and she couldn't see him...had no way to guess he had done this.  She accidentally locked him in.  In the sun, all windows up, not in the shade, and it was in the 80's.  When he didn't come home that first night, my son and I drove up and down every street within a few blocks of the house, looking for his body and calling his name and stopping to listen for an injured cry.  It never came.  The next morning, I phoned the humane society and gave a description, phoned all the veterinarians in our town and in the nearby towns...described my boy and told them if he showed up injured that I would take financial responsibility and left my phone number.  I also called the city and talked personally with the dog catcher, as well as the guy who had to scrape dead animals off the road and cart them away.  The next morning, we knocked on neighbors' doors again, and I was sadly leaving Carin's when I saw my boy plastering himself to her inside car window, feet on the glass and mouth wide open, soundlessly screaming his head off.  She was so upset when she opened her car.  He'd lost a lot of weight but was okay.  I was very lucky.  (I used to work in a vet's office, and knew how to baby him and give some Pedialyte.)  As for loss of brain cells...I don't know.  He was always big and stupid.  :)
 
Bottom line, most people love animals and wouldn't dream of hurting pets.  We try our best but accidents happen.  We grieve.  I know twenty minutes of suffering was hard...but is death ever easy?  People screw up, they learn and are much more careful in the future.  Personally, I wish all animals who died slowly from being hit by a car and having their entrails splattered out all over the road had a chance to overheat and pass out in a car instead.  But that's just me.  Yes, I had to watch and listen to a cop scraping a puppy in that kind of predicament off the road into a box, I was a pedestrian with my toddler and it was horrible.  The screaming was horrible.  Nobody was arrested or reported...because it was an accident. 
 
I've also had the unfortunate experience of hitting animals with my car, one cat, one black kitten, and a skunk, each time was an absolute horror.  Nobody arresed me for animal abuse.  That one town might have, if they only knew I was the one who ran over that skunk.
 
All these people who want pets to have perfect lives with perfect owners...think about this.  All those animals taken away by the police, where do you think they go?  Most of them are put to sleep, which is a sugar coated word for killed.  I've held animals down while they're given that shot.  It's not "sleep" and it's not pretty.  There are never enough homes to go around.  Animal rescue can only handle/save a drop in the bucket, I assure you.
 
There's a huge difference between an abused animal...and a horrible, unfortunate accident.  Cry if you need to...then do something.  Go to that site and get those nasty notes to put on people's car...heck, why not go all out for public humiliation and take a cam corder and be sure to get closeups of the animals panting and the license plate of the vehicle.  I'm not kidding.  Take it to a local news station.  Put out fliers on all vehicles, reminding them about animals and kids in cars...kinda like those annoying pizza fliers we used to get in California.  Then...donate your time to animal shelters, and offer to be foster mommies.  One woman I know took in a mom cat with her newborn...she'd had one baby unexpectedly and this changed her from adoptable to death row.  The woman fostered her until the baby was old enough to be adopted.
 
Instead of getting upset, do something positive.  Try to get free or low cost spay and neutering clinics available in your area.  If someone has an animal and has to take a bus...but bus won't allow...offer to be the driver.  Anybody can donate money to a good cause, it's quick and easy.
 
It's horrible to see a complete character assassination on someone who was only human, and made a mistake.  I knew a man once who had a little daughter...who brought home a baby kitten.  In the night, the kitten crawled in bed with her daddy, and while he was sleeping he rolled over on it.  The crunching sound woke him up.  Should he have been put in jail and taken away from his little daughter because he was careless, should have known better, and abused an animal?  Think about this.
 
I believe it's Sweden, but one country has harsh laws about animal abuse, and can punish people if their gold fish's water isn't clear enough...I saw this in a reputable magazine years ago.  I wonder if adoption rate of animals dropped drastically after this law was passed and enforced.  The life in pounds and humane societies should be as precious as a life in a car...and yet one "should" be labeled as abuse and deserving of jail time and the other sanctioned. 
 
I'll drop this subject like a rock now, and not come back to make more comments.  You don't want to get me started on the suffering I've seen...when owners aren't psychic and their animals decide to find some fun.  I'm the lucky person who had to hold an animal down while the vet pulled out quills, some forgotten fish hook in the bushes, or dried foxglove flowers from ear canals...and worse.  These were not ABUSED animals, just ones with loving owners who wanted them to enjoy life and took them to the doctor when the ouchies happened.  Some were eaten by coyotes or died from snake bites...or they died from cancer.  They were dearly loved and sorely missed.
 
 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 1:12:46 AM   
SaschaMarie


Posts: 87
Joined: 6/5/2010
From: Houston, Tx
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(Shameless puppy picture plug) My puppy stays cool all day in this Texas heat.

-Sascha

P.S. Fuck Earl




(Edited because i fail at posting pictures)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by SaschaMarie -- 6/22/2010 1:14:44 AM >


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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 6:09:37 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

Obviously you have never made a mistake.

If it had been a sleeping child you would want to send that person to jail?....What would that accomplish?

Unbelievable.


So you think these parents should get a pass? After all it was an accident.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-04-20/news/20856776_1_car-seat-station-wagon-light-sleeper


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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 6:59:56 AM   
LadyCimarron


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Joined: 12/29/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

So you think these parents should get a pass? After all it was an accident.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-04-20/news/20856776_1_car-seat-station-wagon-light-sleeper



They are not being prosecuted but they are far from getting  pass. They made a mistake that cost their baby's life. There is nothing the law can do that can top that for punishment.

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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 7:57:45 AM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Obviously you have never made a mistake.

If it had been a sleeping child you would want to send that person to jail?....What would that accomplish?

Unbelievable.


Our prisons are not full enough of people that are pot smokers, etc... we need to start locking up people for making a mistake.... but fear not, most of us fortunately make only nonfatal blunders... like when I broke my toe two years ago dropping shelf on it... it is paining me tonight, so yes, I still regret that boneheaded mistake

oh damn!  You didn't love on me back!



How can I show my love, baby?


Hold me, hold me, never let me go...



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<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 8:03:10 AM   
DarlingSavage


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When I was about 17 and my little brother was about 7, we lived in Houston.  One day during the summer, he had gone out and was playing in the car and had managed to get into this little compartment in the back of the station wagon.  He would have died had I not noticed something wrong with that picture when I was walking by.  His foot was sticking out of the compartment, however, the door was still closed.  No one knew that he had been in there.  I ran and got my mom, boy were they pissed!  I don't think they should have gone to jail if he had died, though, cause they had no idea that he had gone out there.  However, I do have to agree that they probably should have been keeping better track of him.

_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


(in reply to DarlingSavage)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 8:13:48 AM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

(Shameless puppy picture plug) My puppy stays cool all day in this Texas heat.

-Sascha


That does it!  I'm in love!


_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


(in reply to SaschaMarie)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 10:26:36 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
Charlie says "Hey I am cute too mom....show my pic!"





Attachment (1)

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yep

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 10:41:18 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Charlie says "Hey I am cute too mom....show my pic!"






And he rides in the back of a truck! Good example of how to transport a cutie on a hot day!



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 11:03:32 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
Good grief you are a piece of work woman.

He sits on the back of a truck, in my backyard, where just prior to this pic taking my self and a friend had been sitting drinking a beer.

I do not allow him to ride in the back of the truck.  I drag him behind it on a loggers chain like every good southerner does.

Fuck off.

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yep

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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 11:04:50 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Good grief you are a piece of work woman.

He sits on the back of a truck, in my backyard, where just prior to this pic taking my self and a friend had been sitting drinking a beer.

I do not allow him to ride in the back of the truck.  I drag him behind it on a loggers chain like every good southerner does.

Fuck off.


My bad!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 11:22:40 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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I would post a picture of my completely ungroomable 15 year old himalayan so you all could laugh your asses off, but he's sleeping.

While it is unfortunate that both kids and animals die when people make mistakes. People do make mistakes, and not all mistakes are criminal.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 11:24:36 AM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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How horrific for the pet owners.



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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 11:28:17 AM   
Jeffff


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When I was growing up on a farm in rural Wisconsin we always had a few pigs.

We would name them stupid things like Polly. We would feed them and care for them and play with them. We'd even put funny little hats on them and have tea parties.

Then we would kill them and eat them.

It taught me a lot about people.


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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 11:33:20 AM   
laurell3


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Tea parties and hats huh? Are you positive you're not the tiniest bit gay or bi?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 11:38:36 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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It would be against TOS for me to go into more detail.


The short answer is yes, I am sure.

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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 12:44:49 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRmO2BKR0FU&feature=geo  here we go another victim.

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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 12:48:03 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Charlie says "Hey I am cute too mom....show my pic!"







he is a cutie.

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RE: The Heat and Pets - 6/22/2010 2:45:17 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

When I was about 17 and my little brother was about 7, we lived in Houston.  One day during the summer, he had gone out and was playing in the car and had managed to get into this little compartment in the back of the station wagon.  He would have died had I not noticed something wrong with that picture when I was walking by.  His foot was sticking out of the compartment, however, the door was still closed.  No one knew that he had been in there.  I ran and got my mom, boy were they pissed!  I don't think they should have gone to jail if he had died, though, cause they had no idea that he had gone out there.  However, I do have to agree that they probably should have been keeping better track of him.


The difference is that your brother probably could have gotten out on his own (especially since his foot was sticking out). A baby or a dog (most of them anyway) can not open a car door.

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