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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:00:11 PM

littlewonder

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towards me I expect everyone to simply be human but if someone was to claim to have a submissive personality and then they approached me ina dominant manner I would have to wonder to myself why they would call themselves a submissive personality.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:00:27 PM

laurell3

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Thanks Whiplash, in that instance where the sub is bossing the dom around if it's not your dynamic, but observed, theoretically, are you making an assumption based on role of their expected behavior? I mean who knows, maybe it's an offday, maybe the guy fucked her mom yesterday and she's rather rightfully pissed off. I'm making extreme examples, I'm not poking fun, merely trying to point out, isn't it still having an expectation of someone based on role when they are not in a dynamic with you?

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:02:14 PM

Aynne88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

if you say you are submissive it means you surrender.

If you say you are A submissive it means you surrender at specific times at your choosing.

If you say you are a slave it means you surrender..period. You don't get to choose. You don't get to say how or when.

those are my definitions.

If you call yourself one of those then that's what I'm going to assume you are and how I would define that person in my mind.

So and I am not being passive aggressive, really

. If I say I am a submissive to my partner, that does not mean that I have a submissive personality I hope? I mean in certain cases right? Because I hate that whole labeling thing and it drives me nuts. He is more dominant than me, and I choose to love him and so that entails that I am submissive to him,but truly I am not submissive at all in any part of my life.So even when I see someone call themselves submissive I never assume that is their personality, just their position in their relationship. Slave I do admit I see differently.

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:04:07 PM

Missokyst

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I am a sado-masochist.
I also happen to be submissive.
These things are independent of each other.

I can vent my sado-masochistic side on myself, or I can vent it on others (sadistic), or I can allow someone to hurt me to push my masochistic buttons. I do not have to submit to them to do that any more than I am submitting to myself to do that. As a sadist or a masochist, I am either top or bottom and no more. This is not an ongoing relationship, it is simply a physical encounter EVEN if I only play with one partner.

My submissive side is more gaurded. I do not submit to everyone even though my personality is basically submissive. When I say I am basically submissive I mean that I am prone to helping out where I can. If I see people that need some sort of help more often than not I am willing to find out how they can get it. I run groups because it allows me to be helpful with a degree of control that keeps me from being ruled by the people I am trying to aid. If I am not in charge I tend to let someone work me to death, so calling the shots really helps me.

In my life I have been known to donate to charities in times of disaster even though it means I may not have enough to eat well. I have given away cars to friends who needed them. I fix computers often on my own time if people are truly in need. Because I don't submit to just anyone I do not loan or give money to family or friends because I do not want me to feel any resentment or them to feel guilt when they cannot pay me back.

When I am in a relationship I am submissive. I have learned to change my speech patterns, adopt different writing styles, be vigilant in using please and thank you (my upbringing did not do this), ask permission to make sure what I am doing is acceptable to my mate, become a better than average chef (I even was a caterer), and most recently I learned to fix computers to help out my mate at the time.

As a submissive I NEED to make the life of my mate easier. As a submissive I NEED to do what I can so that my mate finds me the most comfortable, likeable, valuable person just this side of himself.

As a submissive I do not need to be spanked, beaten, tortured, or engage in kinky sex.
That stuff is for the BDSM side of my personality. The sadist.. or the masochist is kinky sex.
The submissive is might as well be nilla if I am allowed to be myself and cater to my mate.

When I see people saying they are submissive and all I see is the kinky sex stuff, it bothers me to a degree because I know a LOT of people who were really bottoms (masochists), who ended up being frustrated by trying to fit in as a submissive.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:11:15 PM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I am a sado-masochist.
I also happen to be submissive.
These things are independent of each other.

I can vent my sado-masochistic side on myself, or I can vent it on others (sadistic), or I can allow someone to hurt me to push my masochistic buttons. I do not have to submit to them to do that any more than I am submitting to myself to do that. As a sadist or a masochist, I am either top or bottom and no more. This is not an ongoing relationship, it is simply a physical encounter EVEN if I only play with one partner.

My submissive side is more gaurded. I do not submit to everyone even though my personality is basically submissive. When I say I am basically submissive I mean that I am prone to helping out where I can. If I see people that need some sort of help more often than not I am willing to find out how they can get it. I run groups because it allows me to be helpful with a degree of control that keeps me from being ruled by the people I am trying to aid. If I am not in charge I tend to let someone work me to death, so calling the shots really helps me.

In my life I have been known to donate to charities in times of disaster even though it means I may not have enough to eat well. I have given away cars to friends who needed them. I fix computers often on my own time if people are truly in need. Because I don't submit to just anyone I do not loan or give money to family or friends because I do not want me to feel any resentment or them to feel guilt when they cannot pay me back.

When I am in a relationship I am submissive. I have learned to change my speech patterns, adopt different writing styles, be vigilant in using please and thank you (my upbringing did not do this), ask permission to make sure what I am doing is acceptable to my mate, become a better than average chef (I even was a caterer), and most recently I learned to fix computers to help out my mate at the time.

As a submissive I NEED to make the life of my mate easier. As a submissive I NEED to do what I can so that my mate finds me the most comfortable, likeable, valuable person just this side of himself.

As a submissive I do not need to be spanked, beaten, tortured, or engage in kinky sex.
That stuff is for the BDSM side of my personality. The sadist.. or the masochist is kinky sex.
The submissive is might as well be nilla if I am allowed to be myself and cater to my mate.

When I see people saying they are submissive and all I see is the kinky sex stuff, it bothers me to a degree because I know a LOT of people who were really bottoms (masochists), who ended up being frustrated by trying to fit in as a submissive.

Great post Miss. I agree that often times pigeonholing and the "not submissive enough" standard leads people to try to be things that they are not and will not succeed at instead of just accepting who they are and excelling at that.

How does one fit in as a submissive though? Isn't making the life of your mate easier something all people should do in relationships? I'm not nitpicking, I really am trying to get a feel for what you see as the distinction of who is a submissive and who isn't for you. I know it's not that easily defined which is why it's a difficult OP to word.

**
As a general aside (not directed at Miss or any other posters), there are no right or wrong answers. It really is ok to feel or think behaviors A, B and C are what someone personally finds makes a submissive to them.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/21/2010 8:12:07 PM >

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:17:00 PM

littlewonder

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I don't always see submissives as having submissive personalities. They could have either/or. They simply choose when to surrender. But slaves I see as having submissive personalities since they choose to surrender always.

But if you're going to say you are a slave and/or have a submissive personality then that is what I would expect to see from that person. Anything less and it would leave me a bit confused and and scratching my head.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:20:48 PM

ncprincess

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As a submissive I do not need to be spanked, beaten, tortured, or engage in kinky sex

I absolutely love this line. I can't tell you the number of times I've been told I'm not really a submissive because I say I don't like spankings. The dynamic of my relationship is spankings are punishment and something to be avoided which works for me. If I actually enjoyed spankings I wouldn't be able to follow his rules as well as I do.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:23:16 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Ok.. you got Me on "Submissive overall".

I don't care for submissive over all. I don't want my woman to be submissive over all. Are you kidding me? She could meet DG.

I want my woman to be submissive to me, situationally. That might look lame, but I am not perfect and I could demand some stupid shit.

I want her smart enough to say." no way knucklehead"

As far as her behavior towards others. common courtesy will do just fine.

Replace woman with man and she with he and DG with LP and I'm with the anteater.

As for the OP, I really don't care what anyone else's definition of domination and submission is. It only matters what definition I, and the one I'm with, has.

- LA

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:32:31 PM

Missokyst

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I agree that most couples engage in some sort of submission toward the relationship to keep it healthy. However, that of which I speak goes beyond it. For instance, I am a very precise linguist, but I learned to cuss, use slang, and relax my speech patterns because my mate at the time said this casually to me.. "it makes my friends think you think they are dumb". It only took that sentence to cause me to go out of my way to make people more comfortable in my presence by stiving to become more like the norm. It took a lot for me to adopt those changes.
For me submission is not just making my mate happy. It is making my mate happy and content regardless of the effort it might take me to achieve it. This is a need beyond my control. Normal people do things because they want to please. I do things because I cannot stop myself.
That is why I am very gaurded about to whom I submit. Once I am there I am unable to stop myself from doing what ever it takes.
That is not normal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

How does one fit in as a submissive though? Isn't making the life of your mate easier something all people should do in relationships? I'm not nitpicking, I really am trying to get a feel for what you see as the distinction of who is a submissive and who isn't for you. I know it's not that easily defined which is why it's a difficult OP to word.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 8:32:35 PM

sublizzie

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I actually journalled about this today. Here is the first paragraph which I think may be apropo:

'What does it mean to be a submissive/slave? It all depends on the person. Some people see it as a masochistic role where they get beat a lot. Some people see it as being a bondage role where they get tied up. Some people see it as doing service for another. Some people expect sex. Some people do not. Each person is uniquely different from every other under the "submissive" tent.'

I understand the endorphin rush of being at the receiving end of a sadist's "play". I enjoy the endorphins that get released but that doesn't mean I'm a masochist. If there were no endorphins I would still submit to that "play" because I get off on *submitting*. It's who I am. It's what I do. It's only been since I've been actively participating in my local "community" that I've learned to protect myself and not submit to everyone. I've quit submitting to the world at large and started picking and choosing people who can be trusted to appropriately use my submissiveness, which includes sadists who enjoy "playing" with me.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 9:09:20 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Thanks Whiplash, in that instance where the sub is bossing the dom around if it's not your dynamic, but observed, theoretically, are you making an assumption based on role of their expected behavior? I mean who knows, maybe it's an offday, maybe the guy fucked her mom yesterday and she's rather rightfully pissed off. I'm making extreme examples, I'm not poking fun, merely trying to point out, isn't it still having an expectation of someone based on role when they are not in a dynamic with you?

If I observe repeating patterns over a period of time, I'm much more likely to call bullshit on it. Yes, it is based on some base line expectations of what I myself hold regarding D/s relationships. Mind you, she might be bossing him around because he wants her to be his brutal bitch reminder service. In that case, the crystal ain't so clear.

Reality being reality, is that even D/s relationships have real life moments of falling short of idealisms.

It's really difficult to judge how two people should or should not conduct themselves with one another at times, let along try to call the "ain't submissive" or "ain't Dominant" card on it. Most of the "ain't (insert label)" card playing that goes down threatens to bury the real issue(s) or problem(s) going on.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 6/21/2010 9:11:20 PM >

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 9:13:35 PM

SamanthaQ

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For me personally a submissive man is a man who is WILLING to submit to me and who WANTS to submit to me. Maybe he'll resist but in the end he wants to lose.

I prefer submissive men who aren't submissive to all dommes and who aren't submissive in their everyday lives.

I am not interested in most kinky submissive men because I don't like THEIR defination of submission. I don't want a man to throw himself at me. I want to capture a man and seduce him, using his fetishes against him, and make him my Bitch.

That's what submission (and submissive) means to me.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 9:20:38 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

But slaves I see as having submissive personalities since they choose to surrender always.

There are many slaves who do not have submissive personalities.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 9:40:44 PM

juliaoceania

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I am not submissive until someone brings that out in me, and then it is an agreement I have with that particular person as to what they expect and need... if it fits with me, great... if not, well Houston we have a problem....

So far I haven't went out into the "community", although there is one here... and the reason why is because I don't think that by being in "domly" company I will get all mushy and become submissive... I don't fly like that. I have to feel a connection based on many things...

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 10:10:04 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

what does the word submissive mean to you

it describes this slave's personality, as well as her preferred relationship role and sexual orientation. plenty of folks are under the misguided perception that there is only One True Way...when there are at least three that this slave perceives when folks talk about their experiences with submission:
some folks have submissive personalities and their submission is expressed to just about everyone/thing that crosses their paths.
some folks don't have submissive personalities, but choose submissive as the way they relate to their relationship partner.
some folks submit only during intimate/sexual encounters (popularly referred to as "bottoming" by many).

quote:

What does it mean for someone to be submissive in the larger sense of the word for you personally?

it could mean they are describing their personality, preferred relationship orientation, sexual role, or any combination of the three...this slave would have to ask them specifically, since "submissive" isn't just perceived in One True Way by everyone.

quote:

Does your personal definition leave room for reality?

it's based on this slave's perceptions and experiences throughout the course of her real life, as well as what she has learned from others who consider themselves to be submissive, so...yes, she thinks it's pretty realistic.

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 10:20:46 PM

AQuietSimpleMan

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It means nothing other than what it is.

My view on it is as simple as my view on a Movie. Not all movies are alike but we call all of them Movies. Occasionally someone wants to get a wild hair up there ass and say NO This is a FILM, when in reality it is a Movie they just feel very strongly about making it something special as they describe it to others.

Sure some Movies are Dramas, some are comedeys, some are Actions, Some are Romance. Then you have variations of all of them and they can even be defined down further to GENERE. Not all Horror Movies are Zombie Movies and not all Zombie Movies are Horror movies, but know know what you are looking at Zombie Movies the Majority of them are Horrors. It doesn't mean all of them are.

Not all Comedy's are Romantic Comedy's but you know when you see one what it is. Some movies are Chick Flicks, some are Shoot'em'up's................

In the end knowing what the movie is doesn't tell you if you are going to like it or not.... You have to FUCKING WATCH IT!!!

So Submissives are like Movies to me. I like LOTS of different types and am willing to take a chance on ones that I might not like, but in the end I really have no idea until I spend some time with it.

QSM

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 10:24:43 PM

leadership527

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OK, as I read further, I got where you were going with this Laurell.

Submissive: Someone who enjoys bottoming in kinky sexual acts.
Submissive (orientation): Someone who chooses to submit within the context of their intimate relationships for reasons of secondary gain.
Submissive (personality): Someone who just approaches the world from a submissive stance.

I see all three of those as "submissives" although only the 3rd type works for me as a slave.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 10:43:00 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Submissive (orientation): Someone who chooses to submit within the context of their intimate relationships for reasons of secondary gain.

What is does "secondary gain" mean to you....

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 10:44:47 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
What is does "secondary gain" mean to you....

It means that they have reasons for submitting that are good and compelling to them and so they do.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: What does "submissive" mean to you? - 6/21/2010 10:46:47 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
What is does "secondary gain" mean to you....
It means that they have reasons for submitting that are good and compelling to them and so they do.

Hmmmm.... you mean it isn't a natural transition.... like they sit and think "I have this good reason to submit"...

That isn't how I experience my orientation.

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