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RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 12:52:43 PM

CreativeDominant

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Interesting thread. I have thoughts and feelings that are not very nice sometimes...in fact, they get downright brutal. That doesn't mean I act upon them or ever will. That comes down to self-control and my own moral/ethical code. I think that I, like a great many people, am able to step back and look at those things and process them...applying morals, circumstances, reality, etc... in a manner that allows them to occupy certain parts of my heart/mind/soul as appropriate and move on. Do the thoughts sometimes consume me? Sure, just as any good daydream will. Do they become an obsession? No...I've yet to damage my life or someone else's over actually acting on those thoughts or allowing them to blot out other, more sensible thought.

Our minds and hearts and souls can be very busy places. I am writing this with my thoughts surrounding this. I may think about it for awhile when I leave here...or I may go over tonight's patient schedule in my head...or I may fantasize about some submissive on here or about a past submissive. As JUST an example, I could be talking to sexyred and feeling what I feel towards her and then later, be talking to a submissive from my past. The place that sexyred has in my heart and/or mind and/or soul is not the same place that the submissive from the past occupies and so I would go to that place to deal with the past submissive. My ex might call tonight and I would go to that place in my heart/mind/soul that is reserved for her. I might have a cycle of those thoughts and/or feelings going. How much of my time one thing alone will take up is unknowable. It might be 30 seconds. If I am in bed, a fantasy before I go to sleep might take 30 minutes. If I am dealing with someone face to face or voice to voice...doesn't really matter to me which one...I will concentrate on that person and for awhile after I speak to/interact with them. Gradually, other thoughts and feelings about other things come into play.

For me, ALMOST nothing I think/feel is taboo once it has been processed. Not having control over it or letting it consume me or letting it harm others... intentionally... is.

(in reply to BKSir)

Post #: 41

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 2:23:26 PM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
... snip ...
kidnapping Lady GaGa and turning her into a sex slave
... snip ...

Oh crap - is masturbating nightly about kidnapping Lady GaGa and turning her into a sex slave taboo?

I am hoist by my own petard.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 42

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 2:25:15 PM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I understand your point, but I still find nothing taboo in a thought vs. an action. Even if someone was jacking off to snuff films daily, as long as they never act it out, I am fine.

Oh I'm with you that the "acting it out" line is pretty key

quote:

I am not saying I would DATE that dude, but he or she is perfectly within their rights to free thought.

Grin - so not a klaxon, but perhaps a little red light?

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 43

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 2:35:09 PM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KariCloud

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I really do agree with the sentiment in the first para - but still, have reservations about the second - the occasional "snuff fantasy" (not that I've ever had anything even resembling this) may be "sorta ok" but nightly jacking off to snuff porn is a little... let's say "outre"....

How is nightly jerking off to fake snuff any different or worse than nightly participation in sexual ageplay? In one, if it were not fake, people are being killed. In the other, if it were not fake, innocent children are scarred for life. Personally, I find the second one to be the bigger evil, I think there are worse things than death. But either, if faked between consensual adults, shouldn't be any more of a problem.

Unless you're willing to allow others to censor your thoughts, including those who say everything we do here is wrong, then you judging someone else's fantasies is hypocritical.

Hmm... there are lots of ageplay threads out there - so the nature of ageplay is up for debate (I for one don't think it is necessarily associated with paedophilia at all). But - if a person were jacking off nightly to pictures of underage kids... then I'd wouldn't just pop that into the outre category - I'd report them to the law.

I'm not sure I understand your point about censorship, since I didn't mention censorship at all - I gave my personal view on a hypothetical example. I wouldn't censor the thoughts of someone who jacked of nightly to snuff (although I think that owning snuff porn may well be illegal) nor would I say "they're going to kill someone".

But I don't think I'd be super comfy leaving them in charge of a vulnerable sub either.....

(in reply to KariCloud)

Post #: 44

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 3:04:54 PM

Nineveh

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The distinction between snuff and pedophilia is an interesting one. Both are obviously completely and absolutely not ok to do for real. ageplay, which is not the same as imaginary pedo, is considered ok, in many cases. Pedo fantasies however are considerably more taboo than snuff ones. A simple story about sex with a child is not just illegal, it's very illegal and can get the writer put in jail for a long time in many nations. Why is this when a story about raping someone and killing her as you do is ok?

To me thoughts are always ok, actions often are not. I still feel guilty for my snuff and rape fantasies sometimes (for some reason they are two distinct things for me, the snuff victims are usually consentual, but that's a completely different topic) I'd feel even more guilty if I found myself fantasizing about a child. However I am not going to judge someone else for fantasizing about children.

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 45

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 3:05:22 PM

sunshinemiss

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Hello everyone,
There are taboos - yes there are. Society provides us with taboos against feelings and thoughts that are detrimental to the society as a whole. For example, incest between adults that could bring about children does not really harm the adults involved, but it can have disastrous consequences on the society eventually (royalty being a prime example). Generally speaking, taboos of feelings and thoughts allow people some measure of calm for the society, the group, the family. Is it right or wrong? That's a different debate.

By its very definition, a taboo is about *SOCIETY*, not about our own individual standards. A myriad of feelings and thoughts are taboo. Of course they are. Do we accept those taboos? Do we repspond to them? Do we own up to them? It would depend. There is deep seated delineation due to taboos. Taboos are put in place generally because of perceved protection of the society. Breaking those taboos, even in the interest of the individual people, can have devastating consequences.

Taboos have a purpose. It takes a strong person to go against the grain of society, to swim upstream. It helps to create an *alternative* community to live within a different set of norms with different taboos. This is why people of like mind live together. I mean, all those Mormons aren't in Utah by chance. There are enclaves of the Amish in Lancaster (Ohio and Pennsylvnia), neighborhoods are self-segregated for a reason. Heck even Stockholm Syndrome is based on the segragation of a group with completely different norms and taboos.

Yes, feelings and thoughts are taboo. It is feelings and thoughts that lead to action. Does it stop people from having those thoughts and feelings? No, but it is the resulting shame and guilt that curb the action.

Best,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 46

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 3:07:19 PM

sunshinemiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

The distinction between snuff and pedophilia is an interesting one. Both are obviously completely and absolutely not ok to do for real. ageplay, which is not the same as imaginary pedo, is considered ok, in many cases. Pedo fantasies however are considerably more taboo than snuff ones. A simple story about sex with a child is not just illegal, it's very illegal and can get the writer put in jail for a long time in many nations. Why is this when a story about raping someone and killing her as you do is ok?

You know I have the same issue about that absurd Megan's Law. A guy who is caught taking a leak in the woods is on the list, but a known serial killer isn't? What nonsense is that?

How is it that the manifestation of our "taboo" - laden, puritanical, judgmental, litigious society would villify a guy who needs to pee and ignore the one who murders? It boggles the mind.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 6/24/2010 3:11:38 PM >

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to Nineveh)

Post #: 47

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 4:33:18 PM

BKSir

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You hit the nail in the head in your own question Sunny. Puritanical. This country was founded by Puritans, and they've barely left in over 200 years. Showing someone on tv getting his head splattered under the tire of a semi? No problem!

A PEENOR!? OH GOD! WE'RE ALL GOING TO BURN!

*headdesk*

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 48

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 5:26:49 PM

cassandria

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I've had some incredibly illegal...decidedly unethical....definitely taboo...and downright delicious fantasies running amok through my mind.

I figure that's a good place for them to stay

Do I feel guilt over it? I think guilt is by and large, a wasted emotion.

I'd much rather analyze it - later - and if possible, talk/share it with someone who doesn't judge, but rather has similar thoughts on occasion. It's good to be reminded that being human puts one in good company.

(in reply to BKSir)

Post #: 49

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 6:47:22 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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I remember hitting up the magazine racks at stores when I was kid, some of the stuff in those true detective mags really turned me on. I can recall a few times leaving the rack with an awkward hard on that I needed to readjust to walk right.

I remember one time after reading a rather erotic kidnapping and going through the checkout afterwards, I was eyeing up the cashier thinking some Dark Wicked thoughts about... Ummmm.. (I'm certain you guys can fill in the blank here). Then again I was a young and pure and innocent, barely a teenager.

I blame it all on those damn true story detective mags.. lol.

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(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 50

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 9:00:13 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
To be honest, I'd come to assume that most or even all dominants had at least the occasional non-consensual fantasy about something nasty, if not actually violent. To me, that's the equivalent of a submissive wanting to forced - and I'm damned sure a lot of us toy with that idea.

I think this is true for most people in general, Dom/sub/vanilla/switch/etc.. However it's not the kind of stuff people feel comfortable about sharing with others or talking about.

I think the key is to accept these things are being normal, long as you don't cross over fully to "the darkside". Some of the things we do, are after all driven by this, and we engage in activities with consentual partners in a manner to not cause any true harm, or have any true harm done to us. (mind you it's a little fuzzy at times regarding this even).

I think it's important to acknowlege these things in yourself, as well as acknowledge it's stuff we are in control of and it does not control us.

Then again, this is my own take on things.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 51

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/24/2010 9:21:44 PM

KariCloud

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Hmm... there are lots of ageplay threads out there - so the nature of ageplay is up for debate (I for one don't think it is necessarily associated with paedophilia at all). But - if a person were jacking off nightly to pictures of underage kids... then I'd wouldn't just pop that into the outre category - I'd report them to the law.

I'm not sure I understand your point about censorship, since I didn't mention censorship at all - I gave my personal view on a hypothetical example. I wouldn't censor the thoughts of someone who jacked of nightly to snuff (although I think that owning snuff porn may well be illegal) nor would I say "they're going to kill someone".

But I don't think I'd be super comfy leaving them in charge of a vulnerable sub either.....

I went a step past the conversation's question regarding "some thoughts are bad," with censorship, yes. But isn't that more than a little expected? If we start labeling pure thoughts in someone's head as good or bad, then yes, we're heading towards censorship of thoughts. Essentially: "Some thoughts are ok to have, others are not ok to have and you better not think those bad thoughts." This is where I really feel "good" and "bad" designations go too far and encroach onto personal freedoms, the freedom of one's own mind.

I know ageplay itself is common here, and much of it isn't pretend pedophilia. That's why I specified sexual ageplay, which very much is pretend pedophilia, no if's about it.

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 52

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/25/2010 1:04:07 AM

WestBaySlave

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If I'd done even half the things I think on a daily basis, there would be a trail of corpses right across the country. And that's not even getting into anything sexual - that's just the revenge fantasies! None of which I plan on acting on.

Just about everything that one guy can do to another I've thought of in a sexual context, including many horrible and unethical things. It's not a lack of empathy, either. I had rape fantasies growing up, and found the idea hot. At one point I was raped, and not in a play sense, and it was awful and not something I'd ever want repeated. Guess what? Still have rape fantasies. The reality may be awful, but the lizard-brain side of me that triggers arousal knows no taboos.

Having a very clear division between fantasy and reality is all that's needed, in my opinion. Your mind is your own playground.

(in reply to joey46)

Post #: 53

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/25/2010 4:43:50 AM

DesFIP

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Feelings aren't facts. You don't have to do anything with them except acknowledge you have them and then continue acting in an appropriate way.

It is no more shameful to enjoy reading a police report and having a sexual feeling than it is to watch a slasher movie and enjoy it. As long as you aren't going to do anything wrong, accept them, file them away, and move on.

And know that you are not the only one to have these feelings. Others do too.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!

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Post #: 54

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/25/2010 7:55:23 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cassandria

I've had some incredibly illegal...decidedly unethical....definitely taboo...and downright delicious fantasies running amok through my mind.

I figure that's a good place for them to stay

Do I feel guilt over it? I think guilt is by and large, a wasted emotion.

I'd much rather analyze it - later - and if possible, talk/share it with someone who doesn't judge, but rather has similar thoughts on occasion. It's good to be reminded that being human puts one in good company.

I like the way you describe your thoughts...~smile~...echoes myself but your way of putting it notches it a step higher.

Like you, I too like to analyze thoughts and feelings and share but a person does have to be careful...sometimes the one you are sharing with can be completely turned off when you did not expect them to be and sometimes, they don't enjoy introspection as much as you might.

(in reply to cassandria)

Post #: 55

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/25/2010 1:15:24 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I wouldn't censor the thoughts of someone who jacked of nightly to snuff (although I think that owning snuff porn may well be illegal) nor would I say "they're going to kill someone".

But I don't think I'd be super comfy leaving them in charge of a vulnerable sub either.....

The nightly routine would bother me, a lot. Because that's getting into obsession territory, paraphilia being next in line. Occasionally, after a disturbingly hot movie is okay, but nightly I would draw the line at also.

Since if this is the only thing that can get you turned on, when will the fantasy not be enough and you'll be moved to make it real?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 56

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/25/2010 2:53:36 PM

MsMillgrove

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Why would the therapists, as some have suggested, have to "do" something with their feelings of shame? What's to analize?

Feelings of shame over inappropriate arousal are the brain's way of warning--"uh oh.. don't go there."
It's a safety feature.

Feeling ashamed, because you got turned on by reading a police report, seems like a perfectly healthy, normal response to me.

Momentary reaction of shame isn't a confirmation that you're an evil person or likely to act on your thoughts.
Just a warning signal, reminding you that your values don't support injury, non-consent, or criminal actions.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 57

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/25/2010 3:03:12 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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Ideally, I understand what most people are saying. I'd like to say that thoughts aren't taboo, only actions. Realistically, however, if I knew someone was having fantasies about UM's, there's no way I'd let them be alone or anywhere near mine. It wouldn't matter if they had never acted on their fantasies.

I had a very, VERY bad experience with someone whos fantasy became dysfunctional to the point they couldn't function unless doing what they fantasized about. I never want to be in that position again. I don't know how one can avoid it, but still.

I wouldn't want to try and legislate it, but there ya have it. I guess I'm not among the non-judgemental crowd.

(in reply to MsMillgrove)

Post #: 58

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/25/2010 7:45:45 PM

BKSir

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From: Salt Lake City, UT
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I'm starting to wonder if the terms 'fantasies' and 'obsessions' aren't getting confused for one another. A fantasy is simply that, a thought. It could be as fleeting as a butterfly. An obsession is the thing that tends to have the potential to turn dangerous. I saw someone wearing a yellow dress shirt, brown tie, silver helmet riding an olive green scooter (true story), and thought for a couple minutes about pulling him off the bike, teaching him about colour coordinating and taking his scooter just for punishment. It was a momentary fantasy, lasted maybe 2 minutes, tops.

It was not, however, an obsession, like my wish to find that evil witch in the gingerbread house and give her Hannah Montana as a christmas gift.

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

Post #: 59

RE: Are Any Feelings Taboo, or Just Actions? - 6/25/2010 10:14:47 PM

Nineveh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I wouldn't censor the thoughts of someone who jacked of nightly to snuff (although I think that owning snuff porn may well be illegal) nor would I say "they're going to kill someone".

But I don't think I'd be super comfy leaving them in charge of a vulnerable sub either.....

The nightly routine would bother me, a lot. Because that's getting into obsession territory, paraphilia being next in line. Occasionally, after a disturbingly hot movie is okay, but nightly I would draw the line at also.

Since if this is the only thing that can get you turned on, when will the fantasy not be enough and you'll be moved to make it real?

There's a big difference between what you masturbate to and "the only thing that can turn you on" Hopefully masturbation is not the only sex one is getting. Now if you start having trouble getting aroused for regular sex because it doesn't line up with your fantasies, then there's a problem.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 60

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