RE: Did Jesus die in vain ?

RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (Full Version)

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DarlingSavage -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 8:32:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff The lord works in mysterious ways. Or failing that. One can not know the mind of God. Prayers go unanswered?

GotSteel -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 8:38:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff The lord works in mysterious ways. He consistently acts as though he isn't there, nothing mysterious about that.

LadyCimarron -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 9:32:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Take a second look, Lady C. Jesus was preaching the End of Days and seperated the sheep from the wolves, the least from the most, the first from the last, the saved from the condemned. It wasn't all love and roses yanno. True, but for the first time in history the least, the last and the condemned were not determined by money, social status or religious dogma.. His Ministry was to and for beggars, lepers, thieves, prostitutes; the rejects of society; the ones the church had written off as hellbound. "the spirit of the Lord is upon me for He hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor." Luke 4:18 Matt. 20:16 "the last shall be first and the first shall be last." He didn't condemn the woman caught in adultery, he condemned the self righteous men who tried to kill her. He chose the poor widow with 2 mites over the rich man who gave tons of money to the church. See the poor were not even considered worthy of the church because they couldn't afford to pay the high offerings. Anyone pronounced a sinner was also banned from the church and often their children and grandchildren. Those are the ones Jesus wanted. He wanted no part of religion and openly denounced it and the leaders of it. He called the religious leaders dead and unclean in Matt 23:27."woe unto you scribes and pharisees. hypocrites!" That entire rant he did in that chapter was to tear down religious dogma. So make no mistake he did come to separate sheep from wolves, but the wolves were the religious ones leading the church. He called the church leaders snakes and vipers and told them that they would not escape hell. (Matt. 23:33) These radical views are what got him killed. I am convinced they would get him killed today too.

Marini -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 9:34:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff The lord works in mysterious ways. Or failing that. One can not know the mind of God. I love this answer! That is the point, that is why I ignore 95% of these "threads". If you are a mortal on this earth, you CANNOT ever really know the mind of the GODDESS/GOD. IT is impossible. I also enjoy all the mere mortals that claim they don't "believe that GOD exists" yet spend a lot, and I do mean a lot of time trying to figure GODDESS/GOD out. Like tony the tiger said...."it's greatttttttttttttttttttttt!" I see many naysayers as little tiny fleas out in the universe, trying to use their pea brains to attempt to undestand the "cosmos". There is "a power, a force, a SUPREME BEING/or BEINGS" so much greater than man, it is hard for a human brain to understand how great GODDESS is, much less even attempt to understand how the GODDESS thinks. Lately, I don't find too much more amusing than pea brains that even think they could POSSIBLY have the brain matter, in their mere mortal/flea brains to have any idea how our CREATOR/GODDESS thinks. They have no real power, and it means or changes, NOTHING. I love those that have all the answers, yet really have no clue. It is great to be a "Believer", I can't imagine living my life as a non-Believer. As always/to each their own. [:D]

DarlingSavage -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 9:55:27 PM)
quote: I love this answer! That is the point, that is why I ignore 98% of these "chats". If you are a mortal on this earth, you CANNOT ever really know the mind of the GODDESS/GOD. I also enjoy all the mere mortals that claim they don't "believe that GOD exists" yet spend a lot, and I do mean a lot of time trying to figure GODDESS/GOD out. Like tony the tiger said...."it's greatttttttttttttttttttttt!" I see many naysayers as little tiny fleas out in the universe, trying to use their pea brains to attempt to undestand the "cosmos". There is someone so much greater than man, it is hard for a human brain to understand how great GODDESS is, much less even attempt to understand how the GODDESS thinks. Lately, I don't find too much more amusing than pea brains that even think they could POSSIBLY have the brain matter, in their mere mortal/flea brains to have any idea how our CREATOR/GODDESS thinks. I love those that have all the answers, yet really have no clue. It is great to be a "Believer", I can't imagine living my life as a non-Believer. As always/to each their own. You've got it all wrong! There is only ONE path to heaven and that is through accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour and lord or else. That's why I don't like christians. Well, some of my best friends are born agains, but still, I always know when I'm with them that they've got it in the back of their head that I'm going to hell cause I'm not saved. As long as they're not trying to convert me, I'm ok with it, but when they start trying to save my soul, that's when the sparks fly.

Marini -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 9:58:40 PM)
Darling you will never here me tell someone what the right way or the right path, is. I personally have always thought, there are a lot of "paths". Again, I am not in a position to "know", but I have always felt that there has to be more than just one way. If you must label me, label me as a Spiritual person, I like that label. I am a very Spiritual person, that is a faithful Believer, and nothing and certainly no "mortal" on on this earth can sway/influence/ or change that. [;)] If I had all the answers, I would not be a mere pea brain mortal. I also would not be sitting here on earth, typing on a computer. I enjoy reading what "mortals" that have all the answers, have to say. lol

LadyCimarron -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:07:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage You've got it all wrong! There is only ONE path to heaven and that is through accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour and lord or else. That's why I don't like christians. Well, some of my best friends are born agains, but still, I always know when I'm with them that they've got it in the back of their head that I'm going to hell cause I'm not saved. As long as they're not trying to convert me, I'm ok with it, but when they start trying to save my soul, that's when the sparks fly. who says the one path is through accepting Jesus as your saviour? JESUS didn't say that. Who even said that the path leads to "heaven"? Jesus didn't say that either.

Marini -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:09:34 PM)
LadyC you keep up the good fight. May the force be with you! [;)] I learned a long time ago, mortals know everything. Especially mortals on collarme. They even know how our CREATOR/and or CREATORS think. lol May the GODDESS Bless you lady. PEACE and Blessings!

LanceHughes -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:16:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron who says the one path is through accepting Jesus as your saviour? JESUS didn't say that. <snipped> John 14:6 - Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron <snipped> Who even said that the path leads to "heaven"? Jesus didn't say that either. Matt.19:21 - Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Marini -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:20:08 PM)
pssstt.... Lance you can be a "Believer" and not believe any/and or everything that is written in the Bible. Many of us know for a fact the Bible has been tampered with. Many Believers believe there is more than "one way". I was just invited to visit a very spiritual non-denominational church led by a gay pastor, I look forward to going, and I bet I feel the spirit in there.

LanceHughes -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:24:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Jesus was a Rabbi Please OH PLEASE, OH PLEASE tell me where it is said that Jesus held the position of Rabbi? I am not disagreeing with you, like I said I don't actually believe he existed, I just want to know where it was ever noted that Jesus ACTUALLY Held the level of Rabbi. Just list the Chapter and Verse is all I ask. Mostly because as I understand the bible, Jesus was primarily Anti-religious, finding ALL religions to be flawed because you could worship his father ANYWHERE no house was needed. QSM Of course, translations vary on the exact word that is then translated into our modern word Rabbi. But, just for "fun," here's a list from just one web-page. Your milage WILL vary. And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” And he said, “Rabbi, what is it?” (Luke 7:40) A lawyer asked him a question to test him: “Rabbi, what is the greatest commandment in the Torah?” (Matthew 22:35-36) And behold, a [rich] man came up to him and said, “Rabbi, what good thing must I do to have eternal life?” (Matthew 19:16) And someone in the crowd said to him, “Rabbi, order my brother to divide the inheritance with me.” (Luke 12:13) And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, “Rabbi, rebuke your disciples.” (Luke 19:39) Some of the Sadducees came up to him…and they asked him, saying, “Rabbi….” (Luke 20:27-28)

DarlingSavage -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:31:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron quote: ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage You've got it all wrong! There is only ONE path to heaven and that is through accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour and lord or else. That's why I don't like christians. Well, some of my best friends are born agains, but still, I always know when I'm with them that they've got it in the back of their head that I'm going to hell cause I'm not saved. As long as they're not trying to convert me, I'm ok with it, but when they start trying to save my soul, that's when the sparks fly. who says the one path is through accepting Jesus as your saviour? JESUS didn't say that. Who even said that the path leads to "heaven"? Jesus didn't say that either. You so missed my point. It went right over your head! Next time, you should try reading the whole statement instead of the first couple words.

LanceHughes -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:34:43 PM)
Marini; LadyC asked where it says that Jesus said certain things. If not the Bible (corrupted as it may be) then where else is Jesus quoted? "Nowhere," he said in his best rhetorical voice. MY answer to "Did Jesus die in vain?" is really quite simple. Nope, he did NOT die in vain because he never died because he never existed. (That should be good for at least 10 or 15 pages.)

LadyCimarron -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:37:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LanceHughes quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron who says the one path is through accepting Jesus as your saviour? JESUS didn't say that. <snipped> John 14:6 - Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron <snipped> Who even said that the path leads to "heaven"? Jesus didn't say that either. Matt.19:21 - Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. He didn't say accepting him as your lord and savior. He was saying through his teachings. (or words as he called them) Matt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: You know like when you college professor tells you, "you will not get to graduate until you go through me." He's talking about his TEACHINGS, not his person. Anytime Jesus was asked how to gain eternal life he told them "keep the commandments" Matt. 19:17 It was paul who introduced the concept of accepting jesus as your savior as being the way to salvation Roman 10:12- and it was completely contrary to what Jesus himself taught. Yes your TREASURE shall be in heaven, but not YOU. He never offered a physical place called heaven. He offered "the kingdom of Heaven" Matt 5:19 and said that "the kingdom is within you" Luke 17:21

LadyCimarron -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:41:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron quote: ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage You've got it all wrong! There is only ONE path to heaven and that is through accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour and lord or else. That's why I don't like christians. Well, some of my best friends are born agains, but still, I always know when I'm with them that they've got it in the back of their head that I'm going to hell cause I'm not saved. As long as they're not trying to convert me, I'm ok with it, but when they start trying to save my soul, that's when the sparks fly. who says the one path is through accepting Jesus as your saviour? JESUS didn't say that. Who even said that the path leads to "heaven"? Jesus didn't say that either. You so missed my point. It went right over your head! Next time, you should try reading the whole statement instead of the first couple words. No I didn't miss your point. I know you were being sarcastic. I was addressing that the very reason you don't like Christians is also the very reason why I don't like them either. Erroneous teachings.

LanceHughes -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:45:48 PM)
And to continue the Salvation through Christ nonsense, we're going to throw in the (apparent) contradiction of Salvation through Good Works. Now, don't tell me it's some mish-mash of both. You must pick one or the other. Nonsense, nonsense, nonsense..... g'nite all. Oh, and yes, I do have faith. Faith that the sun will rise. I jest and repudiate that statement. I know for a fact (NO faith nor belief) that the earth will rotate, causing the appearance of the sun rising. If y'all want to have faith that will happen, I'd like you to explain what you mean that is different than my knowledge that it will happen. (That alone is good for 10 pages at least - and a drift as well.) You mean you believe the sun will rise, but you're not sure? Silly rabbits.... what a fearful way to live your life. Praying that the sun will come back at Easter time.... or more precisely, celebrating the FACT of the Spring Equinox. Etc..... as I said above, g'nite. (Local time = 11:45 PM)

LadyCimarron -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/27/2010 10:49:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LanceHughes I know for a fact (NO faith nor belief) that the earth will rotate, causing the appearance of the sun rising. If y'all want to have faith that will happen, I'd like you to explain what you mean that is different than my knowledge that it will happen. Simple: There is no difference (That alone is good for 10 pages at least - and a drift as well.) You mean you believe the sun will rise, but you're not sure? Silly rabbits.... what a fearful way to live your life. Praying that the sun will come back at Easter time.... or more precisely, celebrating the FACT of the Spring Equinox. Etc..... as I said above, g'nite. (Local time = 11:45 PM)

DarlingSavage -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/28/2010 12:15:22 AM)
quote: No I didn't miss your point. I know you were being sarcastic. I was addressing that the very reason you don't like Christians is also the very reason why I don't like them either. Erroneous teachings. I see, I missed your point. Woops.

LadyCimarron -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/28/2010 6:46:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LanceHughes And to continue the Salvation through Christ nonsense, we're going to throw in the (apparent) contradiction of Salvation through Good Works. Now, don't tell me it's some mish-mash of both. You must pick one or the other. Or you could reject both. Jesus (if he did exist) never said either. Both sides of that were arguments put forth by Paul and James. BTW- Jesus was not only quoted in the Bible, He also quoted in the Qur'an, the gnostic gosples, the dead sea scrolls, and The book of Mormon.

vincentML -> RE: Did Jesus die in vain ? (6/28/2010 7:35:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Take a second look, Lady C. Jesus was preaching the End of Days and seperated the sheep from the wolves, the least from the most, the first from the last, the saved from the condemned. It wasn't all love and roses yanno. True, but for the first time in history the least, the last and the condemned were not determined by money, social status or religious dogma.. His Ministry was to and for beggars, lepers, thieves, prostitutes; the rejects of society; the ones the church had written off as hellbound. "the spirit of the Lord is upon me for He hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor." Luke 4:18 Matt. 20:16 "the last shall be first and the first shall be last." He didn't condemn the woman caught in adultery, he condemned the self righteous men who tried to kill her. He chose the poor widow with 2 mites over the rich man who gave tons of money to the church. See the poor were not even considered worthy of the church because they couldn't afford to pay the high offerings. Anyone pronounced a sinner was also banned from the church and often their children and grandchildren. Those are the ones Jesus wanted. He wanted no part of religion and openly denounced it and the leaders of it. He called the religious leaders dead and unclean in Matt 23:27."woe unto you scribes and pharisees. hypocrites!" That entire rant he did in that chapter was to tear down religious dogma. So make no mistake he did come to separate sheep from wolves, but the wolves were the religious ones leading the church. He called the church leaders snakes and vipers and told them that they would not escape hell. (Matt. 23:33) These radical views are what got him killed. I am convinced they would get him killed today too. Excellent and challenging answer, Lady C, but isn't it true that the underlying premise of Jesus' preaching was that the End of Days was near, that the Son of Man (ala the Book of Daniel) would establish a new kingdom on earth and that this would occur within the lifetime of his Disciples, and did he not urge his Disciples to leave (abandon) their families and follow him? So, wasn't his message predicated upon the nutsoid notion that in the new earthly kingdom people would have no disease or hunger and consequently wealth would be useless? And is it not true that as a consequence for preaching the imminent establishment of a new kingdom he was seditious to the Roman rule and executed on that basis? In other words was it not his nominal threat to Empire and not his radicalism in embracing of the poor nor of his contempt for the money changers that was a step over the line?

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