RE: Benefit scroungers ? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:16:39 AM)

quote:

oops...sorry. I didn't think i had to. Physically able to work.


So, does depression count as "unable to work"?


quote:

I do not know him at all. And from his posts, he IS able to work, having been laid off very recently.


He reads as someone depressed to me.... and depression is a real physical illness... it is a physically painful one too...

quote:

I can define it as someone who work work because the job is beneath them, among other ways.


You could, it wouldn't make you right....

I can imagine if I lost a job that I might be bitter about the fallout.

I might get depressed...

Just me, etc.






lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:21:29 AM)

the government pays for my therapy. Thank you government for saving taxpayers extra costs in a recession. Thank you i love you government
kevin




RCdc -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:23:33 AM)

quote:

He reads as someone depressed to me.... and depression is a real physical illness... it is a physically painful one too...


If he is suffering depression, he can get sickness benefit.  This means going to the doctor and being diagnoised, just like anyone with an illness does.

Self diagnosis doesn't cut it. 

the.dark.




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:24:32 AM)

in your case $12,000 extra to your government as gratitude for your present position wouldnt hurt and would help create JOBS, if everyone who can gives $12,000 or more if they are earning more we wont be in the shit we currently are in and people wont be on benefit because surprise surprise, there will be JOBS for people to go to through financial investment of your and other monies who can afford it
kevin




RCdc -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:25:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

the government pays for my therapy. Thank you government for saving taxpayers extra costs in a recession. Thank you i love you government
kevin


And where does the government get it's money to pay for things like therapy, refuse collection and other things they 'pay for'?

the.dark.




juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:25:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

He reads as someone depressed to me.... and depression is a real physical illness... it is a physically painful one too...


If he is suffering depression, he can get sickness benefit.  This means going to the doctor and being diagnoised, just like anyone with an illness does.

Self diagnosis doesn't cut it. 

the.dark.


In this country that isn't how it works... for one you have to have insurance to get diagnosed....






xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:27:22 AM)

She shouldn't have to give ANY extra money to the government as gratitude.
To her parents? Maybe is she feels so inclined.
To her God? Perhaps, if that is how she chooses to give. (if she chooses to give at all.)
If you want to give 30% of your income (or ten or twenty) go ahead. But it's not for you to spend other peoples' money.




juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:33:51 AM)

quote:

If you want to give 30% of your income (or ten or twenty) go ahead. But it's not for you to spend other peoples' money.


Hmmmmmm.... why aren't you addressing where these tax dollars go? They AREN'T GOING TO THE POOR




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:34:00 AM)

Like i say it s called LEADERSHIP AND EXAMPLE. She obviously has no conception of what this entails and neither do You. Would i do it if i had her assets? Yes i would. Because why? Because we are all the same and there are underprivileged who deserve a life just as She does. She was lucky. If she cant and wont accept that then that s Her issue but i have no time for people who feel that because they have earned something , they have no obligation to anyone. Even God when you mention God said if you have much give abundantly, She is in that position now. Yes She does have an obligation to be generous as do others. Its called looking out for your neighbour. Who is your neighbour? Those who are the least well off. Even as it is , i rarely pass beggars by. And i have much less than Her. She has a bigger MORAL obligation to be generous because She has more. And what is a bigger obligation than helping this economy to get back on its feet. So that there are no welfare recipients or much fewer anyway and that Jobs can be created. Im sorry if you have you should give. This is the biggest priority at the minute. Stop thinking of self , start thinking of others for a change
Yes this is addressed to you Ms Asylum
kevin




RCdc -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:34:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

He reads as someone depressed to me.... and depression is a real physical illness... it is a physically painful one too...


If he is suffering depression, he can get sickness benefit.  This means going to the doctor and being diagnoised, just like anyone with an illness does.

Self diagnosis doesn't cut it. 

the.dark.


In this country that isn't how it works... for one you have to have insurance to get diagnosed....





I understand that Julia.  What I am attempting to do is explain that there is a big difference between your country and the UK so you can understand - you cannot judge the system that the OP and that kevin are used to based on the way it is in the US.

In the UK, you don't need insurence.  If you have a disability - whether physical or learning you can claim benefits.  Health care is free.  Diagnosis is free.  The discussion isn't about people who are NOT capable of working, but you keep bringing that up.  There are always people who cannot work due to incapacity, whatever that incapacity may be.  But there are people who are claiming benefits to fund their lifestyle... that includes having more children just because they get more money or better housing.... or having their houses made 'eco friendly' just because they can gain a grant because they are on benefit or because their property houses someone on benefit.  These are not fair, when pensioners (as an example) get their winter fuel payments late or cannot claim for heating assistance because they aren't on benefit yet, may be on the poverty line.

the.dark.




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:36:15 AM)

ok i jest they get it from the Irish taxpayer but it is none of your concern , welfare recipients are not taking your money because you don t live in this jurisdiction
kevin




LadyEllen -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:37:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

in your case $12,000 extra to your government as gratitude for your present position wouldnt hurt and would help create JOBS, if everyone who can gives $12,000 or more if they are earning more we wont be in the shit we currently are in and people wont be on benefit because surprise surprise, there will be JOBS for people to go to through financial investment of your and other monies who can afford it
kevin


I doubt, but might be corrected on this point, that Miss A stuffs her mattress with dollar bills from her work. I would suspect she puts her excess earnings in the bank or into somewhere else where it can be invested to produce a return from where it is then used to fund profitable businesses to employ people, so generating the return she desires.

Giving money to the government does create jobs though. Trouble is these government jobs last only as long as the funding lasts and, not generating any income of their own are subject to cut once funding runs out. The only way real jobs come about is not through "creation" but through economic growth to support them.

The problem we have at the moment, and this is a general western world problem, is that the money we invest is not used to fund domestic businesses but used to gamble on the international markets. A win here produces major returns far in excess of those possible from funding businesses for a few. But as we have also recently seen a loss or series of losses produces major problems for all of us. This is a political problem that we must resolve, for unless we do this methodology will continue and the result will be as we have already seen - domestic business starved of funding and employment opportunities deriving primarily from government paid for from taxation on banks' gambling profits.

E




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:42:29 AM)

Well the responsibility for that is strict regulation and monitoring. Anyone caught gambling on the Stock Market is FIRED without pension. No second chances no nothing, it s far too serious and is costing innocent people employment. Let them take a taste of our medicine when low paid workers do their best but dont achieve targets which is completely outside of their control by the way governed totally by consumer demand they are FIRED, they are not given any chances, so why should compassion be shown to reckless gamblers. Zero tolerance is the only way, it does not matter how long you are in the job how many years of service you have if you gamble with taxpayers money, you are out the door with no financial settlement no golden handshake nothing
kevin




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:45:53 AM)

it would also bring transparency and fairness to the system, people would see that the big guys who do wrong are punished severely, not tolerated, not having their actions swept under the carpet like now but are punished. At the moment there is one rule for the intern on work experience or the person who is there less than a year and another rule for those with long years of service clocked up but who are a liability and are costing other s jobs and livelihoods by their actions. And that s wrong. MORALLY WRONG. MAY THE GAMBLING BANKER ROT IN THE FIRES OF UNENDING TORMENT for the torment and hardship that they have brought innocent individuals. They are a disgrace
kevin




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 8:51:32 AM)

Anaerin you are a rock of common sense. People on this board would do well to read your words particularly those who dis the unemployed. They one day may be unemployed. Life is absolutely insecure. People should never take things for granted or exploit others for their own ends, people should never think because i ve earned this its mine no one else's and i have no obligation to no one. Because one day the worm may turn full circle and they will want compassion when they are unemployed and financially hard up. Compassion that they have singularly failed to give others
kevin




LadyEllen -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 9:08:01 AM)

Its a global economy Kevin. The job of the investment banker is to produce the best returns for his clients. If its apparent that he can get the best returns from gambling on currency, commodities or investing in the Far East, he will do it and if he doesnt he will be fired. He is paid a fortune because he makes fortunes for his clients. If he fails to produce he will be fired, if he fails to keep up with his colleagues he will be fired.

The problem we had, and the problem we now all find ourselves in, (and that includes me too), is that Mr Investment Banker lost his bet. He didnt actually do anything wrong except to fail to understand his product and his market, and this because no one wanted to understand and no one wanted to hear that the Emperor had no clothes. We can be rightfully angry at this failure - it is incompetence of the worst kind, made all the more unforgivable because of the supposed professional status Mr Banker professes.

But our anger is also rightfully directed at those whose failed economic policies, reliance on Mr Banker, enabled the situation to come about as an inevitability through deregulation and failure to enforce what little regulation remained - but then no one wanted the party to end in this demonic pact; banks got huge profits, the tax on them funded government expansion, Joe Public got cheap credit and the notion that things were going well and the investors got good returns. Ultimately we voted for this and continued to vote for it.

The real issue you are pissed off at is the failure, accompanying all this, to promote, through relevant regulatory and incentivising frameworks, private domestic business and provide it with the investment it needed to grow and provide employment at home, in favour of quick, easy and higher yields through gambling on the global markets. And yet in a global marketplace the reality is that this is how things will turn out - our domestic businesses cannot compete with cheap foreign competition so they make poor investments, whilst those low cost foreign markets provide the high returns needed to fund our western lifestyle and aspirations, particularly as these relate to the growing burden of an aging population.

In short the most we can do is reintroduce banking reforms that seek to limit the general damage to our domestic economies of gambling failures and adjust to the situation as best we can. The bottom line is that much of the money used to support our governmental spending on healthcare and welfare benefits comes from the international markets in one way or another, either as returns, taxation on returns or simple borrowing - and that if we took action to remove ourselves from that game then we shouldnt have enough to go round and that pot would be shrinking year by year as our sources of revenue dried up and the burden on them grew.

Its a shitty situation. It pisses me off. But I recognise that there is little I can do about it so its about adjusting to it. Kicking and screaming dont help.

E




RCdc -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 9:15:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

ok i jest they get it from the Irish taxpayer but it is none of your concern , welfare recipients are not taking your money because you don t live in this jurisdiction
kevin


Yes kevin the taxpayer.
And you didnt get what I was trying to tell you before, but that isn't a big surprise kevin.

I am interested though - if you get theraphy, why can you not get some sort of disability benefit?

the.dark.




MissAsylum -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 9:23:38 AM)

hahaha! no concept of it? i suppose i should run this by you again. Age:16, HOMELESS. i slept in a shelter that was co-ed and i couldnt sleep in peace because i was worried about being taken advantage of. Age 17: worked for MINIMUM WAGE with GRATITUDE 48 hours a week while maintaining my status as an honour student and lived in a section 8(goverment assistance) housing project. Graduated #13 out 290 students that year. fast forward 3 years- i have 2 degrees, my OWN house and a new car that I worked for- that i EARNED.i give 10% of my weekly earnings to church, i do nate to the Boys and Girls club of my city, because i know what its like to BE WITHOUT THE BASICS and you dare to sit on your ass behind a computer and pass judgement on me? i took what i can get in life and i didnt bitch about how unfair the government and big companies were- its really pathetic that i had that mind set at 16, meanwhile you are in you 30s and continue to spew "woe is me" at everybody. and yes Kevin- this is directed at YOU.




sirsholly -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 9:34:09 AM)

quote:

Youre missing a vital point though SH -
actually....i was just being a wise-ass by posting something as ridiculous as Kevins high-earning tax.

But i certainly agree complacency is an issue




MissAsylum -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 9:40:36 AM)

and yep LadyE, in the bank.




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