RE: Benefit scroungers ?

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:00:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum i'm not complaining at all. my gripe is that kevin believes i was handed everything and that i should pay the 20% out of moral fiber. Please understand I think Kevin has more screws loose than my currently disabled car. This whole conversation makes little sense because of the vast differences between assistance in the UK, Europe and here in the US. Obviously with the little you divulged about your life, you do know something about the US system. But you managed to get Section 8 housing (which in my area has been "closed" for about 5 years at least), which allowed you to take a lower paying job, and still make the bills because of the assistance that Section 8 gave you. In many rural areas, there are no shelters. The area I live has a small amount of shelter for families with children, there is another type of shelter for women, and nearly nothing at all for men. I applaud you for terminating your Section 8 housing when you no longer needed it, but most continue to receive it long after they no longer qualify (for whatever reason). That's why the waiting list is so long and why it remains closed. There don't seem to be any safeguards in place. As for the taxes, I'm sorry but I find the conversation everyone is having about the percentage of tax they pay to be hysterical. The tax rates they are complaining about not thinking it would be fair for them to pay are the tax rates they are already paying in those income brackets. So yes, it appears that people have no idea what their current tax rate is.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:02:14 PM)
Yes but Kevin is saying there should be an extra whatever percent added on to what we already pay.

juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:06:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Yes but Kevin is saying there should be an extra whatever percent added on to what we already pay. I think what he is saying is he is advocating a graduated tax schedule rather than a flat tax... I do not know how they tax people in the UK, but we have a graduated tax here in the USA, you are already paying more percentage wise than the poorest people if you make over a certain amount each year 40% of people in the USA do not make enough income to pay taxes at all. This is because they are poor. There are many middle income people that would have them pay a flat tax because they resent that the poor do not have to pay taxes when they do.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:23:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not know how they tax people in the UK, but we have a graduated tax here in the USA, you are already paying more percentage wise than the poorest people if you make over a certain amount each year Which is why I keep laughing at the people who list percentages and balk at the idea of ever having to pay them. If they are in those income brackets, they already do! Poor people tend to know where every penny of their money goes. It seems like so many around here have no idea what their tax returns say. And I agree that some people want poor people to pay tax just because they have to. There is no sense to it. These people can barely afford to put food on the table, so take some of what little income they have just because some is taken from you.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:23:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum i'm not complaining at all. my gripe is that kevin believes i was handed everything and that i should pay the 20% out of moral fiber. You shouldn't pay that? Who should be paying the taxes in this country? I asked you before who supports the military, the single largest expense we have as a nation... are the poor supposed to pay for the security you enjoy? Are they supposed to pay for the infrastructure that enables you to make your money? Take Kevin out of the equation, what exactly are you saying? It is MY interpretation that MsA is saying that IF the law did not require it, she does not feel the need to TITHE to the government as Kevin is suggesting. (as an aside, did you know that you can "donate" your tax refund toward the national debt? yepper!)

MissAsylum -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:28:36 PM)
i'm fine with paying taxes, i'm not stranger to them whatsoever. it was his reasoning behind why i should be taxed is where my problem lies.

juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:41:25 PM)
quote: It is MY interpretation that MsA is saying that IF the law did not require it, she does not feel the need to TITHE to the government as Kevin is suggesting. (as an aside, did you know that you can "donate" your tax refund toward the national debt? yepper!) We are experiencing something similar to the Great Depression right now... do you want to know what the difference between this "recession" and the Great Depression? We have a safety net in place. We "tithe" because we could end up like those people who are getting help. Almost every one of us has a family member that needed some sort of assistance, and it is were not for the help they get from government programs, they would have to rely more on us to help them.... maybe you would prefer that, but I would prefer to have a safety net that isn't reliant on extended family... not everyone has parents, siblings, or children... not all of us have that sort of help. We benefited from the system, yet people does not want to pay into it now? Most of us went to taxpayer funded schools, we drive on roads, and she even admitted to receiving housing help. There is nothing that infuriates me more than people who get aid from the system who once they no longer need the help they want to shut the door behind them, or those who justify why they should get aid, but why some other person doesn't "deserve" it. We all need each other to get along in this world... sooner or later we need to go to an emergency room in a public hospital, send our kids to a public university, use drugs that were paid for by taxpayer R&D. This all costs money...Someone has to pay for it. It should be those who most profited from this society and the opportunities it afforded them that should do that paying,... and that means helping out those who need it, because the system has not worked so well for them and that is the cost that we incur to be a functional society... unless you would rather go back to the days of child labor, tenement housing, debtor's prisons, and wandering bands of hobos looking for work and breaking into your house because they are hungry

juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:44:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissAsylum i'm fine with paying taxes, i'm not stranger to them whatsoever. it was his reasoning behind why i should be taxed is where my problem lies. Thanks for clarifying.... Edited my last post because I misunderstood

xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:45:50 PM)
She does pay into it now. Those who make the most do pay the most. But there is no good reason for people to work their butts off only to give half of their hard earned money away. There comes a point that enough is enough. Truly.

juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:46:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx She does pay into it now. Those who make the most do pay the most. But there is no good reason for people to work their butts off only to give half of their hard earned money away. There comes a point that enough is enough. Truly. So who pays for the war in Iraq? It isn't social spending that is bankrupting us, truly

xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 12:52:05 PM)
Well if we're going to argue the entire tax system, that's another thread all together. I was just answering in regard to the original question.

juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 1:09:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Well if we're going to argue the entire tax system, that's another thread all together. I was just answering in regard to the original question. I think it is completely relevant, and I will tell you why. We have a thread about people who use public assistance as a subsistance strategy. We have other people on this thread that claimed that these people should be ashamed, we had another person who advocated kicking people off the system because it was "unsustainable", we have others talking about how they work their ass off to pay taxes, as if those who are on public assistance are the ones to blame for the tax burden that we shoulder... The poor are not the reason we have lots of taxes. It is more rational to get more irritated with the source of the debt instead of blaming those on public assistance for it

Aneirin -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 1:20:26 PM)
I am off work due to long term illness, I have depressive issues for which I am taking medication. The medication is such that it prevents me from doing the only job I am qualified for, that of a lifting equipment engineer, the health warning on the drugs I take says do not operate heavy machinery, drive or be engaged in work where danger of death or injury is a possibility. My job involved me testing and certifying lifting equipment including man riding equipment safe for use, and myself inspecting lifting equipment in use. Yes, I used to scale tower cranes and walk out onto the boom to inspect the pulleys and bearings, all that for 16K per annum and myself being heavily in debt. My redundancy came when due to my condition I point blank refused to carry on with my job for a real fear that I will miss something that would result in the death or injury of others. I was he only lifting engineer for a hundred miles and the company I was with had a problem, do they demand a person with black depression on medication to do their job or do the decent thing and let them go and there find a replacement. The company chose the former, my redundancy was not a surprise and to be very fair, via redundancy I was at once able to access the benefits I needed so that I had the chance to calm down. If it had been the latter, then perhaps I might not be here now, for the thoughts that came when walking out on those booms more than fifteen storeys high. The things that I did then, the thoughts I remember thinking and the feelings I had, now scares me at how close I came for it would have been all too easy to take a wrong step and fall off a boom, or worse cause a situation that meant death or severe injury to others. The medication I am on I feel has altered my body chemistry, because now though largely the depression has subsided, I cannot sanely survive longer than three days without the medication, for the symptoms of withdrawal I know too well, they I feel have become another problem that needs investigaion and with that the fear that the condition now created might need another untested but fit for human consumption drug to counter the problems created and with that more drug problems ad finitum.

lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 1:31:00 PM)
im totally confused where is the thread going. i hope the Moderator end s it soon. We are getting precisely nowhere kevin

Aneirin -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 1:49:36 PM)
Well, I don't know about you, but I am trying to make people understand those that are seen and vaunted to be the root of all evil when it comes to public expenditure are not so evil and if there is blame to be aportioned, then why attack the defenceless, just because a mealy mouthed government thinks it is the right thing to do. Employment, unemployment they are so closely linked as why not be the same, for everyone of us can suffer it if it is we choose to work for others, as when working for others quickly it is becoming that a loyal workforce means nothing if it means more money in the bank. It was once held that the best asset an employer can have is it's workforce who if satisfied will work through thick and thin to promote their employment, but that notion is falling away fast, for employees are fast becoming a modern slave for an employer to do with what they wish, for they know since the unions have been largely eradicated, employees are now unfair game to annoy. Perhaps it is those who are unemployed now are the fore runner of things to come, as industry draws it's purse strings tighter there will be more, and of them the once irrational unemployed haters come home to feel the problem themselves.

MissAsylum -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 2:10:06 PM)
why are you confused kevie? i do believe you started NAME CALLING at one point because i said to keep your 2 cent opinion about me. after i called you out about your judgemental tendacies of those who earn more than you. i feel nothing but sympathy for people who cant make ends meet but work their butts off day in and day out or may be suffering at the hands of illness which barrs them from work, but none for those who dont try and in a sense drains what little support the government may give them. or for those who sit at home and do nothing but complain(but to each his own). sorry that the collective opinion of you and your thoughts is that you a quite a few cards shy of a deck, but that is no reason to end a thread.

lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 2:33:12 PM)
i know but some things make me angry. i am upset and angry and threads like benefit scroungers makes me angry even the idea that people on benefit are labelled scroungers makes me very upset, im just upset, i agree with anaerin i think those who have the least are exploited by employers , employees are treated like slaves now and that shouldnt be. kevin

juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 2:35:37 PM)
They did a study, the less people make, the more they are supervised and controlled in their work... this has been true in my experience.

lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 2:40:47 PM)
Yes and in mine too. i think people are supervised to death and unfairly judged in work kevin

lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 2:42:31 PM)
i know i can be hurtful at times but people have hurt me too. One Domme responded to my profile by saying when i said i couldnt tribute Her so kill yourself that s all your f*****g good for . i was very hurt by that the idea that a Domme thought i would be better off dead. that wasnt nice. i felt really low that night kevin

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