RE: Benefit scroungers ? (Full Version)

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MissAsylum -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 3:03:20 PM)

know this: I've been called worse by better. Hurtful? not even close. what have i done to you? nothing. you are in your 30s and what do you do when somebody pushes a button( often times after you have already dished out some form of disrespect)? you act like a child. "wah! life isn't fair! Wah! i'm being taken advantage of! Wah! Give more money because its not fair that you work and make money! wah! oh you don't agree with me? well you are a [explicative]! wah, wah, wah!" i mean seriously, you've been doing the same song and dance- and i'm curious- what are you gaining? i'll tell you- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. not a damn thing. take a healthy and bracing dose of reality and grow up.




LadyEllen -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 3:05:56 PM)

Are you useless Kevin?
Are you helpless?
Are you wrong as a person?

Obviously not. Yet this is exactly what you believe isnt it? This is what goes round your head day and night?

Its faulty thinking Kevin - not your fault, just something that happens - and its undermining you by destroying your self esteem. It is why you are out of luck, it is why you are angry, it is why stupid comments such as the one you report from this Dumme you conversed with hurt you so much because you take them to heart and they feed into your negative thought patterns when deep down you know that theyre invalid.

Whatever else youre seeing this therapist for, you need to get this faulty thinking sorted out. Its holding you back, that simple. And it can be resolved - CBT is not just for playtime.

E




juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 3:41:44 PM)

Lady E.

I so admire you... you are seriously the cat's meow...




PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 3:50:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaserKitty

not everyone has the education that you are detailing.  Not everyone is literate.  sometimes, for reasons of undiagnosed disabilities/life circumstances, etc, some people do not complete a basic education.


Well...that is correct but over here in the UK that does not stop you from being able to work...when I came over here ages ago I worked for 5.40 an hour in London as a care worker...was it great? nope. Did it give me anything else then to cover my basic cost of living? certainly not....but I have the value not to live on benefits if I can avoid it and when it means to work on a very low income indeed....I am still far off from the level I used to live on back home...but still better then to live on benefits...




LadyEllen -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 4:59:32 PM)

Thanks Julia; its only fair though to return the admiration. Wasnt it you and Synergy pointing these exact things out to me when I got myself in a downward spiral back in 2006 or 7?

Thing is, when one is in that place the words and advice of others is rarely taken on board if its a one-off - the disorder distinguishes it and edits it into adverse critique to feed back to itself more often than not. The value is in the repeat which, it is presumably hoped, might alert the sufferer to the condition and cause him to question it and seek to resolve it.

E




juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 6:52:25 PM)

This is true.. but I do not think you ever lost your wicked sense of humor.....




LadyEllen -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/1/2010 7:25:10 PM)

Nor, much to the delight of several masochists, my general overall wickedness!

E




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 5:01:08 AM)

You have done nothing to me. i m not blaming You for anything. You strike me as a half decent human being. Unfortunately not everyone is like that , that s why i was hurt. i dont like it when people say things like kill yourself , it makes me feel terrible like im worth nothing that no one would care if i was dead that im worthless and may be i am but its still hard
kevin




xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 7:29:13 AM)

You know Kevin, it probably wasn't even a woman saying that. There are men who pretend to me online "dommes" who actually get money from easily influenced men. You weren't easily influenced by him/her/it, and that pissed it off.
It also thought that it's total dom-like behaviour may finally break you and talk you into sending money.
It didn't.
But it sure shouldn't hurt your feelings. It's just not worth it.




MissAsylum -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 7:49:08 AM)

kevin, i'm sorry somebody said that to you. but you cant take it out on other people.




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 9:26:01 AM)

i know that now. i m sorry for hurting you Miss Asylum
kevin




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 9:28:00 AM)

i hope the CBT you are referring to is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, as i m not sure cock and ball torture is good for depression it might be but then again it might not
kevin




juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 9:30:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

i hope the CBT you are referring to is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, as i m not sure cock and ball torture is good for depression it might be but then again it might not
kevin



Thanks for the chuckle this morning.....




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 10:38:45 AM)

Your welcome . That what this forum is about . Having a laugh.
kevin




splorff -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 2:33:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

In regards to those who many call just benefit scroungers for their inability to find or stay in gainfull employment like the rest of society, could it be those that dip out of the system do so because they are at odds with it ?

Could it be under the applied term lazy that those on welfare have a different thought to how life should be lived, and if the situation arose they would be rather working than scrounging ?

Perhaps it is those who reap benefit payments actually see the futility in a slave labour work market.

Any thoughts ?






There must be many peeps who have thought of dipping out of the system, and there are probably many reasons for wanting to.

I am at odds with the system. For me the issue is money. I am tired of being a tax payer. About 31 % of my income is taken from me by the taxman in Income Tax and National Insurance. 75% of the cost of petrol/gasoline and diesel oil is tax. The same is true for tobacco and alcoholic drinks. Airport tax is extortion. I found a flight price to the LOS for £128, I could hardly believe it. Then I noticed the price did no include tax. The final price with airport tax was £500 . Now they talk about the tax on a long haul to the far east being increased to £500. So that would be ££628 for a £128 flight. The Liebour party introduced another 70+ taxes during their term of office. Then there is VAT tax, at present 17.5 %, soon to be increased to 20% I read recently. Every year I have to pay the Council Tax [concil tax], and that’s about £1000. There is more of course. There are taxes we do not even know we are paying, or even know the names of.

I understand why some people just say fuck it, what is the point.

I am 54, and ready to say fuck it too. But I don’t want a life on welfare. I am going to sell my house, it should make about £150K maybe more. Then I want a small holding or Scottish croft as far from others as possible. I don’t want to be around when society breaks down. It can only get worse, now there is talk of not jailing so many criminals, and unbelievably, a reduction in police officers.

I intend to divorce money entirely.

I will grow all my own veg and keep some pigs and sheep etc. My croft will be near the sea, so that I can open my sea-fridge door anytime- I like fishing. I want wood burning stoves, so need a croft with turf cutting rights, and ideally, near heavily forested land. I’ll also take my Rayburn range with me, it loves wood, it’s a multifuel. It gives hot water, and central heating too, as well as a huge hotplate and two ovens.

When the fuckers come for me, I’ll just say I have no money at all, and explain why. If they want to do the court thing, bailiff thing etc, they can, I don’t care. They will get fuck all in the end. I have seen the trickery, and wish to just exit the system. Besides I like animals and love gardening.

The one I saw that I like the best had 20 acres and a stone cottage for £125K. I could set up a few teppees maybe, and let other live there rent free, just so long as they earned the veg they wished to eat.

Fuck the government.




splorff -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 3:06:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin


But in truth,the society which we have built up, can people who have alternative ideas and there implement them, or is it the reality that we are too well controlled.




The state thinks it has us all by the short and curlies. For many this is indeed the case. Once we only needed the land, so they took it from us with land enclosure and the clearances. Without land we cannot support ourselves as we have no self grown food to eat. At that point you must work not for food, but this new fangled money thing. This is what they wanted all along, for now you can be taxed ! so much easier than demanding a tithe, which might just wither in the heat.

So no, you cannot implement your alternative ideas with dignity if you are poor. You must submit to the corruption of the system, or submit to the charges that some will shamefully lay at your door.

The worst scroungers in my opinion are politicians. They ever seek to point their greasy fingers at others, while kissing babies for the camera.

This is no democracy, it is a kleptocracy.

I hope you find your path. Further education seems to not work for many, but it’s a nice place to be for a while. Your business idea sounds more fruitful. Have you considered a communal lifestyle ?




Aneirin -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/2/2010 4:15:57 PM)

Ah, another who sees the trap our quest for civilisation has brought.

We have everything, everything is at our fingertips, we should want for nothing, but that thing has come at a high price, for we must pay, pay and keep on paying even for the things we don't need, nor want, for it is there just in case we change our mind and must at all costs be maintained, other's livelihoods depend on it.

As I am a forager, today, whilst reading another book, the Edible Seashore by John Wright and introduced by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall, that tit from River Cottage, I came upon all the laws we can unwittingly break for just seeking a meal. Everything is tied up tight, all designed to funnel the law abiding people into the paying culture where they just have to pay, it seems, to even breath air in this country.

The book I was reading did say though one has more of a right to a life of their choosing in Scotland, where the Scots have resisted the land owner control of everything.

But, to live a life of one's own choosing, is that easy, is it even possible, I don't really know, as all the common land has now been sealed up, one cannot start off by building a shelter of their own to live from even temporarily, so to avoid the ged off my land backed up by the local plod, not just farmers land, but any land, for every last bit of it is owned by someone. Those that have tried a compromise, are called travellers and we have all been taught to hate them to a point whether they be no threat nor trouble at all, they are a pariah that begs hassle from the plod wherever they are seen to be and the battle of the beanfield was an example of the disgrace that the police have become towards any that are different. But even a tent is a roof, but a tent too long in one place or not on a designated paid for camping site is called vagrancy, the occupant becoming a criminal for being homeless.

So what is it, how can even a person not seeking an alternative life start off, the simple answer, with no money you can't, no legal work without a fixed abode and no fixed abode without money and so must fall at the mercy of welfare and submit to controlled public hatred and government abuse just for being a person with no money.

Sure many will say there is lodging available for the poor, aye true there is, they are called hostels but they are very few and very far between, one to qualify for hostel status have to go down routes of torment and self destruction for they, what little places are available are reserved for the weakest in society, the mentally ill, criminal and often substance dependant.

What it is to be single and a single healthy male in this country with no money, is to be the unwanted, for we are the target of everyone's abuse if it becames known our status. Sure, we want to work, but work whatever it is must be sufficient to pay for accomodation and lets not forget food, for that also is an essential and with that given where the work may be, travel which by public means is not cheap nor reliable. So for many if they still have the spirit and desire to work they fall into debt for the minimum wage is not enough to even at a basic level live by. Those that reside in Ivory towers forget that due to their meddling, prices are forced to rise, and the poor feel the oft unnoticed minor rise in costs on such things as food and of that the most basic food stuffs.

Can someone please tell me how it is a loaf of bread now costs circa £1.50 a loaf.

Then there is the public question as to why those on the benefits, the scroungers are so unhealthy for they always seem to be smokers and drink alcohol like fish with a problem, little is it known by those that poke fingers is tobacco kills hunger pangs and alcohol takes one out of reality to see the world they are in as more tolerable a place beyond the cares or pressures of their existence. Aye, and drugs too for the unwise but at least I personally have resisted that route, but very nearly a few years ago went there the pressure was that much !

Oh, and lets not forget the depression, for that is only too common with the poor, a debilitating disease which makes even the sunniest, most care free of days  remain the dull rainy gray it always is.

I have had it heard that the finger pokers ask why is it when the poor eat they eat what is considered not good for them, the bread crumb covered mechanically recoved shapes that supermarkets sell so cheaply and in general do themselves no favours with the diet they choose. Well most also would like to eat organic, but organic comes at a cost prohibitive to many who are even in a fixed working lifestyle, so it stands those without anything if they can afford food must eat what they can get as everyone knows stuff labelled as food just fills a hole and is another way to fend off the food pangs when tobacco is unaffordable.

But what being jobless and homeless or just plain poor does, is change ones political perspectives and that is what any governing body is really scared of, so the fingers are pointed at the erstwhile weak and defenceless in society just to keep the majority on the government side as just what would happen if the working, caring( ? ) majority either learned or themselves became the subject of  that  which is the truth about the society we live in ?

Never mock the poor, for wheel of life can turn in any direction and anyone can become subject to it's most devastating effects oh too easily, it did for me and I am very, some say even too cautious

But the lifestyle I may have my eyes on, a craft co operative, one of the many communes down this part of the country, even with  that I am at  the present stuffed, because of the mechanism this country operates. For commune existence is not the free and easy alternative life many think it is, for one must have money to buy into the society, for those who operate an alternative lifestyle have had to find money and buy their own land and  remembering of course a caravan in a woodland is not bricks and mortar and so no mortagage is ever available even if a financial institution was kind enough to give these dwellers a chance. Currently I am told I will need about 35, 000 to set up my craft and live in what is basically a muddy field before I even consider making any money, as I must be able to buy into the commune.

I am as a result of my situation constantly looking and considering the options and fast running out of ideas of just how to live beyond the unsustainable lifestyle I have now, but at least I have seen fit to seek advanced education, primarily for the qualification, but moreso for the networking and exposure I need if I am to follow my dream of a return to the society of the world and work and whatever may or may not come from that eventual step.

Bur Splorff, your dreams, all I say, is research it deep, answer every question and with that take the worst possible case scenario for anything to happen for many who have struck out to follow their mind's desire have found their dream to not be the idyll they once thought it was, for life in civilisation is hard enough, out of it ever so much harder and with some only a few steps up from that of the poor and homeless. You have money, hoard money and it may work out, but of that money be frugal and really question your desire for stuff before you even consider to put your hand in your pocket, something I on a low income have learned very well.




splorff -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/3/2010 1:05:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Have you thought that the reason they hire people off the boat is because they can get away with paying them less? Why is your government allowing these people in and driving down the wage?



The wage is already driven down. Its called the minimum wage. Employers cannot pay any lesser rate. To the British, it is piss poor. To third worlders and Eastern Europeans it is a vast improvement on what they had before.

Consider this there are three groups, the first is big business and politicians, these two want to keep wages down, so that they get to keep more profit. The second group are the British working class. They have made much progress in the last century, they have done this with strike action, but strike action only works, when all the workers strike. The third group is the alien working class, that is here to replace the British working class. This is by design. This last group, will happily work for the minimum wage, they will not strike or offer any resistance. They are wilfully docile.

The three main political parties, and big business favour the alien working class, rather than that of their countrymen, and this is why they all support and encourage mass immigration. This is my belief anyway.

If I tried to emigrate to your country it would probably not be allowed, as my specialism is common and one of your countrymen could do the job. Put another way. American people are prioritised for American jobs. This is how it should be. But we, the British working class cannot expect this from our politicians.

To protest at the presence of the alien working class is to be labelled a racist/nazi/bigot.

There is unrest in the UK. Foreign nationals are sometimes assaulted. A polish guy has a shop nearby selling Polish food. Dickheads have smashed his windows in. On my travels, I have seen a muslim mosque, which has been similarly treated.

We no longer have a Labour Party, it has been taken over by the conservatives [ Republicans]. The only party that approves of returning foreigners to their homelands are the British National Party. In the liberal press, they are vilified as extremely right wing. I do not think protecting the British working class is an extreme right wing objective. I would say they were right of centre. But that’s just my opinion. They did poorly in the general election, but have taken two seats in the European Parliament.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/3/2010 3:21:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Have you thought that the reason they hire people off the boat is because they can get away with paying them less? Why is your government allowing these people in and driving down the wage?


If I tried to emigrate to your country it would probably not be allowed, as my specialism is common and one of your countrymen could do the job. Put another way. American people are prioritised for American jobs. This is how it should be. But we, the British working class cannot expect this from our politicians.



American people are prioritized for American jobs only in the circumstance of emmigration. Those are not the typical jobs people are looking to get a work Visa to do.

The people "off the boat" that Julia is referring to in OUR country are the undocumented workers. They don't get paid minimum wage necessarily. You are right that they are quite willing to work for low wages because in our country, low wages are still much much better than what they were getting where they came from. For many of the "menial" jobs, the wages are minimum wage with no benefits, while the cost of living is twice that.




splorff -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (7/3/2010 4:30:44 PM)

Thanks for clearing that up. Have a great July 4th tomorrow Y'all !
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Have you thought that the reason they hire people off the boat is because they can get away with paying them less? Why is your government allowing these people in and driving down the wage?


If I tried to emigrate to your country it would probably not be allowed, as my specialism is common and one of your countrymen could do the job. Put another way. American people are prioritised for American jobs. This is how it should be. But we, the British working class cannot expect this from our politicians.



American people are prioritized for American jobs only in the circumstance of emmigration. Those are not the typical jobs people are looking to get a work Visa to do.

The people "off the boat" that Julia is referring to in OUR country are the undocumented workers. They don't get paid minimum wage necessarily. You are right that they are quite willing to work for low wages because in our country, low wages are still much much better than what they were getting where they came from. For many of the "menial" jobs, the wages are minimum wage with no benefits, while the cost of living is twice that.




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