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You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 7:06:32 PM

AQuietSimpleMan

Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline

**Please understand that this has the potential to be a HEATED Thread, but if we are all adults and discuss rather than attack this can be a very CIVIL Thread. Here is hoping that we can all be adults.**

I have my own brand of views when it comes to BDSM, It comes from where I have been and the situations I have been involved in. In those situations I have had to confront certain ideals.

When everyone was talking about SSC or RACK I decided not to chose any of them as none of them made any sense to me, so when people talk about SSC or RACK being rules I usually Disagree.

When People talk about Aftercare I can only base my belief on what I know about the partners I have had and the particular brand of play that works for me. In this when it comes down to my opinion on such things I can only offer what works for me.

When people talk about Methods of Dominance, submission, need and expectations I can only offer things from my point of view.

My point of view was crafted from just short of 14 years being actively involved be it Mentally, Physically, or emotionally in the BDSM Lifestyle. I have had to take positions that are not Popular, because they worked for me. I have had to tell submissives that I am not a good match for them because they want something I am not able to give. I have had to release submissives I should have never collared in the first place, I have explored alternatives such as Gor, and Fetish Kink, and even Second Life.

The Point being is that as I do them, NONE of them are ever really all that controversial. It isn’t until someone asks how I do things, or presents an opportunity to discuss how they do things that there becomes Controversy.

Why isn’t someone else’s decision on how they live their life an acceptable thing for them to do. My Opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s but in the break down it becomes how dangerous someone is, or how irresponsible they are.

Why do we find it so difficult to see the validity of someone else’s opinion unless it mimics or at least isn’t threatening to our own?

QSM

_____________________________

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"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

Post #: 1

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 7:12:01 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

I do not agree that points of view by different persons and as regards different subjects are equally valid.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)

Post #: 2

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 7:25:53 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Why isn’t someone else’s decision on how they live their life an acceptable thing for them to do. My Opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s but in the break down it becomes how dangerous someone is, or how irresponsible they are.

Here is my answer... and it goes to the title of the thread.... what maybe wrong for you may not be right for me, and what is right for me maybe wrong for you...

That being said if I say something has worked for me in the past (lets say aftercare as an example) and you say that it is "ridiculous" or "irrational" because it does not work for you, well you are saying in a backhanded sort of way that I am wrong because it works for me... see what I am saying?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)

Post #: 3

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 7:30:06 PM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

quote:

Why do we find it so difficult to see the validity of someone else’s opinion unless it mimics or at least isn’t threatening to our own?

My answer is not BDSM related, but i have found that rejection of someone elses opinion is often because it is viewed as a threat.

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(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)

Post #: 4

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 7:35:24 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Why isn’t someone else’s decision on how they live their life an acceptable thing for them to do. My Opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s but in the break down it becomes how dangerous someone is, or how irresponsible they are.

Here is my answer... and it goes to the title of the thread.... what maybe wrong for you may not be right for me, and what is right for me maybe wrong for you...

That being said if I say something has worked for me in the past (lets say aftercare as an example) and you say that it is "ridiculous" or "irrational" because it does not work for you, well you are saying in a backhanded sort of way that I am wrong because it works for me... see what I am saying?

That's the answer, really Jeff's statement is true, while we preach tolerance, we aren't very tolerant at all. However, we need not be vocal about it and one thing we all kind of agree on most of the time is that everyone should be who they are. When you word something condemning someone for a need they have, it doesn't sound like you're saying this is what is right for me. As that thread went on and you clarified people left it alone more because you said this is about me and how my relationships are. I really didn't read you saying that at all in the beginning, in fact I saw what you wrote is really foolish and self-centered and it suprised me.

We are all different. I think most rational people here recognize that, but wording can be VERY controlling in what responses we get. Unfortunately often we end up saying something and are suprised at the response because we didn't mean or even see how it was going to get interpreted. I think that happens alot more than people not accepting each other's own ideas of what works for them. There are exceptions, but those posters are really easy to spot and ignore.

(probably lots of typos, I was up all night meeting a deadline, which required lots of typing, I'm tired and lazy..sorry)

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/1/2010 7:38:11 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 5

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 7:48:15 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

i've often thought that people's responses to these threads border on rudeness. i get irritated when i see a thread turn from a discussion into people bandying personal attacks on each other. It seems so juvenile. On the other hand, it's been pointed out to me that i'm too sensitive, and these posts were not meant to be taken personally. (Then, every once in a while, a poster just fucking asks for it, and they get what they deserve.) With that in mind, i re-read some of the threads that i thought were particularly vicious, only to find on the second perusal that they weren't that bad.

i don't know what to tell You. Everyone expresses himself differently. i might wish that posters would disagree with each other more politely. Other posters may wish that i were less "prescriptionistic" in my views. At any rate, we each get a chance to say what we think. There is no guarantee that others will agree. That's just the forums, i think.

For the record, i don't believe that all points of view are equally legitamite. Often, one arguement is more convincing than the other. i normally think that i'm the one who's right. If our opinions clash, this means i think that you're wrong. i may tell you so, in which case, you are free to tell me that i'm the one who's wrong, and then explain the reasons why. i don't think that that is offensive at all. It's just an arguement. If we start by saying that everybody's right and nobody's wrong, then we have nothing to talk about.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 7/1/2010 7:54:30 PM >

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 6

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 7:57:36 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Granted, I think I missed where some of this came from. There are some pretty long threads on the boards just now that it's hard to keep up with the real exchanges that are going on. Some of this is due to a lot of things being pulled while some of the crud just seems to remain.

I think you're being too hard on it. Most people out there, I sincerely believe that if you asked them, will tell you that they are doing this in the way that works for them. That's honestly how it's supposed to be. We're not some kind of cookie cutter kinksters. It's like any other area of life, whether it's your political views, the sports you enjoy, or what kind of personality traits that you have.

We're supposed to spend that beginning time involved in wiitwd in the pursuit of how it works best for us. Sure, we learn more and improve as we go, but those beginning ideas of what this stuff is all about do show us the first light of our place in all of this.

If you really think that your opinions around here can't be different or wrong for the way that things work for somebody else, I'm going to tell you that's not true. If you really look around this place, the folks who aren't carbon copies of everybody else are usually the ones that people take notice of. Hell, I'm a high protocol, leather, married, poly, purple, capital "M" writing pain in the ass sometimes. Sure, some people out there can't stand Me. At the same time, I know there are people out there who respect Me because I do say what works for Me, even when it doesn't work for anybody else.

I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I'll just consider this a temporary lapse of memory.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)

Post #: 7

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 7:57:37 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

Wow, Your thread is kicking my thread's ass right now!

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 7/1/2010 7:58:00 PM >

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 8

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:03:09 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

i've often thought that people's responses to these threads border on rudeness. i get irritated when i see a thread turn from a discussion into people bandying personal attacks on each other. It seems so juvenile. On the other hand, it's been pointed out to me that i'm too sensitive, and these posts were not meant to be taken personally. (Then, every once in a while, a poster just fucking asks for it, and they get what they deserve.) With that in mind, i re-read some of the threads that i thought were particularly vicious, only to find on the second perusal that they weren't that bad.

i don't know what to tell You. Everyone expresses himself differently. i might wish that posters would disagree with each other more politely. Other posters may wish that i were less "prescriptionistic" in my views. At any rate, we each get a chance to say what we think. There is no guarantee that others will agree. That's just the forums, i think.

For the record, i don't believe that all points of view are equally legitamite. Often, one arguement is more convincing than the other. i normally think that i'm the one who's right. If our opinions clash, this means i think that you're wrong. i may tell you so, in which case, you are free to tell me that i'm the one who's wrong, and then explain the reasons why. i don't think that that is offensive at all. It's just an arguement. If we start by saying that everybody's right and nobody's wrong, then we have nothing to talk about.

pam

But Pam, there isn't any right or wrong. There's what's right for you and you're the best person to know that and that's true of everyone else. Where you see serious clashes it's either old grudge matches which the mods are dealing with as they can, or it's someone that perceives someone telling them what is right FOR THEM...or wankers which brings out the inane...this ain't a porn site.

You'll get a better feel for it as you start to recognize the posters. I'm glad you hung in there though, I know in the beginning you had a rough time with it but I'm happy you stayed and reconsidered your approach. I do know there are many really good people here, including that lady that types in purple that has some delusion that she's not liked. The fact that we sometimes disagree doesn't mean hatred, it means disagreement and nothing more.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/1/2010 8:04:55 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 9

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:04:45 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Sure, some people out there can't stand Me. At the same time, I know there are people out there who respect Me because I do say what works for Me, even when it doesn't work for anybody else.

The only reason I do not respond more to what you post is because I am a submissive, monogamous, spontaneous and not into ritual person. And although I often can't relate to your life, I have always respected that you advocate for the rest of us to live the way that makes us happy...

Just wanted you to know

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 10

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:05:41 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

There are two aspects to disagreeing:

1. What you say, and
2. How you say it.

If you disagree with someone politely, it generally will cause no issues...

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 11

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:08:26 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Sure, some people out there can't stand Me. At the same time, I know there are people out there who respect Me because I do say what works for Me, even when it doesn't work for anybody else.

The only reason I do not respond more to what you post is because I am a submissive, monogamous, spontaneous and not into ritual person. And although I often can't relate to your life, I have always respected that you advocate for the rest of us to live the way that makes us happy...

Just wanted you to know

Ditto, but even with those differences, I find LP to be one of the most mature, well-thought out and accepting posters here. We may not have the same "lifestyle" (pun intended), but I still learn from her approach to people and issues.

Julia, YOU tend to think outside the box and come up with things that others really hadn't...I learn from you as well.

This is my point, there's no one good thing about CM, all of us together with our quirks, faults, differences and disagreements, make up an outstanding group of people sharing ideas from many different perspectives and personalities.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 12

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:11:29 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
The only reason I do not respond more to what you post is because I am a submissive, monogamous, spontaneous and not into ritual person. And although I often can't relate to your life, I have always respected that you advocate for the rest of us to live the way that makes us happy...

Just wanted you to know

Thank you, julia, but I already knew. We've always been able to debate things in a civil manner or agree when we do have things in common. You've always been more than courteous with Me and I tend to think we enjoy the exchanges when we have them. All good.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 13

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:12:33 PM

Ligeia72

Posts: 126
Joined: 6/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

That's the answer, really Jeff's statement is true, while we preach tolerance, we aren't very tolerant at all.

I think in some ways some people wrongly equate being tolerant with being somehow submissive, or a pushover, or it means you don't have any opinions of your own, and so on. I consider myself very tolerant, or at least I try to be. Tolerance for me is more along the lines of being open/willing to listen, learn and understand, and if it's something I find intolerable then I try to remove myself from the situation, and not waste negative time/energy on it (depending on what the 'intolerable' is of course). Reading through both this thread, and the other, I could quite literally sit here, and with 90% of the posts just keep posting 'I agree' after each one, and mean it. That doesn't mean I have absolutely no thoughts, or opinions of my own, but rather that I am open/willing to listen, learn, and understand (just as an example).

I have to admit, the way I was reading the original thread, before all the kerfuffle in there started, it sounded as if everyone was basically agreeing with each other, except for one or two shades of nuances (and poor wording choices), and everyone just kept reiterating and validating each other's points. Obviously I might have been reading things completely wrong, but I have to say I did think at the core of it all no one was really disagreeing with anyone. Not sure if that's so much a tolerance/willingness to understand thing as just an internet communication is sometimes limited type thing.

YMMV as always.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 14

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:17:17 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Well you haven't been around that long, that's not a slam, but believe me, there will be many threads where you will shake your head at the screen and just say "ok...that's just really fucking stupid"...my point is not really about tolerance, it's that we don't actually have to say the things we say to the screen. Everyone here has their hot buttons though, you learn them and learn to expect some response from them on them and don't personalize it.

By the way I don't equate being submissive with ANY personality or other expectation for anyone other than for the Dom that person is with, THAT is one of MY hotbuttons and you will see me call people on it, because it's just total stereotype and bullshit imo.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/1/2010 8:19:17 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Ligeia72)

Post #: 15

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:19:01 PM

Ligeia72

Posts: 126
Joined: 6/29/2010
Status: offline

BTW, I just wanted to say - Laurell, and LadyPact, I find myself both noticing, and being very impressed/respectful of what you have to say. Just thought I should let you know that.

(in reply to Ligeia72)

Post #: 16

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:20:31 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

or wankers which brings out the inane...this ain't a porn site.

Oh crap, it isn't? I must be lost, where is the porn again?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 17

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:22:01 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

LP and peon need to write again...that was HOT!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 18

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:24:23 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Sure, some people out there can't stand Me. At the same time, I know there are people out there who respect Me because I do say what works for Me, even when it doesn't work for anybody else.

The only reason I do not respond more to what you post is because I am a submissive, monogamous, spontaneous and not into ritual person. And although I often can't relate to your life, I have always respected that you advocate for the rest of us to live the way that makes us happy...

Just wanted you to know

Ditto, but even with those differences, I find LP to be one of the most mature, well-thought out and accepting posters here. We may not have the same "lifestyle" (pun intended), but I still learn from her approach to people and issues.

Julia, YOU tend to think outside the box and come up with things that others really hadn't...I learn from you as well.

This is my point, there's no one good thing about CM, all of us together with our quirks, faults, differences and disagreements, make up an outstanding group of people sharing ideas from many different perspectives and personalities.

What do people learn from me?

I have always thought of myself as being one of the more well-thought out and accepting posters out here.

I'm pretty damn sure that I got this shit down. Not so sure about the rest of you freaks.

Help me help you.

_____________________________

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 19

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. - 7/1/2010 8:24:51 PM

Ligeia72

Posts: 126
Joined: 6/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Well you haven't been around that long, that's not a slam, but believe me, there will be many threads where you will shake your head at the screen and just say "ok...that's just really fucking stupid"...my point is not really about tolerance, it's that we don't actually have to say the things we say to the screen. Everyone here has their hot buttons though, you learn them and learn to expect some response from them on them and don't personalize it.

By the way I don't equate being submissive with ANY personality or other expectation for anyone other than for the Dom that person is with, THAT is one of MY hotbuttons and you will see me call people on it, because it's just total stereotype and bullshit imo.

Yes, true, and definitely. That would be in line with my way of thinking as well.

And absolute DITTO on the equating personality type with expectation stuff, I would disagree strongly with that as well.

I know I haven't been around that long as well, I've been trying to be respectful/aware of just easing into things on here, and not overstepping any sort of potential boundaries, especially in areas where I might not have all the knowledge/facts of a situation. If I do commit any newbie faux pas, or come across/post in a way that is inappropriate, please feel free to correct me on that.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 20

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