quote:

that is none of my business unless it impacts me. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
First, I would have to say that any choice a woman actively makes on her own would have to be considered feminist. I'm glad you didn't ask that about men, because I've already taken my pain meds and that would require way too much intense thought, lol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

My brother in law's ex wife chose abusive relationships.  He was the only one that wasn't physically abusive and I believe he was emotionally abusive.  I have nothing against wanting a man who beats you, but she's been pretty clear that she doesn't, but she still chooses those sorts of men.  I certainly do judge her for that.

You do realize that your ex sister in law will continue to make those bad choices until she gets help? Women don't "choose" abusive relationships, there is typically something in their history that is unresolved, abuse as a child, having had a father who abused the mother are two of the simplest examples. Kind of like why it is so common for the children of alcoholics to become alcoholics, a child who is abused grows up to abuse their children, etc. It is a psychological issue, and not entirely the person's fault.

It's one of the reasons it is so important for a parent to set a good example for our children. They learn not simply what we actively teach them, but also what they see us doing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

that is none of my business unless it impacts me. 

I agree with this.

What I was asking was less about getting actively involved though, and more about judgmentally disengaging.

Hypothetically - You're a woman, you can vote, you get paid exactly as much as your male co-workers, you can get a job in any field you want to train to work in, etc. All the "equalities" are balanced out.

But. You're the only woman who works in you field. 9 out of 10 women get married instead of working. You'll never marry because men don't want to compete with your career, and it would be hard for you to have a child alone because you get the same parental benefits as the men you work with - none - and don't have a spouse to pick up the slack. Your family harps on you to settle down and have children. Et cetera.

Is the right to make choices enough then, from a feminist perspective, or does there need to be widespread social approval for those choices?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

It's actually an interesting question. I would say that I chose that picture because I didn't want to show my face, but I wanted to show that I have a decent body, and the nipple was a mistake that I kept because it's a little bit hidden and a little bit distinct. I put the picture up to attract Dominant men on a BDSM dating site. It's not a picture of me with a cock in my mouth, it's not a picture of me marching in a Pride parade, it's a picture that I think is appropriate in the context I'm in. The response I generally get is that it's artistic, so I think it worked out well in not being vulgar or overly giving. I feel like it's a hint of what I give when I trust someone enough to show them my face.

Were I you....I'd be asking myself: a) why did I choose my body to attract a man b) how does this tie in with feminism?

I wouldn't get too wound up about it....people like to cling to an idea....an ideology....but I'd say people are far too complicated to have their wings clipped by an ideology.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

I don't particularly think that feminism is not letting people see your tits. Though I'll have to give that one more thought...

I'd agree. I imagine hetrosexual feminists are keen on a spot of close contact.......moreover....I'd assume they're quite content with womanhood and less reluctant than some other women.....but they would never see their collective body as the fruit to attract a man.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

I know I admire the hell out of that woman.  I also feel deeply sorry for the children of those men (if they have them)  a job with no parental benefits is not a job for a parent.  No judgement of the men if they, like their female counterpart, choose not to reproduce, but if they have children I do judge them.

As far as the woman marrying, I know that is not the world that I see.  My wife's career greatly outshadows mine.  It's not a field I wish to compete with her in.  Successful women are very attractive to some men.  Now mind you, if she expects to marry one of the men in her career, not likely.  They wouldn't have time for one another.  I am in favor of a traditional model in that sort of situation in as much as I imagine those men have stay at home wives, or wives who work at relatively unimportant jobs.  Not in all cases, but it works better, if one person's career is huge, takes a lot of time and commitment, the other person's has to take second priority.  She can certainly marry a man who is a good homemaker, or who works, but not as his passion.  Those men are out there, in this society, feminism has freed both men and women from traditional shackles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The reality is that it isn't just a woman that gets judged for the choices she makes. We ALL, male and female, adult and child, are judged for the choices we make. It's part of life.

The key, regardless of topic, is taking responsibility for your choices rather than constantly making excuses and whining about the outcome of your choices. If indeed I were to pose nude for photos, it is my grown up responsibility to think ahead and look at the potential judgements/repercussions of my choice. To accept that not all of those judgements and repercussions are likely to be positive and still accept responsibility. To own my choices for better or worse. That to me, is the key.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

I know I admire the hell out of that woman.  I also feel deeply sorry for the children of those men (if they have them)  a job with no parental benefits is not a job for a parent.  No judgement of the men if they, like their female counterpart, choose not to reproduce, but if they have children I do judge them.

As far as the woman marrying, I know that is not the world that I see.  My wife's career greatly outshadows mine.  It's not a field I wish to compete with her in.  Successful women are very attractive to some men.  Now mind you, if she expects to marry one of the men in her career, not likely.  They wouldn't have time for one another.  I am in favor of a traditional model in that sort of situation in as much as I imagine those men have stay at home wives, or wives who work at relatively unimportant jobs.  Not in all cases, but it works better, if one person's career is huge, takes a lot of time and commitment, the other person's has to take second priority.  She can certainly marry a man who is a good homemaker, or who works, but not as his passion.  Those men are out there, in this society, feminism has freed both men and women from traditional shackles.

Oh definitely, I'd think she was awesome too. And what I posted was just hypothetical, trying to imagine a world where all the legal/career/financial things were equal but the social aspects were very gendered. I'm not sure if that world would even be possible, but if the "traditional shackles" were only social in nature and didn't affect one's ability to make choices, it only affected whether other people would approve of those choices, I really don't know what to think. I can see it from two angles, one side of me thinks it's unfair for a woman to have to sacrifice her career to get married, the flip side is that marriage involves two people, and it would be equally unfair to expect the other side to compromise on the desire to marry a housewife.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

that is none of my business unless it impacts me. 

I agree with this.

What I was asking was less about getting actively involved though, and more about judgmentally disengaging.

Hypothetically - You're a woman, you can vote, you get paid exactly as much as your male co-workers, you can get a job in any field you want to train to work in, etc. All the "equalities" are balanced out.

But. You're the only woman who works in you field. 9 out of 10 women get married instead of working. You'll never marry because men don't want to compete with your career, and it would be hard for you to have a child alone because you get the same parental benefits as the men you work with - none - and don't have a spouse to pick up the slack. Your family harps on you to settle down and have children. Et cetera.

Is the right to make choices enough then, from a feminist perspective, or does there need to be widespread social approval for those choices?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

Well no wonder you are so defensive of feminism.  You need it to go to the bathroom or drive a car.

I'm truly sorry but that is patently absurd and archaic... 

By your logic a woman who chooses to actively protest against feminism is still a feminist.

"Any choice a human makes on their own is inherently humanist" 

Not only is this a false statement, it's an incredibly dangerous one.  Good old Hitler... what a humanist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Agreed NG. I do believe that most feminists would find the use of the picture as a lure to be actually dishonorable and contrary to the tenants of feminism.

That having been said, I think one can have feminist beliefs and not follow all the teachings and ideals that the entire philosophy embodies.

I have found that when people say I am a feminist it can mean a variety of different things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
More examples of you being unable to accurately educate yourself about people.

But actually, a woman who chose to protest against feminism would be, much to her dismay I'm sure, a feminist. Now if her partner was telling her to do it, and it wasn't her choice, that's different.

Comparing feminists and humanists is not accurate at all. I would assume that you know that, but your pompousity forces you to grasp at straws to try to make a point. Then bringing Hitler into the mix is just hysterical. What's the name of that theory that eventually someone will always bring up Hitler or the Holocaust? And isn't it usually because they can't come up with any other valid point?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

That's right because there are no other examples of people who've made catastrophic decisions that I could have chose from.  Right...

And if your definition of a feminist includes women who are against it, I really don't know what to tell you.  Enjoy the box.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Agreed NG. I do believe that most feminists would find the use of the picture as a lure to be actually dishonorable and contrary to the tenants of feminism.

That having been said, I think one can have feminist beliefs and not follow all the teachings and ideals that the entire philosophy embodies.

I have found that when people say I am a feminist it can mean a variety of different things.

Certainly there are radical feminist who are against a woman using her body for anything. Again, they are RADICAL. That is not the feminism of today. It isn't simply a matter of picking and choosing what you want to follow. Feminism isn't a "philosophy."

quote:

ORIGINAL: January

You know, I resent any man telling me what feminism is--or isn't. No matter how intellectual or wise he purports to be.

Why? Because at the end of the day, being a woman and having fought battles for certain aspects of equality and respect is intensely personal. The failures and triumphs might change society, but they are also my life, not social theory.

My life is not something some random man knows crap about.

January

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Not unlike bringing, the poor suffering and fearful people that have emailed their agreement but are too afraid to participate, into their debate as example of how right they are..........