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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:02:21 AM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

I see those words posted all over CM...."vanilla sex".  What is it?  What makes sex "vanilla" for you?  For the folks that say they can't/won't do "vanilla" sex...what's missing?  Does "vanilla" mean no kink or power play?  To what degree? 

This thread isn't meant to be wankish or trollish, I don't want the details of your sexual proclivities, I seriously want to understand how people make the distinction. 

To me, sex is sex.  I can make love or I can fuck...it can be hard and wild or it can be tender and loving...it can include kink or it can be straight-forward...it can be boring or I could want it to last forever.  Regardless, I don't really see a difference...sex is sex. 

Am I missing a point?
To tease a bit, yeah...you are missing a point.  If you think sex is just sex, I can point you to a lot of men and women who will stare at you quite pointedly and tell you that you are wrong.  Doesn't mean you are, it just means that some people think of sex in differing ways.  I happen to agree with the statement except that in my case, I would use the word "sometimes"...as in "even with a partner of long-standing and with whom you are romantically AND D/s-entwined, SOMETIMES sex is just sex".


Thanks CreativeDominant...I don't mind the teasing when it's followed up with a sensible explaination.  Thank you for yours.

The bolded part is what I was acknowledging when I said

quote:


To me, sex is sex.  I can make love or I can fuck...it can be hard and wild or it can be tender and loving...it can include kink or it can be straight-forward...it can be boring or I could want it to last forever.  Regardless, I don't really see a difference...sex is sex.


Sex is just a physical act until you bring meaning and purpose into it, imo.  I'm just trying to understand how "vanilla" fits...or if it matters how you label it.

See...the thread that Whiplashsmile4 started about labels http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3286624 really got the ball rolling with all this "how do you define it" stuff for me lately.   Vanilla is just one more label, imo.

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:02:44 AM   
submissivemale22


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivemale22

has anyone put forth a definition that didnt encompass sex with someone not interested in d/s?
So you're defining a term by a single subset.

That's like saying:

'what is a flower?'

'a flower is anything from the geranium family'.

Critical thinking-you haz heard of it?



im not limiting it to that. im just offering a simplified definition (because the poster seems to struggle with it) that is sufficient for 99% of the customary uses on this board. i honestly don't see how someone could not differentiate between vanilla and d/s on their own, so im trying to make it as basic as possible.

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:11:19 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivemale22

im not limiting it to that. im just offering a simplified definition (because the poster seems to struggle with it) that is sufficient for 99% of the customary uses on this board.
I counted (albeit quickly): 8 posters on this thread. 4 posters on this thread saying they have vanilla sex with their partners. All 4 of those 4 posters are/have been involved in D/s dynamics.

Your 99% claim does not ring true.

quote:

i honestly don't see how someone could not differentiate between vanilla and d/s on their own
That's because you are totally missing a subtlety here.

quote:

so im trying to make it as basic as possible.
...so blanket statements about the whole board which exclude the beliefs 50% of the posters on the thread dealing with said beliefs are ok, so long as it's in the interest of treating the OP like an idiot.

I like you more and more every time you post.

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:14:26 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

I see those words posted all over CM...."vanilla sex".  What is it?  What makes sex "vanilla" for you?  For the folks that say they can't/won't do "vanilla" sex...what's missing?  Does "vanilla" mean no kink or power play?  To what degree? 

This thread isn't meant to be wankish or trollish, I don't want the details of your sexual proclivities, I seriously want to understand how people make the distinction. 

To me, sex is sex.  I can make love or I can fuck...it can be hard and wild or it can be tender and loving...it can include kink or it can be straight-forward...it can be boring or I could want it to last forever.  Regardless, I don't really see a difference...sex is sex. 

Am I missing a point?
To tease a bit, yeah...you are missing a point.  If you think sex is just sex, I can point you to a lot of men and women who will stare at you quite pointedly and tell you that you are wrong.  Doesn't mean you are, it just means that some people think of sex in differing ways.  I happen to agree with the statement except that in my case, I would use the word "sometimes"...as in "even with a partner of long-standing and with whom you are romantically AND D/s-entwined, SOMETIMES sex is just sex".


Thanks CreativeDominant...I don't mind the teasing when it's followed up with a sensible explaination.  Thank you for yours.

The bolded part is what I was acknowledging when I said

quote:


To me, sex is sex.  I can make love or I can fuck...it can be hard and wild or it can be tender and loving...it can include kink or it can be straight-forward...it can be boring or I could want it to last forever.  Regardless, I don't really see a difference...sex is sex.


Sex is just a physical act until you bring meaning and purpose into it, imo.  I'm just trying to understand how "vanilla" fits...or if it matters how you label it.

See...the thread that Whiplashsmile4 started about labels http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3286624 really got the ball rolling with all this "how do you define it" stuff for me lately.   Vanilla is just one more label, imo.
Thanks for your kind words.  Yes, the "labeling" can get pesky but it IS useful...as long as you have some sort of logical definition that works within the label.  To get to that definition requires some learning and some thought...something I like to do.  As a matter of fact, if you listen to SOME people, it is something I like to do too much of...but there again, I've met some people on these boards and in real life who either didn't put enough thought into the "whys" of the "all" of what they were doing or who thought that they could put their own---entirely different---definition on something.  They usually wound up getting shot down or, worse yet, hurting someone else.

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:23:24 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

I see those words posted all over CM...."vanilla sex".  What is it?  What makes sex "vanilla" for you?  For the folks that say they can't/won't do "vanilla" sex...what's missing?  Does "vanilla" mean no kink or power play?  To what degree? 

This thread isn't meant to be wankish or trollish, I don't want the details of your sexual proclivities, I seriously want to understand how people make the distinction. 

To me, sex is sex.  I can make love or I can fuck...it can be hard and wild or it can be tender and loving...it can include kink or it can be straight-forward...it can be boring or I could want it to last forever.  Regardless, I don't really see a difference...sex is sex. 

Am I missing a point?


When people use it, it's usually people new to BDSM practices or those who are trying to define BDSM as altogether different or even better.

the.dark.

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:31:43 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc


When people use it, it's usually people new to BDSM practices or those who are trying to define BDSM as altogether different or even better.

the.dark.


^Pretty much this^


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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:38:25 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
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Status: offline 		this

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

When people use it, it's usually people new to BDSM practices or those who are trying to define BDSM as altogether different or even better.

the.dark.


(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:39:59 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I honestly don't make the distinction in my own head. There are "things I like" and "things I don't like". But in BDSM circles, I use the word "vanilla" to describe sex without sadism/masochism/bondage.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:44:02 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I honestly don't make the distinction in my own head. There are "things I like" and "things I don't like". But in BDSM circles, I use the word "vanilla" to describe sex without sadism/masochism/bondage.
But the vanilla sex in your house has a very strong D/s dynamic, right? So that's the exact opposite of what sm22 said...

It's worse than the English and the Americans; wiitwd-ers are even more separated by a common language!


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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:46:02 AM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

When people use it, it's usually people new to BDSM practices or those who are trying to define BDSM as altogether different or even better.

the.dark.


Agreed....just wondering if I was missing anything by enjoying a scoop of vanilla along with my Phish Food or Cherry Garcia.

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:52:26 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
But in BDSM circles, I use the word "vanilla" to describe sex without sadism/masochism/bondage.


I dunno Jeff.  Even when in the missionary position, I find Master pretty much has me in a state of bondage.
(was that TMI?)

the.dark.

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RC&dc


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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 8:53:44 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

When people use it, it's usually people new to BDSM practices or those who are trying to define BDSM as altogether different or even better.

the.dark.


Agreed....just wondering if I was missing anything by enjoying a scoop of vanilla along with my Phish Food or Cherry Garcia.


Mmmmmm....Phish food.

the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 9:31:41 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
But the vanilla sex in your house has a very strong D/s dynamic, right? So that's the exact opposite of what sm22 said...

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Sometimes I initiate sexual activity. Sometimes she does. Sometimes she's on top, sometimes I am. Our actual life is pretty fluid. As I've noted many times, the authority dynamic between Carol and I isn't particularly eroticized. So sometimes (to talk to the dark's comment), even in the missionary position, I have her pretty thoroughly in a state of bondage... sometimes physically and sometimes emotionally. Then again, other times we're just making love. My opinion here is that words like "kinky" and "vanilla" break down at anything other than the highest level. It's kind of like "master" and "slave". In broad brush strokes, they are somewhat useful but any deeper conversation needs to be more specific.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 11:24:26 AM   
dreamerdreaming


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Vanilla sex is sex where neither kink, nor a power dynamic comes into play. Its just plain old, "boring" sex. Its YUMMY, if its done right!



ETA: *takes CreativeDominant's dom card*

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 7/7/2010 11:28:05 AM >

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 11:35:30 AM   
FetishRose


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Status: offline 		For us, a LOT of our sex is vanilla, if you are defining it by kink activities present during the sexual encounter.  If you are defining it as sticking to just one position, it's never vanilla.
I prefer to think of vanilla as lack of kink type activities.  In my experience, even those who are not involved in D/s or BDSM at all (at least those in my generation), are far from just-missionary.  Regular, non-kinky people still change positions.  Hell, they even tie each other up with ties and perform oral sex...oh my!

However, my Sir and I do frequently engage in "regular sex."  We are in love, it feels good, and we enjoy the closeness. Does that mean he is not in control?  Absolutely not.  He can change it from mumbled "I love yous" to whimpering with a yank on my hair.


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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 11:37:42 AM   
MissAsylum


Posts: 1863
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Status: offline 		i believe i had a thread similar to this. my boyfriend classifies himself as vanilla even though i'm in the lifestyle. if anybody saw what our sex life involved, they would laugh at the notion of it being vanilla...except when we use vanilla ice cream...but anyway it depends on what you consider to be "normal" or "kinky". i tie my boyfriend up on a regular basis- but its business as usual to me.

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 11:57:33 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		The easiest way for Me to describe what I term "vanilla sex" would be sex without any power exchange, kink, or BDSM involved.  The best way for Me to illustrate that would be the sex that I have with MP 98% of the time.  We have an equal marriage with neither of us having authority over the other.  That majority of the time, there is also no S/m involved (he has bottomed to Me on occasions prior, so it's not a perfect record), no bondage, and no one person being in control of the other.  It doesn't have to do with positions or whether one person goes down on the other or any of those other things that people attempt to say are 'submissive acts' or any of that silly noise.

With clip, it's the other way around.  At least 98% of the sex we have is not vanilla sex.  Even at that, I'm reaching because the control aspect is always present.  This is where all of the kink stuff comes into play.  There is almost always S/m as a part of it, mental control, and all of the other fun little things that folks have listened to Me talk about on the boards over the years.  I don't ask him if he wants to give Me an orgasm or if he's interested in sex.  I tell him because that is part of owning him. 

That's how I make the distinction.  I hope that helps to answer the question.


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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 12:10:46 PM   
Nineveh


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Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline 		I have seen a bunch of people who DO have vanilla sex elaborate on what it means to them.  As someone who does have vanilla sex I don't think my definition really matters that much.  What does, as far as I can tell from the original post, is the definition of vanilla sex according to those who don't do it.  Anyone who won't have vanilla sex on here?  And if so, what is it to you?

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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 12:21:30 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FetishRose

In my experience, even those who are not involved in D/s or BDSM at all (at least those in my generation), are far from just-missionary.  Regular, non-kinky people still change positions.  Hell, they even tie each other up with ties and perform oral sex...oh my!
Lol-I was exaggerating for effect.

But I do genuinely know people my age who think oral is taboo and out there.


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RE: "Vanilla Sex"....huh? - 7/7/2010 12:41:06 PM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

I have seen a bunch of people who DO have vanilla sex elaborate on what it means to them.  As someone who does have vanilla sex I don't think my definition really matters that much.  What does, as far as I can tell from the original post, is the definition of vanilla sex according to those who don't do it.  Anyone who won't have vanilla sex on here?  And if so, what is it to you?


Kind of what I was getting at.

If I go according to the reply I recieved from RCdc (which was a great one, imo), using the word vanilla can be seen as more a way to " define BDSM as altogether different or even better"...which has me wondering why the people who say they can't or won't have vanilla sex feel the way they do.  Is it that they see sex within D/s or bdsm as special or better in some way? 

I forget who made the post and in what context, but I remember reading a reply on another thread a while back that basically said sometimes people choose to be different just for the sake of being different.  I'm wondering if, by saying you (general you) can only have non-vanilla sex, are you choosing to make not only yourself but the idea of WIITWD into something more special than it really is just for the sake of being seen as special? 


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