RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind?

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RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 4/29/2004 8:14:31 PM

DaddysEve

Posts: 2
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline

Simple answer, yes. I am slave, but, that doesn't change the fact that I am a conservative (19th century definition) and have a very good education and strong opinions, and, yes, I will have opinions that run contrary to my master's. This doesn't give me any right to make master look a fool. I can express my opinions properly and with respect. They are not hammers to put anyone down with.

Unless, of course they think Marx has redeeming features. : )

Eve.

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 21

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 4/29/2004 9:35:33 PM

sweetobsession

Posts: 29
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline

from all the Masters i have fought or talked to in my opinion when they say the Master/Mistress is always right isnt always true, you have to remember that they are humans just like we are and will make different mistakes or have different views on occasion dont be afraid to speak your mind to them but just go about it respectfulluy like dont shove that they are wrong in their faces but merely set a what's the word uhm like set grounds for the mistake or wrong doing and make them notice that ground

(in reply to SternMistress)

Post #: 22

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 4/30/2004 2:56:27 AM

slaveofKat

Posts: 24
Joined: 4/27/2004
Status: offline

I think that if the Mistress is wrong and that I am positive she is wrong, first of all it depends on if what she is wrong about is an important matter. If she said we had $500 in the bank, and I knew we only had $50, it would be my duty to respectfully show her she was mistaken, in a way that honors her. On the other hand, if it was a matter like the Pearl Harbor thing, well, I think......hmmm.....as a slave, it seems like I have no business to correct her, but also it is my duty to serve, and give any information that would be helpful to her.......Good Question, tough call to make, I guess for me it depends on the individual circumstance.

(in reply to SternMistress)

Post #: 23

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 4/30/2004 12:31:25 PM

Katmistress

Posts: 33
Joined: 4/27/2004
Status: offline

First off, is this correction on opinion or "common knowledge"?
I don't expect my slave to agree with me on everything and I know that I am not always right BUT I will NOT accept him trying to force his opinion down my throat or debate him over any issue.
There is nothing worse then the "I know something you don't know" attitude.
I decided to have my slave write his thoughts and opinions in a journal that I read at my convenience. Once something is written down he is to consider the matter closed and leave it to me to deal with how I see fit. He is never to voice what he writes.
This works out much better because my slave seems to have a problem with keeping his voice and words respectful.

(in reply to slaveofKat)

Post #: 24

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 5/11/2004 7:37:42 PM

SavageLust

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/11/2004
Status: offline

I have to say that for the most of My life, My experience has been with training, during which time a female is not allowed to talk beyond answering yes/no questions or addressing people in public -- she does have to keep a journal and each day, I make a line somewhere between halfway and three quarters down the page (depending on her behavior that day) and she is allowed to make any comments, ask any questions or say anything she likes, in writing, in the bottom section of the page. This is done with no reprisal, no punishment and I always address her concerns and answer the questions she writes there... The training is based on an extremely high level of trust afterall.

It is interesting, to read back through the journals after a few months and see how the subject and concerns of the writing changes. I guess My input on this, is yes they have a mind, they are taught only the acceptable manor in which to exercise it.

(in reply to Katmistress)

Post #: 25

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 5/12/2004 1:05:49 AM

EStrict

Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline

I have to admit Savage, that your manner of doing things would greatly change my reactions and thoughts. Because I would feel you are limiting them, I would be less likely to be as verbose as is normal for myself, and thus cause both of us to lose out in out in things. I would write little (though never not fullfill your basic wish), and in the end cheat us all in the simple fact that I don't feel you really care about my thoughts. I may be totall off in this, but it is definitely the first though and feeling I got.

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to SavageLust)

Post #: 26

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 5/12/2004 9:26:39 AM

SavageLust

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/11/2004
Status: offline

sandy,

I understand what you are saying, I should clarify a little perhaps what I assumued I got across in the first part of the post... with the exception of one girl, every girl that has come to Me, came to be trained for her Owner or to be sold to another Owner - One average, the girls stay here a year and are here to learn only.

Now, I have to admit, that there has not been a parade of girls come and go, but I learned the idea of the journal from a Gentleman that taught Me a lot about training... the top part of the page is a regular journal/diary that the girl uses to record the events of the day and (most importantly) what she learned that day, the bottom is chance to question the day (or Me) and to relfect on the things that the girl does not understand or does not like - as part of the symbology of the training, the size of the area she is given on the bottom gets smaller (thereby the top gets bigger) as the training progresses.

The journal is given to the girl's Owner when the training is complete, it is a great way for Him or Her to get an introspective look at the girl they own.

I do agree that for the girl that lived as My personal pet, she was of course allowed to speak matters of safety... "look out, you are about to get hit by a bus!", beyond that, she could freely ASK to talk anytime she wanted (sir, can i ask you something?, sir, may i speak to you if you are not busy?) - but, naturally, if the answer to these questions was "no" or "later", then she waited.

In public, she was allowed to talk to people as needed and encouraged to be friendly and open (I would often tell her that she would be punished if a person she talked to in public did not smile while they talked to her), she was to address all Men as Sir.

I actually liked her questions and loved to take her places and see the look of wonder on her face as she saw things for the first time, W/we went to parks and city streets, museums and concerts, mountains and sand dunes... I felt it My responsability, as part of ownership and control, to show her and teach her the things that comes after the slave training -- the things that normally are done for the girls I train, by their owners when they go to them.

Yes, it was a wonderful time and yes, I would never take away the chance for a girl to complete My life by participating in it -- I was taught what many call the very old ways and believe that there is a ying and a yang to the D/s relation and that the "power" is actually the spirit if the female, only by TOTAL control of her, does the Man take the power...

Call Me too oldfashioned for this board I guess

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 27

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 5/12/2004 11:57:18 AM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

The original question was about facts. My ex-wife once argued the boiling point of water was a matter of opinion. I fudged and said it can vary with pressure. She insisted I was wrong and it is a matter of opinion and was mad I would not budge. (If I remember it was after I looked at my watch, then the sun and pointed west. Arguing over opinion and fact brought us to temperature. {98.6 degrees C is not the boiling point of water, btw <OK not with breathable atmosphere

.})

We were vanilla. I was right. If it had been a Domme I'd be no less right.

What I think you two should do is have a chat about what are facts and what are opinions. Of course, that is my opinion.

I think if one limits someone's ability to communicate one has laid the foundation for trouble in the relationship.

Of course, that is just the opinion of a worm.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Katmistress)

Post #: 28

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 5/12/2004 6:50:26 PM

topcat

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline

quote:

Of course, that is just the opinion of a worm.

Oh my.

Did you just say that the "dedicated submissive" of Lady Beckett is a worm?

I'm Tellin'!

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 29

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 5/13/2004 2:21:47 AM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Of course, that is just the opinion of a worm.

quote:

Of course, that is just the opinion of a worm.

For some reason the emoticon does not copy unless you go out of your way to put it there. Hmmm, can lead to many misquotes.

I doubt M'Lady fears i think of myself that way. Um, M'Lady, why are you picking up that cane?

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 30

RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 5/18/2004 7:14:27 PM

randsboy

Posts: 63
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Olympia WA
Status: offline

First and formost the slave is the property of it's Master. Unless what is about to happen will place the slave in harms way, the slave must not correct the Master, especially in public. Later on when Master and slave are in private easy conversation will the slave be able to voice what it felt was wrong with what had happened and NOT before. believe me, i learned this the hard way twith nearly an hour of spaking and flogging and forced silence.

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 31

RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/18/2005 12:11:01 AM

randsboy

Posts: 63
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Olympia WA
Status: offline

First, do what is requested by your Master. Then, after the scene ask for permission to speak freely and provide your own insight as to how it could have been done better of why you feel what the Master asked of you was wrong. In this way you can freely provide your input as the slave/sub without too much repercussion.

_____________________________

randsboy

always home during the day and willing to play. I do not drive, but could host. color & ethnicity not a problem

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 32

RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/18/2005 1:05:37 AM

SwitchNCgal

Posts: 79
Joined: 11/16/2004
Status: offline

just my opinion but I think a respectful correction like the Sir/Maam the frezzing point is 0 C not 32 C. correction of facts done that way should never be taken as a reason for punishment as long as it remains respectful.

And opinion well I think if you can't have a lively debate with someone that is proably a life partner then you are cheating yourself of enjoying all that they have to offer.

When I was growing up we would discuss the events of the day important or otherwise, like the berlin wall coming dow. but then again we were living in Deutchland and we would be speaking at least 2 if not 3 or 4 languages even if it was just polite phrases and words at the table.

A partner without a mind that can be expressed freely is no better then a doll.

_____________________________

A switch gal that needs a little special help now and then and is stuck in the southeast.

(in reply to randsboy)

Post #: 33

RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/18/2005 5:29:33 AM

nella

Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline

Yes a submissive is not an iflatabel sex doll but a human being whit a mind of her or his own. i would say he or she can speak up against her dominant, but must do so respectfully.

(in reply to SwitchNCgal)

Post #: 34

RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/18/2005 11:24:41 AM

tabbycat

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/29/2004
Status: offline

Maybe that's why i'm a single sub *smiles* i've been told all my life how "smart" i am. Book smart maybe, street smart is up for grabs. Anyway i don't know as much as many here and you've all said some interesting things. i guess its simple for me i don't see how someone can engage with my body if he can't engage my mind.

(in reply to nella)

Post #: 35

RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/18/2005 12:05:07 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

The bottom line is that I don't own, play with or care about "pieces of shit." I value what a submissive brings to the mix.

Amen Suz, Amen!

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 36

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/18/2005 1:26:28 PM

INSIDEYOURMIND

Posts: 483
Status: offline

I was sitting in a bar one time and I saw a Jewish man walk in and sit down to have a drink. After a few drinks a Chinese man came in and sat next to him. The Jewish man immediately turned and punched the other man in the face.

The Chinese man shouted, "You fool! What was that for?" The Jewish man replied, "That's for Pearl Harbor." Chinese man said, "You idiot, I am Chinese not Japanese!" Jewish man replied, "Chinese, Japanese, what's the difference?"

The Chinese man proceeded to punch the Jewish man in the face.

The Jewish man clutched his jaw and said angrily, "Owww, why did you do that?!" The Chinese man replied, "That's for the Titanic." Jewish man said, "But an iceberg caused it to sink, not me!"

The Chinese man smiled and said, "Iceberg, Goldberg, what's the difference!"

As my screen name implies, I spend a great deal of time inside my sub's mind, if she didn't have one, I guess all I could do is echo....................

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to SternMistress)

Post #: 37

RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/18/2005 3:38:08 PM

liltxsubby

Posts: 328
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: TX
Status: offline

i'm quickly learning that Doms, at least the ones i've met, prefer subs to have a mind. works fine for me since i have opinions and prefer to be able to voice them, i just know that it should be done at an appropriate time in a respectful manner. in fact, i have a bad habit of not speaking up when i should for fear of saying something wrong, i'm quickly learning this willl not be accepted, especially if my opinion/need/want/whatever is specifically asked for. as far as corrrecting a fact, well there's a time and place for everything.

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 38

RE: Shgould a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/19/2005 3:13:56 AM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

Rather than have my girl wonder, I told her in the beginning that one of her responsibilities was to provide me with any information she felt I might need. I purposely left the definition of information vague to encourage her to bring me anything that she felt might be of value. It works very well for us and I would much rather have her bring me something I already know than have her be reticent when she knows something I do not.
Timothy

(in reply to liltxsubby)

Post #: 39

RE: Should a sub/slave have a mind? - 1/19/2005 11:00:18 AM

realophelia

Posts: 168
Status: offline

quote:

And I think that a sub/ slave needs to feel that the Dom is smarter than the sub/slave.

I agree with that. It is just about impossible for me to be in relationship with someone who isn't smarter than I am. This doesn't mean that the person I am with is always right, however, or that I don't contribute if there is a reason to do so.

Anyone can be misinformed. If a Dom or Master is about to make an error (make a wrong turn, hang wall-paper upside down or whatever) it would be silly to stand mutely by and allow them to do so.

~Ophelia

< Message edited by realophelia -- 1/19/2005 11:08:46 AM >

_____________________________

"And every one of them words rang true And glowed like burning coal Pouring off of every page Like it was written in my soul..."

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 40

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