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RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:22:46 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

You'd have to be all sorts of mental to shoot someone in the back at a train station in front of witnesses. Seriously. It was negligent as all hell but the idea that he intended to kill that man doesn't ring true to me. He wasn't fired on or in any immediate danger and any time a cop shoots someone there's an investigation to see if it was justified and this situation is nowhere close to that.


Negligent doesn't cut it.

Even if someone had never handled a taser or a gun I'm pretty sure most people would be able to tell the difference.

But he was trained in the use of both.

If he thought he was in danger then why not use that as a defense instead of the laughable story he put forth?

Wait one moment......if negligence plays into a shooting in which a trained LEO is involved...all of those arguments,put forth by pro gun types,that more guns mean we are safer, sort of goes out the window ......don't they?
I mean if trained professionals can screw up....than we have no expectation that Joe citizen can hit the x spot while facing down a spree killer at Virginia Tech.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:28:03 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Think of the adrenalin factor. Not claiming I know what happened in this case but I do know that whenever adrenalin is involved heavy objects can feel quite a bit lighter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Actually, the handle on a Tazer is very much like that of a Glock, both are polymer, and set at about the same angle, that being said, Mehserle made more than one mistake, and should have been charged with at least reckless homicide, if not second degree murder. For one, your finger does not go in the trigger guard unless you plan on shooting. Glocks only have a 6lb trigger pull, and no external safeties, they're point and shoot striker fired weapons. Also a Tazer weighs quite a bit less than a Glock 17/19 fully loaded with magazine inserted.


The unmitigated hypocrisy is staggering.....now we should take into effect the "adrenalin factor".....but pay no heed at all when your type is arguing that armed civilians can hold down the body count when they find themselves in the midst of some sort of spree killing scenario.
Please make up your mind...like the "states rights" argument you folks must pick a stance and hold to it.......you don't get to have it both ways....depending on the direction the wind is blowing.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 7/9/2010 6:33:32 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:29:31 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

Wait one moment......if negligence plays into a shooting in which a trained LEO is involved...all of those arguments,put forth by pro gun types,that more guns mean we are safer, sort of goes out the window ......don't they?


Just because he's a trained cop doesn't mean he's a particularly good one.

Nor does being a civilian mean you're not a good shot.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:32:18 PM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

You'd have to be all sorts of mental to shoot someone in the back at a train station in front of witnesses. Seriously. It was negligent as all hell but the idea that he intended to kill that man doesn't ring true to me. He wasn't fired on or in any immediate danger and any time a cop shoots someone there's an investigation to see if it was justified and this situation is nowhere close to that.


Negligent doesn't cut it.

Even if someone had never handled a taser or a gun I'm pretty sure most people would be able to tell the difference.

But he was trained in the use of both.

If he thought he was in danger then why not use that as a defense instead of the laughable story he put forth?



That's what I'm saying - I don't think he thought he was in danger. I don't think he intended to fire a real bullet. I think he made a very severe, very stupid error, which he will go to jail for.

A man was laying face down on the ground at a crowded train station, who in their right mind would shoot them in the back? Even the people who are fucked up enough to want to do that sort of thing wouldn't do it in front of witnesses.


You make a HUGE  assumption when you ask"who in their right mind".....perhaps you might want to turn that around and ask......"just how twisted this bastard was that he could shoot an unarmed,defenseless young man .....in the back,while said young man is lying on the ground?"
Seems to be a much more relevant question.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:36:26 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
You make a HUGE  assumption when you ask"who in their right mind".....perhaps you might want to turn that around and ask......"just how twisted this bastard was that he could shoot an unarmed,defenseless young man .....in the back,while said young man is lying on the ground?"
Seems to be a much more relevant question.


Actually you're making an assumption that he did it intentionally.

I'm using the question I asked to determine how plausible it is that he did do it intentionally. To me, it seems extremely unlikely.

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity alone.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:37:37 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

Wait one moment......if negligence plays into a shooting in which a trained LEO is involved...all of those arguments,put forth by pro gun types,that more guns mean we are safer, sort of goes out the window ......don't they?


Just because he's a trained cop doesn't mean he's a particularly good one.

Nor does being a civilian mean you're not a good shot.
So,in your view we should,as Sanity put forth,take into account the "adrenalin factor".....but when arguing over conceal and carry permits we should just assume that a bunch of untrained civilians with firearms will lessen the body count at the scene of spree killings.....okay,that  actually doesn't  work for me....it reeks of bullshit and hypocrisy....not to mention selectivity in the critical thinking process.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:39:54 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
So,in your view we should,as Sanity put forth,take into account the "adrenalin factor".....but when arguing over conceal and carry permits we should just assume that a bunch of untrained civilians with firearms will lessen the body count at the scene of spree killings.....okay,that  actually doesn't  work for me....it reeks of bullshit and hypocrisy....not to mention selectivity in the critical thinking process.


Yup. That's exactly what I think. On the nose.

I'm surprised you managed to get all that from "some cops suck at their job and some civilians are good with guns." It's like some John Edwards shit right there.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:42:10 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
You make a HUGE  assumption when you ask"who in their right mind".....perhaps you might want to turn that around and ask......"just how twisted this bastard was that he could shoot an unarmed,defenseless young man .....in the back,while said young man is lying on the ground?"
Seems to be a much more relevant question.


Actually you're making an assumption that he did it intentionally.

I'm using the question I asked to determine how plausible it is that he did do it intentionally. To me, it seems extremely unlikely.

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity alone.
Sorry.....shooting a man,lying prone on the ground,in the back goes way beyond stupidity to me.
Lets flip the script......lets make it a cop lying on the ground,unarmed ...while a black man,fuck it any color you choose,is standing over him......the police officer winds up dead with a bullit in his back.
The defendant claims he didn't mean to pull the trigger....."the adrenalin factor" sort of grabbed him and supplied the 6lbs. of pressure.
How does that play out in a courtroom?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:44:11 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Sorry.....shooting a man,lying prone on the ground,in the back goes way beyond stupidity to me.
Lets flip the script......lets make it a cop lying on the ground,unarmed ...while a black man,fuck it any color you choose,is standing over him......the police officer winds up dead with a bullit in his back.
The defendant claims he didn't mean to pull the trigger....."the adrenalin factor" sort of grabbed him and supplied the 6lbs. of pressure.
How does that play out in a courtroom?


I dunno, I suppose a lot of it would depend on why a civilian had a cop lying face down on the ground with the intent to tase him.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:45:08 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
So,in your view we should,as Sanity put forth,take into account the "adrenalin factor".....but when arguing over conceal and carry permits we should just assume that a bunch of untrained civilians with firearms will lessen the body count at the scene of spree killings.....okay,that  actually doesn't  work for me....it reeks of bullshit and hypocrisy....not to mention selectivity in the critical thinking process.


Yup. That's exactly what I think. On the nose.

I'm surprised you managed to get all that from "some cops suck at their job and some civilians are good with guns." It's like some John Edwards shit right there.
BULLSHIT...I got nothing from your line other than its inherent hypocrisy ....the fact that I toook that hypocrisy to it's natural and most rediculous conclusion does not change the basic hypocrisy of the stance.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:48:06 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Sorry.....shooting a man,lying prone on the ground,in the back goes way beyond stupidity to me.
Lets flip the script......lets make it a cop lying on the ground,unarmed ...while a black man,fuck it any color you choose,is standing over him......the police officer winds up dead with a bullit in his back.
The defendant claims he didn't mean to pull the trigger....."the adrenalin factor" sort of grabbed him and supplied the 6lbs. of pressure.
How does that play out in a courtroom?


I dunno, I suppose a lot of it would depend on why a civilian had a cop lying face down on the ground with the intent to tase him.
Tell you what Elisabella you dream up a reasonable justification for my scenario......and I will try my dammest to come up with a reasonable justification for the bullit in the back of an unarmed prone lying young man
Which one of us has the harder job?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:48:19 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
BULLSHIT...I got nothing from your line other than its inherent hypocrisy ....the fact that I toook that hypocrisy to it's natural and most rediculous conclusion does not change the basic hypocrisy of the stance.


Natural and most ridiculous conclusion?

I'd like to check out your version of nature sometimes. I'll bring some shrooms.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:49:58 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Tell you what Elisabella you dream up a reasonable justification for my scenario......and I will try my dammest to come up with a reasonable justification for the bullit in the back of an unarmed prone lying young man
Which one of us has the harder job?


The cop was corrupt and involved with drugs/guns/organized crime, the civilian was turned by the police as an informant and the cop found out and was going to shoot him.

This is fun. Your turn.

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RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:54:52 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


Some feel the the verdict against the white cop was just....Those same folks feel that in the case of the black panthers it was a disgrace.




Interesting comparison you are drawing, DG. Having a Dali phase?

I haven't completely made up my mind about this verdict. I don't think it was a deliberate act of murder. I certainly think it was criminal negligence that caused the death of another person.

Cops aren't emotionless robots. I'm glad they aren't, because I have talked my way out of some potentially unpleasant and time consuming situations, once or thrice. This guy had a frame of mind going on. Did he put a bullet into that man because he was panicked and scared, or because he was too fucking lazy to check? Like when he was looking down the barrel before firing, the way he was trained to do, maybe? Was he too lazy to check because prejudice told him a (black male) wasn't worth the trouble anyway? Those aren't easy questions for me to answer.

I'm suprised to see anybody trying to make a point off him only being 22. That's an age that can put up one hell of a fight. It lends itself to a panicked error defense.

If we see this individual (with the aryan sounding name) as a surrogate for all crimes of police brutality and misconduct in Oakland over the decades, fucking murder 1. It ain't supposed to work like that, though. This case, this guy, I'm leaning very hard it should have been voluntary manslaughter. I didn't hear and see what the jury did.

So do the violent assholes figure looting a shoestore is a settlement for their mental anguish or something?

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RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 6:58:38 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
So do the violent assholes figure looting a shoestore is a settlement for their mental anguish or something?


Bitches don't know bout my shoe verdicts.

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RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 7:02:06 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		The cop was a no good racist bastard who had no business being armed by any government agency....and just did what comes natural to an armed racist when face with an unarmed black man lying prone in front of him.
Your right this is fun.....
In reality I have no idea what was in this cops mind....what I do know is we ask these peopl(LEO's) to do a difficult and trying job.
I understand that.....on the other hand,one can not argue "adenalin factor" out of one side of one's mouth...while simultaneously parroting the NRA position that more guns in more hands makes us somehow safer...It is rediculous to hold both positions.From Sanity I expect rediculousness.....Why you are defending both sides of these contradictary stances I have no idea.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 7:06:21 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The cop was a no good racist bastard who had no business being armed by any government agency....and just did what comes natural to an armed racist when face with an unarmed black man lying prone in front of him.



That's a really bad attempt at justification. D minus, did not fulfill the requirements of the assignment.

quote:


In reality I have no idea what was in this cops mind....what I do know is we ask these peopl(LEO's) to do a difficult and trying job.
I understand that.....on the other hand,one can not argue "adenalin factor" out of one side of one's mouth...while simultaneously parroting the NRA position that more guns in more hands makes us somehow safer...It is rediculous to hold both positions.From Sanity I expect rediculousness.....Why you are defending both sides of these contradictary stances I have no idea.


I don't see the contradiction, and I haven't said a single thing about concealed carry laws.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 7:15:50 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The cop was a no good racist bastard who had no business being armed by any government agency....and just did what comes natural to an armed racist when face with an unarmed black man lying prone in front of him.



That's a really bad attempt at justification. D minus, did not fulfill the requirements of the assignment.

quote:


In reality I have no idea what was in this cops mind....what I do know is we ask these peopl(LEO's) to do a difficult and trying job.
I understand that.....on the other hand,one can not argue "adenalin factor" out of one side of one's mouth...while simultaneously parroting the NRA position that more guns in more hands makes us somehow safer...It is rediculous to hold both positions.From Sanity I expect rediculousness.....Why you are defending both sides of these contradictary stances I have no idea.


I don't see the contradiction, and I haven't said a single thing about concealed carry laws.
Sorry Elisabela but I really have no interest in your grading system....you sought to turn this into a silly game of choose your scenario and I followed along.You don't like my scenario...fine,but whether or not you feel it was a "bad attempt at justification" is irrelevant.
Some might feel that this cops "taser" story reeks to high heavens.
As far as concealed carry laws.....I feel I made the link quite clear when I first attacked Sanity's lame .and selective,use of "adenalin factor".If you didn't get my reasoning the first time hru...perhaps rereading it will help.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 7:23:19 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Sorry Elisabela but I really have no interest in your grading system....you sought to turn this into a silly game of choose your scenario and I followed along.You don't like my scenario...fine,but whether or not you feel it was a "bad attempt at justification" is irrelevant.


Whoa there dude it was your idea:

quote:

Tell you what Elisabella you dream up a reasonable justification for my scenario......and I will try my dammest to come up with a reasonable justification for the bullit in the back of an unarmed prone lying young man
Which one of us has the harder job?


I disagree with you that this shooting was intentional.

C'est fini.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Jury Verdict: Oakland BART shooting was involuntar... - 7/9/2010 7:27:44 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Would you like to outlaw everything a person might have trouble with under the influence of adrenalin, mike?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sorry.....shooting a man,lying prone on the ground,in the back goes way beyond stupidity to me.
Lets flip the script......lets make it a cop lying on the ground,unarmed ...while a black man,fuck it any color you choose,is standing over him......the police officer winds up dead with a bullit in his back.
The defendant claims he didn't mean to pull the trigger....."the adrenalin factor" sort of grabbed him and supplied the 6lbs. of pressure.
How does that play out in a courtroom?


< Message edited by Sanity -- 7/9/2010 7:29:07 PM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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