RE: Master is Servant

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DarkSteven -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 4:46:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Most people slave/work their lives away to acquire more material things to their endless pitifull uncreative wants and so rape the soil they live on. You're going to try to make me feel guilty for eating and for not being on relief? [sm=wtf.gif]

hopelesslyInvo -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 4:46:20 AM)
quote: My work is always a work of art and perfection. Art is work also. quote: I just believe many people are superficial in their perspective of the absolute truth. we all see what you're trying to pull off, but you're not going to be convincing anyone of it today. to hell with 'getting caught up with what the words mean', at the rate you're going all you're going to convince people of is that you don't know what the words mean. at least not the words master, slave, serve, perfection, art, love, work, superficial, greater, perspective, complete, philosophy, absolute, or truth- to say the least. perhaps your wisdom and insight can blow our minds and turn our entire concept of reality upside down at a later date? it doesn't seem up to the challenge today~ in other words... welcome to the forums; we love new people and we enjoyed your introduction more than the people who say "hi my name is bob, i like boobies", but your attempt to be rhetorically astute with exercising connotative semantics in the verbosity of convoluted detachment towards the definition of the very words you speak as well as in your logical fallacies you've wrought by flexing your mistaken hubris isn't working out so well. quote: Dont be caught up in what words mean

LadyConstanze -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 4:47:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani This thread is posted for all to delve in the D/s dynamics In a way I believe that the master or mistress actually serves the slave. Take for instance a painslut. Who is doing all the work? Exactly the D works for the slaves pleasure... I have more to say about this but I first would like to see some reactions. You know, you could stop for a minute and think that it's at least 2 people involved and it's a symbiotic relationship, without a slave no master/mistress relationship, and that goes for the bottom as well as the top. When I'm taking a walk for my pleasure, I don't think I'm doing work, when I'm playing with somebody and enjoy it (if I don't I stop), I don't think I'm doing all the work. And if you feel or believe differently, well, that's you, doesn't mean we all have to agree or share your view.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 4:49:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 blows Focus YOU SLUT!!!

marie2 -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 4:57:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani In holland prostitution is legal. So its just where you live to make such an example. Its kinda strange that it is honorable to be a soldier and kill for a living and it is dishonorable( this is percieved by many) to have sex for a living. A debate on what's honorable or dishonorable can go on endlessly due to the subjectiveness of such a topic. You're letting your own topic slip away from you. Getting back on track........Even if pimping and whoring is legal in some places, do you honestly think that the pimp or whore isn't making some effort, doing or giving something, or otherwise "working" for the money they earn? quote: Most people slave/work their lives away to acquire more material things to their endless pitifull uncreative wants and so rape the soil they live on. To me thats like shitting in your own kitchen. But I guess that another topic "Pitiful uncreative" wants? Like what? A home over their heads, food on the table, clothing and education for their children? Dude, take off the dark glasses and let some light in.

MrBukani -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 5:03:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hopelesslyInvo quote: My work is always a work of art and perfection. Art is work also. quote: I just believe many people are superficial in their perspective of the absolute truth. we all see what you're trying to pull off, but you're not going to be convincing anyone of it today. to hell with 'getting caught up with what the words mean', at the rate you're going all you're going to convince people of is that you don't know what the words mean. at least not the words master, slave, serve, perfection, art, love, work, superficial, greater, perspective, complete, philosophy, absolute, or truth- to say the least. perhaps your wisdom and insight can blow our minds and turn our entire concept of reality upside down at a later date? it doesn't seem up to the challenge today~ in other words... welcome to the forums; we love new people and we enjoyed your introduction more than the people who say "hi my name is bob, i like boobies", but your attempt to be rhetorically astute with exercising connotative semantics in the verbosity of convoluted detachment towards the definition of the very words you speak as well as in your logical fallacies you've wrought by flexing your mistaken hubris isn't working out so well. quote: Dont be caught up in what words mean Like I said I am here to learn how people percieve things. If you think different that is your choice. I didnt know you knew that all know what I am doing here, lol. And it would be nice to not use to many difficult words cos I am dutch and not native speaking english. Can you translate the last paragraph in plain english for us less eloquent in your language? I only use fancy words when they are really needed, but I think you are attempting to outclass me by using these words. Life is pretty simple, but it is politicians who use this kinda language to put a veil over the truth. Yes this is sort of reverse psychology and yes I love these kinda discussions.

MrBukani -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 5:18:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani In holland prostitution is legal. So its just where you live to make such an example. Its kinda strange that it is honorable to be a soldier and kill for a living and it is dishonorable( this is percieved by many) to have sex for a living. A debate on what's honorable or dishonorable can go on endlessly due to the subjectiveness of such a topic. You're letting your own topic slip away from you. Getting back on track........Even if pimping and whoring is legal in some places, do you honestly think that the pimp or whore isn't making some effort, doing or giving something, or otherwise "working" for the money they earn? quote: Most people slave/work their lives away to acquire more material things to their endless pitifull uncreative wants and so rape the soil they live on. To me thats like shitting in your own kitchen. But I guess that another topic "Pitiful uncreative" wants? Like what? A home over their heads, food on the table, clothing and education for their children? Dude, take off the dark glasses and let some light in. Of course but its the amount of workload we take on and the type of work we do, what defines who we are. And I am not talkin of basic needs. I am talkin of the allconsuming needless wants that a lot of people have like ferrari's and having hundreds of pairs of shoes and eating pounds of meat a day. But you knew that. I agree to disagree and I am not here to convince anybody that their reality is not real. I am challeging people to think twice though. I see people agree and disagree with me and have their own view and thats the beauty of learning about people and perceptions.

hopelesslyInvo -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 5:27:36 AM)
oh, lol your degree of english comprehension does give more flexibility to what you're saying, since i know now that we have to interpret it in at least some degree to try and understand what you're trying to communicate. you speak it well enough that i wouldn't have pinned english as being a second language for you; many americans and the like come in here that can't speak it half as well as you do. you weren't supposed to understand the last paragraph though, even the people who fluently speak it as a primary language were meant to be confused by my words, but they would understand the point i was making by being so fancy with them; it was illustrating the perception you're giving~ it seems like you're trying far too hard to convince us of how smart you are, but nothing you say is making a whole lot of sense. you seem to be tossing words and ideas around that don't make logically fit when put together, and then standing back as if to say "tada, the rabbit is now back in my hat". it's just not a performance that people applaud too often. i will say to you that people here (on the forums at least) generally have taken their perception of things closer to a 3rd or 4th level, well past the initial appearances of things, or these mirrored comparisons you're presenting us with here. but no, i'm not trying to outclass you; just trying to remind you that we're all under the same clouds, and that our heads aren't supposed to be in them.

mnottertail -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 5:29:11 AM)
Well, lets consider the TPE dynamic. From here a myriad of variations come into play and as many analogies. If someone hands you the power, and you do not accept the mantle, the ball is dropped, n'est ce pas? So, how do you determine in the circle where it starts and ends, its a continuum. Even if you start at different speeds initially, where one is already riding the merry go round and another is running alongside and eventually latches on and comes alongside you............. The notion of womens submission is wholly fantasy; they're just dominating from the long way 'round. You will find your servant is your Master. StingMaster LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

marie2 -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 5:34:00 AM)
Point is, nobody gets a free ride. Whether it's a relationship (of any flavor), a job, or whatever, we're all the server and the servee in one way or another.

mnottertail -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 5:35:51 AM)
Ja, it's a 'it takes two to tango' dealio.........all the way.

MrBukani -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 5:57:49 AM)
to hopelesslyInvo: That was a very well written reply and to be honest I did get most of it cos most fancy words are latin and the same in every language. But seriously I do believe in the concept I have laid out here. I want my slaves to enjoy themselves in the ultimate way possible and in that regard I am servicing them. I do also enjoy the sadism but the gratification is mostly in the perfectly performed act wich drives the slave totally wild wich in return will give me thrilling carnal pleasure. To each his own. But I do truly believe that in a loving relationship this is the truth of things. Maybe not for all but I think many just dont realize it yet. And it doesnt demean my skills or status as master in my perception. It actually shows more respect for my partner and understanding of what gratification we are aiming for. The thought just played with me for some time and as you can see from the posts some do agree on one or another level. So the concept of it is not very outragous although it does sound that way, how I have presented it. I thought it was interesting. To mnottertail that is so fuckin true for some people. I am still laughing...

lally2 -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 6:05:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani I just wonder if you don't enjoy the pain in any way, what it is that makes you accept it. I think you enjoy not the pain but the knowledge of joy it gives your master. So in a way you do enjoy it. I would never assume it is the same for everyone. I am just exploring your views on the matter on how people percieve things. im really not sure what youre saying with regard to this whole thread to be honest. are you saying that if the sub is enjoying some or all elements then its not really submission. so - step away from that for a brief moment - forget the BDSM elements) - submission isnt ALL about BDSM for those in Ds or Ms relationships. for me certainly, it is submission to my Dominant as the man i trust and wish to be fully open to and available to emotionally, mentally, spiritually and physically - now bring BDSM back into the mix - in that state of submission, open emotionally, mentally, spiritually and physically what we do together, what He does to me, the things we engage in ARE pleasurable to each other. some might not be, but even so, on some level i need what He wants to give me, be that simply my submission to His needs to use me in whatever way grabs Him or something more obviously sensual and pleasurable to me. and yes, submissives get a high from giving themselves over to the pleasure of their Dominant - even if its something hard to submit to. thats how we're wired. so basically 'no' to youre original question - though i cant help feeling you dont want to believe us. could it be that maybe you have switchy needs too and youre getting fuddled up a bit. just a thought.

MrBukani -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 6:31:40 AM)
To Lally I am not talkin about submission and yes i do have a switchside. It is just an observation of how we can percieve things differently. I adore women and used to be a sub. But I realized that mainly in the sexual pleasures she was actually servicing my needs and worked her ass of to please my sexual desires. The dominant needs to put in a lot of work while slaves just sit back tied up and enjoy themselves Now when a woman introduced me later on in life to being her master i felt the same sensation from the other end. The amount of work I put in to tie her up whip her in the right places etc. is a lotta work and being very creative. Wich leads me to think the doms do most of the work and in this way I percieve to service her deep desire. I stated master is servant not master is slave. So I do think you all get what I am really saying. I dont mean to demean any sort of dynamics others have. The way I feel about this makes me understand the deeper layers of how the mind really works. And it brings more respect in my opinion to a relationship. And well you know there is a lot of misguided people in the bdsm world. And true understanding of how pleasures are exchanged, just like control and power is exchanged. I know it might sound awkward but hey I am delving in perception here. Perception is one of the most contradictive realities in this world.

lally2 -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 6:45:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani To Lally I am not talkin about submission and yes i do have a switchside. It is just an observation of how we can percieve things differently. I adore women and used to be a sub. But I realized that mainly in the sexual pleasures she was actually servicing my needs and worked her ass of to please my sexual desires. The dominant needs to put in a lot of work while slaves just sit back tied up and enjoy themselves Now when a woman introduced me later on in life to being her master i felt the same sensation from the other end. The amount of work I put in to tie her up whip her in the right places etc. is a lotta work and being very creative. Wich leads me to think the doms do most of the work and in this way I percieve to service her deep desire. I stated master is servant not master is slave. So I do think you all get what I am really saying. I dont mean to demean any sort of dynamics others have. The way I feel about this makes me understand the deeper layers of how the mind really works. And it brings more respect in my opinion to a relationship. And well you know there is a lot of misguided people in the bdsm world. And true understanding of how pleasures are exchanged, just like control and power is exchanged. I know it might sound awkward but hey I am delving in perception here. Perception is one of the most contradictive realities in this world. okay, but i still think youre perception is very much ego-centric. you seem to be coming from the 'me' perspective and thats ok, lots do. if you look at those relationships and think in terms of the 'us' then you might realise that what youre Domme was doing was giving her immense pleasure. the details and fringes of what she got from playing with you made her all fuzzy too. with the sub, her pleasure was in giving you her body, but if she'd thought for a moment that you were thinking 'man this is hard work' her pleasure would have disintegrated in nano seconds. encorporate the 'us' a bit more and see how that works on youre perception levels. [:)]

MrBukani -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 6:54:26 AM)
That is actually what I mean. I think its less ego centric to watch it from my point of view. I dont think man this is hard work, but it is a lotta work to keep sex creative and exciting. Thats why the bdsm world has been growing like cabbage the past ten years. There is a certain amount of pride in working and providing etc. Pride is a word i use very little because it is so close to prestige and often very ego centric. I think you hit the right button here and it is exactly what I was aming for. Honor is above pride in my book.

subsfaith -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 7:09:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani I just wonder if you don't enjoy the pain in any way, what it is that makes you accept it. I think you enjoy not the pain but the knowledge of joy it gives your master. So in a way you do enjoy it. I would never assume it is the same for everyone. I am just exploring your views on the matter on how people percieve things. If you are here MrBukani to learn from others perhaps you should stop telling people how they think and feel. One learns much better by listening than talking. I accept it because that is part of my role within our dynamic. And you are once again mistaken, no I do not enjoy it, even if he is getting pleasure from it. If you didn't believe it was the same for everyone you would refrain from making blanket statements, such as: quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani I believe that the master or mistress actually serves the slave. While the dominant does, at times, have a great deal of work to do, I find that my workload as a submissive is just as great, however our roles are so different I don't believe they can be compared effectively in the simple terms you are talking about. Comparing apples and oranges is common but it never works. quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Wich leads me to think the doms do most of the work and in this way I percieve to service her deep desire. I stated master is servant not master is slave. So I do think you all get what I am really saying. Despite me saying that it is not the case in my OP, you continue to say the same thing and inform us that we understand you.

NorthernGent -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 7:19:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani The dominant needs to put in a lot of work while slaves just sit back tied up and enjoy themselves. This seems to be the meat of your post as it's a bit of a theme for you. Think about why 'dominants' are putting in that 'work'. It ain't borne out of a desire to toil for little reward.....that would be serfdom or something or other. Seems you're not getting a great deal of pleasure out of it.....and where you think it's a chore to be creative......then perhaps you're the type who likes cast iron rules that leave little room for maneouvre/improvisation...and perhaps a service orientated submissive is more your style....you know...doing the cleaning and cooking etc....so you can sit back and not do a great deal in order to feel 'served'. I know you talked of 'challenging views' somewhere or other.....I'd imagine that there's a lot of reading and chatting done...and as such people will challenge and revisit their opinions as a matter of course.....so a prompt from you isn't neccesarily a watershed in these matters.....and to be frank...you're barking up the wrong tree with the idea that 'pleasure' is the domain of he submissive. In sum: both parties have to derive pleasure/something which they value from the relationship.....and it does not follow that 'Master is Servant'.

BitaTruble -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 7:21:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani This thread is posted for all to delve in the D/s dynamics In a way I believe that the master or mistress actually serves the slave. Take for instance a painslut. Who is doing all the work? Exactly the D works for the slaves pleasure... I have more to say about this but I first would like to see some reactions. I would like to qualify this by saying that I am not a mistress, a dominant or a master and, ew, I just hate sweating when I top. I'm a simple sadist, with simple tastes and honestly, it takes almost no effort at all to snap some alligators to the nipples, labia etc., then attach a few weights if desired and set about doing what I love most about topping.. start the blood flow with strategic knife or needle play or maybe use a buggy whip to create some lines to throw some colored wax in between (I'm such a girl.. I love to color!) .. really, not much effort at all. If my target derives pleasure from what I do, I don't begrude it and think it's great for them but I don't top or flex my sadistic artistry for their benefit... I do it for mine and it's not work. There are times when there is absolutely nothing involved but a sadistic mindfuck.. no physical effort even expended.. and that's not work either. Great, now I want a target! ::chuckles:: I need to stay off the boards sometime. MMV

MrBukani -> RE: Master is Servant (7/17/2010 7:23:36 AM)
To subsfaith I just make an assumption in order to see if you might enjoy pleasing your master and if you would derive pleasure from that dynamic, because it interests me. I do read every post so I do listen. And I do believe people understand what i am saying here, i am not talking swahili am I? I am not here to tell you how you feel. I was just interested if you derive pleasure from your masters pleasure. It would sound very logical to me. If not ok. To understand is not to agree. I could have formed it like a question but it was a thought that I think is very understandable. This is an exerxise in pure psychology and maybe it will open some minds. Maybe not.

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