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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 7:24:10 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		In any good and healthy relationship, you both serve the relationship.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 7:48:03 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Of course the headline was contradictive
If I would have made a topic I LOVE BIG TITS what kinda stupid discussion would that be.
No it wouldnt even be a discussion.
The topic is not an absolute truth but it is a confrontation of how the mind can be wired.
I saw some interesting views and the best one was somebody who said that both serve the relationship and that was kind of the idea I was hoping for. So to me it was a succes. Even those who not agree have thought me a lot too.
So thank you all.


(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 8:04:12 AM   
subsfaith


Posts: 297
Joined: 11/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
I just make an assumption in order to see if you might enjoy pleasing your master and if you would derive pleasure from that dynamic,

Why make that assumption when I have already told you I don't enjoy it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
I do read every post so I do listen.

See above... you read what I wrote and assumed the opposite... how is that listening?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
And I do believe people understand what i am saying here, i am not talking swahili am I?

I completely understand the words you are using, and I don't agree with you, so no, I don't get you!



(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 8:10:45 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		well then dont enjoy it.
then what do you enjoy about serving your master?

I cant really help the fact that you dont get it. Maybe you have trouble stepping in someone elses shoes and understanding other peoples views.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 7/17/2010 8:12:52 AM >

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 8:30:31 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

And in the case of work you might say you dont slave for your boss but that is interpetation. Most people dont like their jobs and would rather do something else. For instance you can be a master at home but at work you just follow orders. You come home and buy your slave a new catsuit. A pimp whores out his pro's and they work for him. Now who is the greater master in this equasion?


You're getting to the nuts and bolts about how my interpretation of M/s and others vastly differs. I seek a leader and that means an individual in possession of the skill sets that constitutes good leadership and experiences that substantiate this outside of the home. It is very important that he's getting that fix elsewhere and I'm not the sole or only option where he can be in charge. I don't serve men that are dominant only. He must be a leader that dominates his partner. The allure of power isn't as intoxicating when you're accustomed to having it in some respects.

In terms of your example, I'd wonder what commitment was more important than his happiness. Since the men I consider are single and unattached, remaining in a position where he's miserable will inevitably become my problem. Who do you think he'll ramble on and on about it to? If the man can't do what he loves or is held captive due to irresponsible behavior that prevents him from doing such, I probably wouldn't entertain him. That doesn't dismiss the fact that work has it's challenges. But he's single and I don't date men with children so it would be a real head scratcher in all truth.

~porcelaine


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His will; my fate.

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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 8:38:32 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelesslyInvo

quote:


My work is always a work of art and perfection. Art is work also.


quote:


I just believe many people are superficial in their perspective of the absolute truth.


we all see what you're trying to pull off, but you're not going to be convincing anyone of it today. 

to hell with 'getting caught up with what the words mean', at the rate you're going all you're going to convince people of is that you don't know what the words mean. 

at least not the words master, slave, serve, perfection, art, love, work, superficial, greater, perspective, complete, philosophy, absolute, or truth- to say the least.

perhaps your wisdom and insight can blow our minds and turn our entire concept of reality upside down at a later date?  it doesn't seem up to the challenge today~

in other words...

welcome to the forums; we love new people and we enjoyed your introduction more than the people who say "hi my name is bob, i like boobies", but your attempt to be rhetorically astute with exercising connotative semantics in the verbosity of convoluted detachment towards the definition of the very words you speak as well as in your logical fallacies you've wrought by flexing your mistaken hubris isn't working out so well.

quote:


Dont be caught up in what words mean




Oh, SNAP!! Great reply. You gotta love a man who utilizes our entire lexicon.

(in reply to hopelesslyInvo)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 8:41:09 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Of course the headline was contradictive
If I would have made a topic I LOVE BIG TITS what kinda stupid discussion would that be.
No it wouldnt even be a discussion.
The topic is not an absolute truth but it is a confrontation of how the mind can be wired.
I saw some interesting views and the best one was somebody who said that both serve the relationship and that was kind of the idea I was hoping for. So to me it was a succes. Even those who not agree have thought me a lot too.
So thank you all.




What is so contradictive? Isn't power exchange by it's very nature a symbiotic one? As far as I am concerned most relationships on the planet are run this way.

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 8:50:47 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
It is just an observation of how we can percieve things differently. I adore women and used to be a sub. But I realized that mainly in the sexual pleasures she was actually servicing my needs and worked her ass of to please my sexual desires. The dominant needs to put in a lot of work while slaves just sit back tied up and enjoy themselves Now when a woman introduced me later on in life to being her master i felt the same sensation from the other end. The amount of work I put in to tie her up whip her in the right places etc. is a lotta work and being very creative. Wich leads me to think the doms do most of the work and in this way I percieve to service her deep desire.



None of what you described above would I equate with being master or slave. What is described above is all about topping and bottoming. I don't consider someone to be dominant or Master just because they are the top in a scene or in play, so the top might actually be the 'slave' in the relationship.

For the three of us, M/s is about who has the authority and not who is doing the action. In our relationship, he has the authority to make the decisions and Alandra and I do not. Authority is the deciding factor for us and not service or work.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 9:06:30 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Good point kyra the one who holds authority is the leader.
Service is a two way street IMO though.
When a man works his ass of 10 hours a day and the woman is at home doing chores I would know for sure wich one I would prefer.
But maybe some people are workaholics. I am not for sure. I live my life for pleasure not work.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 9:22:03 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

What is described above is all about topping and bottoming.


This was exactly my thought as I was reading through this thread. The discussion had nothing to do with M/s, in my view, and everything to do with enjoying physical proclivities. 

If the man never laid a hand on me again, he would still be my ruler.  I would still do what he says. He would still have authority over me.

I do agree with the last thing MrBukani said, though, that service is a two-way street.  We serve our relationship, and in doing so, we serve each other since we both benefit greatly from the relationship.  As for the physical enjoyment, the man gets just as much pleasure taking a paddle or whip to me as I do from receiving it and trying to process it without jumping away.  It isn't work for either of us - it's enjoyment, bonding, releasing, liberating, and loving.  Sorry but I don't see any work involved in it.


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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 9:39:16 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Art is hard work as well. We might say physical labour( activities ) is not work. You might play football and say its not work. But for the pro's sport is work. So how we define work is dependent on the circumstance.
Now release yourself from language and see the interactions.
Da Vinci is an artist who was an apprentice first at had to slave his ass of to become a master.
But here people just call themselves lord or master or whatever because they are dominant.
Dominants to me are the bullies we had in school like a sadist. There is nothing they have really mastered but their own selfish needs.
Do you think van Gogh cut of his ear for fun?
When I say work your ass off do you think I am talkin of a job?

(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 9:45:23 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Art is hard work as well. We might say physical labour( activities ) is not work. You might play football and say its not work. But for the pro's sport is work. So how we define work is dependent on the circumstance.
Now release yourself from language and see the interactions.
Da Vinci is an artist who was an apprentice first at had to slave his ass of to become a master.
But here people just call themselves lord or master or whatever because they are dominant.
Dominants to me are the bullies we had in school like a sadist. There is nothing they have really mastered but their own selfish needs.
Do you think van Gogh cut of his ear for fun?
When I say work your ass off do you think I am talkin of a job?


...because they consider themselves dominant. Now they need someone that validates that through their willingness to submit to him.

And no, I have never believed calling oneself dominant means you've mastered anything save acquiring a new self descriptor.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 10:21:45 AM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
I adore women and used to be a sub. But I realized that mainly in the sexual pleasures she was actually servicing my needs and worked her ass of to please my sexual desires. The dominant needs to put in a lot of work while slaves just sit back tied up and enjoy themselves

That has more to do with BDSM/fetish play (or misconceptions born of Femdom porn) and 0% to do with M/s in the real world.

Master is servant? Of course not. Master as symbiant? Yes.

If you feel like you're working at being a Master or Mistress—if it feels like a necessary burden to keep things "fresh" and "exciting" for the so-called "slave", I can say only this:





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MarcEsadrian -- 7/17/2010 10:24:04 AM >

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 11:25:52 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		I never used the word burden.
I think I said I see my work as an artform so i do enjoy it.
But think of it in conservative form then.
The mineworker works his ass off and dies younger then the woman at home.
Why does the man die earlier then the woman. Cause HE WORKS HIMSELF TO DEATH.
So in facto he is serving his wife.
Now some people just dont want to get it because it would undermine their little wittle feelings.
And if I have to make myself any more clear the sun will start shining out my ass.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 7/17/2010 11:27:10 AM >

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 11:42:56 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Does the artist serve the canvas? I think not. The canvas is a tool. However, both serve the art form.

Pretty much what others have said but in different words.

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I give good thread.

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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 11:56:42 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian






is that for real!! - did he really do that and not realise as he posed for the pic -  ))))  - how very funny!! - he must hate that picture!

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 1:02:26 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Does the artist serve the canvas? I think not. The canvas is a tool. However, both serve the art form.

Pretty much what others have said but in different words.
Maybe you see your sub as a tool where I see it is a blank canvas.
Nice eh metaphores?

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
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RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 1:18:35 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
I never used the word burden.

You seem to associate being Master with "serving" the slave, working your "ass off", as you put it, to service the slave's desires. I would call that a burdensome and altogether subversive take on M/s, and I'm being nice, mind you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
I think I said I see my work as an artform so i do enjoy it.

Don't get me wrong; I understand artists intuitively, as I am one in more than the traditional medium, but the artist analogy, while poetic and "deep", isn't very helpful when talking about what consensual slavery actually entails.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
The mineworker works his ass off and dies younger then the woman at home.
Why does the man die earlier then the woman. Cause HE WORKS HIMSELF TO DEATH.
So in facto he is serving his wife.

Interesting observations, and Warren Farrell would no doubt concur regarding mortality contrasts of traditional sex roles. What husbands do for their wives or what artists do with their canvases has nothing to do with M/s, however—at least, the M/s I know. Instead of making abstract analogies that only serve to smuggle in confusion or inviting everyone in on a metaphorical circle jerk, why not discuss what a Master/Mistress and slave basically is? Opinions will vary, of course, and it seems most of us agree M/s is a symbiosis of some form, but in the end, I think a basic consensus can be reached. The likelihood of a consensus declaring the Master is a servant and works his ass off to serve the slave is fairly dim, I'd posit. If you insist this is true, however, I will disagree strongly, and it has nothing to do with little wittle feelings being undermined.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
And if I have to make myself any more clear the sun will start shining out my ass.

That may only occur due to the fact there is a hole running from the top of your head to your ass. But I'm optimistic; I sense you understand what I'm saying.


_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 1:21:02 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian



is that for real!! - did he really do that and not realise as he posed for the pic -  ))))  - how very funny!! - he must hate that picture!

*Laughs

Given the character, it's entirely possible, but I suspect this image is brought to you by the magic of Photoshop.


_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Master is Servant - 7/17/2010 1:49:29 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		To Marc
I was just looking if some people understand my point of view.
Like a couple people said both serve the relationship. That was the kinda response i was really aiming for. Again I did not say master is slave. I am just delving the mind for more intricate patterns that co exist.
We all serve a purpose. And to look at it from my point of view brings more respect to the sub IMO. And we all know this site is riddled with fakes posers wannabees and many psychos. Plus the fact that BDSM can be a powerfull all consuming addiction.
5 years ago most people wanted bdsm as an extra and now most people want it 24/7.
I am posting this out of respect for the subs.

We all have different views. Some just roleplay and some are just kinky and for some its a 24/7 lifestyle.
If one takes the statement too far of course the logic is gone. But it is for certain true that we all service certain desires.
And there is more dynamics to the psychology of a full circle.
And if you are still being nice to say i talk outta my ass, well thank you for such an insight.
Do you really think I care if you get my drift or not?
But I wont start with meaningless insults. That is just to easy.
The harder you object the more you think about it and I am sure something will stick to your subconcious.
tata

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
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