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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 3:47:25 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut

I NEVER claimed it was MY definiation of what an alpha male in the animal kingdom was. It was a general defiition. Get over it, people copy definitions all the time on here.
I love the following poem, but I would never post it somewhere and not indicate it was written by Rumi, not me. 

I am part of the load
Not rightly balanced
I drop off in the grass,
like the old Cave-sleepers, to browse
wherever I fall.
For hundreds of thousands of years I have been dust-grains
floating and flying in the will of the air,
often forgetting ever being
in that state, but in sleep
I migrate back. I spring loose
from the four-branched, time -and-space cross,
this waiting room.
I walk into a huge pasture
I nurse the milk of millennia
Everyone does this in different ways.
Knowing that conscious decisions
and personal memory
are much too small a place to live,
every human being streams at night
into the loving nowhere, or during the day,
in some absorbing work

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 4:17:34 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		I think there are two forms of alpha men. I find the sort that many are describing is the more benevolent version. I'm more accustomed to the opposite and find he's less common but the image many aspire towards when the alpha image comes to mind. I'll preface this by saying I'm viewing this from direct experience with people in industries that typically attract this character type.

In my opinion...

Alphas are in their role because they're willing to make waves. This isn't kum-ba-yah and he makes no bones about it. He can be incredibly pompous, a hidden narcissist with an inherent belief in his entitlement, ruthless and cutthroat beyond compare to anyone that gets in his way or attempts to invade his turf, often unapologetic, domineering in his relationships, an unashamed elitist, convinced of his infallibility, harbors a belief in his own divinity as a state of perfect godhood, sexually conquering, a womanizer (in some instances), materialistic, rarely impressed, not prone to giving compliments, bitingly sarcastic, condescending (which often comes in the guise of humor), a sense of betterment in regard to his peers, a workaholic, exploitative, close-minded, charismatic, and definite in his decision-making. His way trumps all.

While he is capable of accomplishing many things through hard work and tenacity, he will do so at the expense of others in a heartbeat. He likes wresting power out of other people's hands and it isn't uncommon for him to develop a fixation with women that have strong personalities. He enjoys the challenge and delights in conquering her. More than anything he lives for the kill. His killer instinct is one of the motivating elements behind his attraction to risk and appreciation for adrenaline rushing exploits.

Power can be addicting and in spite of his failings he can exhibit positive traits and be sincerely concerned with the well being of those within his inner circle. However, there's a Jekyll and Hyde element that's unmistakable. I don't know if it's an inability to reconcile his two selves or simply a refusal to part with the negative in exchange for more positive attributes. They're interesting characters to behold, but dealing with them can prove challenging or down right annoying for those with a different mindset. While I don't believe this behavior is indicative of all men at the top of business and industry, for many in that position it is par for the course.

~porcelaine


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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 5:33:27 PM   
submissivemale22


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/4/2008
From: CinCity
Status: offline 		anyone who purports to be such is most surely not.

anecdote- there was a kid in high school named "dan". dan bestowed upon himself the nickname "D'Man" (as in Dan 'D Man' Lastname). nobody took him seriously thereafter.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 5:55:40 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		I've never known anyone that I thought of as "alpha".  I either like someone or I don't.  Even I have a hard time figuring out what kind of person I get along with, because it really just depends on the person.  Sometimes it may depend on which personality of mine has control, but I mostly maintain-lol.

That said, the only men I can think of when I think of the word alpha are ones who proclaimed it them selves.  I can't think of one who proclaimed it that I cared for.  The one that came to mind first is Ted Nugent.  I mean I can orgasm from Stranglehold, but he is a dickhead.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:03:22 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Okay I FOUND the rant. Holy CRAP, Inky!! You had to know you were dumping out a tub of shit with that one!

I have to say that for myself, I have never associated arrogance, rudeness, and crass use of force with the term "alpha". I am going to keep my own counsel on the rest.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:21:32 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

So how do YOU define the term alpha male?


A submissive male who makes $200K a year or more, is ripped physically, holds a management position, but who submits to his one true dominant -- for whom he cleans house, cooks meals, runs errands, and otherwise never plays golf or poker with his male friends except when business requires it.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:31:23 PM   
cloudboy


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My real time experience with Alphas does not involve narcissism -- it involves men who truly excel at what they do -- and they lead from a true position of strength -- as opposed to tactics, gamesmanship, and backstabbing.

Your description reads more like a negatively "ambitious" male. Although they may win battles to achieve status -- this type at its heart is always trying to mask weaknesses and self doubt.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:32:50 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


My real time experience with Alphas does not involve narcissism -- it involves men who truly excel at what they do -- and they lead from a true position of strength -- as opposed to tactics, gamesmanship, and backstabbing.

Your description reads more like a negatively "ambitious" male. Although they may win battles to achieve status -- this type at its heart is always trying to mask weaknesses and self doubt.



How does this mesh with your earlier post? It seems to negate the attempt at sarcasm.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:35:06 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Okay I FOUND the rant. Holy CRAP, Inky!! You had to know you were dumping out a tub of shit with that one!

I have to say that for myself, I have never associated arrogance, rudeness, and crass use of force with the term "alpha". I am going to keep my own counsel on the rest.


I believe nature is balanced and man chooses how he will put his talents to use. Some take the road less traveled and make a valiant attempt to benefit others and some elect the opposite and become wholly focused on self serving pursuits. Neither decision would negate his ability to lead, but demonstrates how he went about it instead.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:40:18 PM   
RedStapler


Posts: 62
Joined: 6/15/2010
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:


An alpha male is the one who, when he sees a fire in a crowded building, yells FIRE and organises the evacuation.
A beta male sees the fire, wonders briefly if he should say anything, feels relieved when someone yells 'Fire' and evacuates in an orderly fashion.
A gamma male pushes grandparents and children out of the way to get out.
A super-alpha caused the fire in the first place by smoking under the 'Danger: Flammable Materials' sign 'cuz, like, shit, man, no-one tells him what to do.


What do you call the man who gets the fire extinguisher, puts out the fire, then goes back to whatever it was he was doing before?

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:41:44 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		I thought about ignoring this thread, but I decided to add a few thoughts.

Firstly, it's obvious that some of you were offended by the OP.  Okay, fine.  That has been voiced.  But instead of moving on, some of you seem to be holding a grudge, and your comments are getting a bit petty.  DIS understands that some of you disagree with her OP.  We all understand this.  Is it necessary to continue attacking her?  I'm just sayin'.....

Having said that, here are my thoughts on the question at hand.  I think is isn't realistic to say that there are no such things as alpha males.  Clearly they exist.  However, there are many variations on the theme.  There can be many sources of their "alpha-ness" (heeheee, I made up a word).

Take Bill Gates for example.  In our capitalist society, many would consider him (and other very wealthy men) to be alpha males.  That is one possible definition.  It is clear that they do have the ability to do things that other males cannot do, and that gives them an advantage, and makes them more desirable to some females.

However, if you were to go back to the boys locker room in high school, I'd be willing to bet that Bill Gates was given more than his share of "wedgies".  So from a physical dominance standpoint, he would definitely NOT be considered "alpha".  In that regard, the big, strong, guy who can kick everyone else's arse might be considered to be alpha.  Regardless of whether you think alpha status can be earned through brute strength, it is clear that even in highly evolved species, there are situations where the strongest do often rise to the top (and go unchallenged).  In those situations, he would have to be considered alpha.

In other situations, intellect my be the measure that qualifies one as being alpha.  For example, in a research and development oriented organization, an individual with lots of patents who is clearly viewed as being smarter than his peers might be considered "alpha".  I'm sure that there are certain programmers who are held in extremely high esteem by their peers at Microsoft.  In that environment, their superior intellect probably grants them alpha status.

When it comes to interacting with the opposite sex, the handsomest or most charming males might be viewed as "alpha", since they might be the ones who get the most desirable females.

In an organization, the person with inherent leadership skills, and the ability to get people to follow him/her might be considered to be "alpha", even though they may not be the strongest, or handsomest, or smartest.  The average CEO would probably fall into this category.

I'm sure that there are many more measures by which one might be considered to be "alpha".  But I think the ones that I have used make the point.

IMO, being "alpha" is situational.  In different situations, any of the variables that I mentioned might rise to the forefront.  Depending on which qualities are needed, a different type of male (or female) might emerge as "alpha".

The bottom line is that "alpha" is probably in the eye of the beholder.  That's why you're not likely to get consensus on a single definition.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:41:55 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedStapler

quote:


An alpha male is the one who, when he sees a fire in a crowded building, yells FIRE and organises the evacuation.
A beta male sees the fire, wonders briefly if he should say anything, feels relieved when someone yells 'Fire' and evacuates in an orderly fashion.
A gamma male pushes grandparents and children out of the way to get out.
A super-alpha caused the fire in the first place by smoking under the 'Danger: Flammable Materials' sign 'cuz, like, shit, man, no-one tells him what to do.


What do you call the man who gets the fire extinguisher, puts out the fire, then goes back to whatever it was he was doing before?




See, I was going to make a TOTALLY SEXIST statement here, entirely for the humor value, but I love your nic, so I will not take advantage.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:42:38 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


My real time experience with Alphas does not involve narcissism -- it involves men who truly excel at what they do -- and they lead from a true position of strength -- as opposed to tactics, gamesmanship, and backstabbing.

Your description reads more like a negatively "ambitious" male. Although they may win battles to achieve status -- this type at its heart is always trying to mask weaknesses and self doubt.


Your experience cannot possibly mirror mine. I indicated when I posted my comments that I was speaking from my personal perspective and experiences with individuals that I've encountered in my life. There are cultures that admonish these traits and others that are breeding grounds for its furtherance. And just because you haven't encountered narcissism in your walk of life doesn't mean it's not in existence. I'd see that a very shortsighted viewpoint in all truth.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:47:10 PM   
LdyyR


Posts: 160
Joined: 11/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut
So how do YOU define the term alpha male?


I don't, any longer.  There are too many assumptions behind the idea of alpha/beta men that I don't think bear any real interrogation.   One is that people look for easy corollaries from other species.  Humans aren't the same as gorillas, still less so wolves.  We don't operate the same way.  Human nature is not gorilla-nature or wolf-nature.  We have large, successful societies in which we control a huge amount of our environment.  Other species don't.  Humans are thousands of times more advanced than those other species.  We're also a lot more comfortable in our lives. We don't live day to day - generally - in fear for our lives.  Human life is not, again generally, 'nasty, brutish and short' (Hobbes).  Some might say it's almost embarrassingly silly to compare some pampered, western businessman who is a wow at his car-selling techniques with a wolf that's fought for it's life over and again to reach the top of the pack.  The second lives harshly in the wild.  The first is so distanced from such wild living that he's able to relax in his armchair and actually enjoy watching films about it on his telly - surrounded as he is with all the high-tech gadgetry that he's come to rely on for his survival.  He might think he's a grizzled, tough old wolf - but next to one of those he's an effete blob - as beta as it's possible to be beta.

Another thing is that this idea of 'alpha' and 'beta' provides simple categories that have passed into pop psychology just too easily for my liking.  Most of those pop-psychological bits of wisdom of the past have turned out to be crap.  I just have a strong idea that this way of categorising will go that way, too.  Beware those who flog business-psychology most of all.  Business psychologists make too much money feeding the vanity of people who will read what they want to read for me to trust what they have to say.  It's those sorts of psychologists, of course, who've retailed this 'alpha/beta' idea most of all. 

Lastly, humans have shown they're capable of a lot.  Arguably, a lot more than those other higher mammals.  Why on earth would we want to get into copying them by borrowing from the way they live in their societies?  Moreover, are there any species of animals that have alpha/beta structures and which are not at least endangered?  Why should we limit ourselves with these categories?

Nah.  No offence to you or your thread, DIS, but I've come too keenly to notice, these days, a certain incongruity.  This is that the wealthier and more comfortable people are, the more they're wont to talk about how their lives are 'just like those of (the nobler sorts of) animals.  The alpha/beta idea is a preoccupation of the opulent West.  For me, it's junk-food-psychology/anthropology.  Drivel, at bottom.



That's damn sexy, love it when you talk dirty.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 8:49:05 PM   
DaddysInkedSlut


Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you so much Rochsub,

I truly enjoyed reading your response, thank you for responding. I wasn't looking for a consensus, because I do believe this is something that is based on individual personal perceptions and is definately in the eye of the beholder.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 9:02:29 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline 		I don't really like the phrase "alpha male" because of what it means to most of the rest of society. I like alpha men, but it's a strain to sometimes because what I mean by alpha, not very many other people seem to mean. To me, alpha has nothing to do with gender, and the lack of ability in most people to disassociate "alpha" with "male" has me tentative about the whole thing. But eh, if other people are into it, cool.

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/18/2010 9:41:14 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		In my experience they are usually a self-aggrandizing macho asshole....YMMV

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/19/2010 3:53:52 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

Is it necessary to continue attacking her?  I'm just sayin'.....


No, it isn't.  The OP used an excerpt from the web to get a discussion going - that's all I'm seeing here. 

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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/19/2010 4:18:08 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		This is what you aren't seeing, I think.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3318610/tm.htm


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RE: How do YOU define the term alpha male? - 7/19/2010 5:06:51 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I did see that thread.  The thing is, DIS has never treated me as a 'pussified man' - quite the opposite, in fact - despite being fully aware that I'm a sub.  On that thread I felt that the OP was groping towards working out something that I couldn't grasp, which was why I didn't post on it. 

Pfft.  I fundamentally don't care.  As previously mentioned, the provenance, the present-day use - everything, in fact, about that categorising of people into 'alphas' and 'betas' - is drivel, as far as I'm concerned.  I don't feel insulted if I'm called a beta, I don't feel complimented if I'm called an alpha.  I don't feel anything at all other than that my time and brain-space is being wasted on pointless concepts. 

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