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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 11:09:27 AM

AquaticSub

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Lady Pact,

That is a good point. By that logic, both Valyraen and I earned our wedding bands since neither of us would have acquired them had we not made the effort or taken the actions to keep the relationship thriving.

Interesting. I don't think "earned" works for me in a relationship context but it's definately something to ponder. Thanks!

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 11:34:48 AM

porcelaine

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Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The problem sometimes with such debates on these boards is that people have become accustomed to the negative use, bastardization, and manipulation of so many terms that people almost expect it. Even something as simple as a person earning a collar gets twisted. It's so easy to fall back on the bad examples.

This.

quote:

People may say that it's a relationship and they didn't have to earn a collar. That's great if that works for you. Anybody being collared to Me does earn it. They earn it through service, loyalty, obedience, submission, and a number of other factors. Yes, this is a process that has a beginning and it does continue through the dynamic. It's not about setting up special hoops to jump through, but it absolutely does hinge on how the dynamic is established and shown to work. If a person wants to be owned by Me, they do have to live up to My expectations or show Me that they have the potential for doing so. It's not an instant thing anymore than I expect them to know from day one that I deserve their faith, trust, or have shown them I have the competency in leading a dynamic with them.

I believe this goes hand in hand with the idea that somehow being in the role means the individual has sealed the deal. I always thought submission and service were active states instead. And as long as I continue to work in tandem with the other party my place is secured. I like the idea of working for things. It shows I'm heavily invested in the relationship through words and deeds.

~porcelaine

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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 12:18:22 PM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

People may say that it's a relationship and they didn't have to earn a collar. That's great if that works for you. Anybody being collared to Me does earn it. They earn it through service, loyalty, obedience, submission, and a number of other factors. Yes, this is a process that has a beginning and it does continue through the dynamic. It's not about setting up special hoops to jump through, but it absolutely does hinge on how the dynamic is established and shown to work. If a person wants to be owned by Me, they do have to live up to My expectations or show Me that they have the potential for doing so. It's not an instant thing anymore than I expect them to know from day one that I deserve their faith, trust, or have shown them I have the competency in leading a dynamic with them.

LadyPact, you know i totally agree with you here about how a slave "earns" his/her collar (bolded part).

The issue i see, especially for so many new submissives, are the Doms that tell her she has to "earn" his collar by jumping through special hoops, generally of the physical sort. They dangle the collar out as a "prize" for performing certain acts for his fun and amusement, and then threaten to take it away even once she has "earned" it, if she doesn't continue to jump through those hoops. And most of them set her up to fail on purpose, because they "want to see how hard she'll try," not realizing (or really not caring) about the emotional damage they're causing in someone who only wants to please him in order to earn that symbol of his approval and acceptance - the collar.

It becomes a game. A sad one. And it is no longer about the two being entertwined in continuing growth, commitment, and trust, it becomes all about desperation, manipulation, and fear.

i have a hard time with this. i don't have a good answer for it - and i know some fully believe in this methodology that i am speaking of here, and i'm contradicting their beliefs by writing this - some might even say i'm not a "true slave," which i'm at peace with, as i'm sure you know.

So when someone asks me about "earning" a collar - in general, i no longer agree that a collar is "earned." Perhaps the word should be retired, i don't know, and traded for something else.

My thoughts aren't very well formed on this, obviously, but it is how i think these days.

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 7/24/2010 12:20:20 PM >

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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 12:34:41 PM

PrincessDonna1

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By the time I offer a collar it is earned by service and me knowing that whomever I choose to collar will serve me to the best of their ability and will honor the relationship as much as I do and wont be afraid to communicate.

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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 1:12:03 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

LadyPact, you know i totally agree with you here about how a slave "earns" his/her collar (bolded part).

The issue i see, especially for so many new submissives, are the Doms that tell her she has to "earn" his collar by jumping through special hoops, generally of the physical sort. They dangle the collar out as a "prize" for performing certain acts for his fun and amusement, and then threaten to take it away even once she has "earned" it, if she doesn't continue to jump through those hoops. And most of them set her up to fail on purpose, because they "want to see how hard she'll try," not realizing (or really not caring) about the emotional damage they're causing in someone who only wants to please him in order to earn that symbol of his approval and acceptance - the collar.

It becomes a game. A sad one. And it is no longer about the two being entertwined in continuing growth, commitment, and trust, it becomes all about desperation, manipulation, and fear.

Most people have had a carrot dangled before them at some point in their lives. It is only appealing if it represents something you want. The value assessment you've made will dictate the depths you're willing to endure to secure it. On the one hand, I believe the mindset of the one chasing the collar is errant. On the other, I don't discount the behaviors mentioned because I know it occurs. Both have compromised their intentions in some manner. For some submissives the collar is the nugget and she doesn't see it as an extension of him, but a badge of pride instead. Unfortunately that mentality can be exploited and usually impresses a negative opinion about the subject on the recipient.

In my opinion it's a game on both ends. To approach it as a status symbol will only invite the one dangling a piece of pyrite in disguise. We caution and suggest that a slower pace is best, but sometimes our advice is ignored when the ego speaks loudest. My remarks reflect a relationship that isn't founded upon the activities stated. In my opinion the most essential thing a submissive can do is invest her energy in choosing a suitable partner. A lot of the what if's and possible dangers fly by the wayside when you've got the right tools in place.

I learn him. And earn him. And consider it a privilege to do so. I'm certain similar sentiments can be echoed on the other end. And no, I don't think this is about the ideas of 'true' slavery, but understanding a good man simply doesn't behave as such and allowing the past to give way to the possibilities the future holds.

~porcelaine

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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 1:16:24 PM

UniqueRaven

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Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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i agree Porcelaine, and it isn't about me - it's about what i see happen to others, or have had other submissive women share their experiences with me of how this happened to them.

It's that part of me that wants to help and protect - which i realize is sometimes a doomed enterprise. But i often entertain the notion that i can make a difference, somehow.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 2:16:58 PM

pogo4pres

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First to laurel3 I'm not a dom, I am sub-male, who in the ensuing 42 years since I turned ten has averaged about three to five new books read a month, and have been reading about the history of BDSM since I was about 19. Next to Willow, and Lady Pact thank you both for enhancing and clarifying what I was trying to say. I know I often can come across as an arrogant prick, but I do not mean to.. I spent too many years of my youth deliberately being obnoxious. I am still trying to out grow it.... ;-) . Perhaps one of these years I'll find the Domme' that can aide me in that endeavor.

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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 2:27:07 PM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

How could I resist such a lovely discussion?

The problem sometimes with such debates on these boards is that people have become accustomed to the negative use, bastardization, and manipulation of so many terms that people almost expect it. Even something as simple as a person earning a collar gets twisted. It's so easy to fall back on the bad examples.

I'm pretty sure that nobody especially needs the definition of a four letter word. I'm going to post it anyway.

earn 1 play_w2("E0005500") (ûrn)tr.v. earned, earn·ing, earns 1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work: earned money by mowing lawns.2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a reputation as a hard worker.3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest on deposited funds.

People may say that it's a relationship and they didn't have to earn a collar. That's great if that works for you. Anybody being collared to Me does earn it. They earn it through service, loyalty, obedience, submission, and a number of other factors. Yes, this is a process that has a beginning and it does continue through the dynamic. It's not about setting up special hoops to jump through, but it absolutely does hinge on how the dynamic is established and shown to work. If a person wants to be owned by Me, they do have to live up to My expectations or show Me that they have the potential for doing so. It's not an instant thing anymore than I expect them to know from day one that I deserve their faith, trust, or have shown them I have the competency in leading a dynamic with them.

What did the person do in your life to earn your trust? What made you fall in love with them? Is it all of the little things that they have done along the way that endeared them to you? They have shown you in one way or another that they are deserving of your affections. You may not have outright asked them to prove they are the person that fits your life, but that doesn't mean they didn't display it to you. Even if you thought that person deserved all of the good emotions that you feel toward them from the instant you met, they earned that they have verified that they really are the type of person who you feel about them that way.

Yes. In My opinion, clip earned the right to wear My collar. Truthfully, he continually earns his right to do so. Just as I, hopefully, earns his wanting to wear it and belonging to Me.

I wanted to snip this down, but your stalker purple color SCARES me now LP! I have bolded the portion I wanted to highlight instead!

The bolded statements would imply this "earning" is a two way street and not at all just the sub "earning" anything. I agree with that sentiment, we all "earn" or more aptly grow together in relationships to the point where symbols become appropriate. The one-sided earning and arrogant declarations that the sub has to be "good enough" are in my opinion, as I stated above, fantasy based fodder.

Pogo your role is immaterial, nor do I care how many books you have read, your repsonse to the post above you was incredibly rude, nonresponsive and ignored the reality of the practice that we currently see and completely out of the ballpark of the other two posters you mentioned.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/24/2010 2:33:00 PM >

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RE: Did you have to "earn" your collar? - 7/24/2010 3:20:42 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

i agree Porcelaine, and it isn't about me - it's about what i see happen to others, or have had other submissive women share their experiences with me of how this happened to them.

It's that part of me that wants to help and protect - which i realize is sometimes a doomed enterprise. But i often entertain the notion that i can make a difference, somehow.

We view slavery as an avocation and that will significantly alter ones approach and desire to make and be a difference. However, I believe it is important to illustrate how misguided thinking creates unhealthy situations. That begins with education and removing the allure of the bells and whistles some have marketed about our path. When it becomes less about 'being a slave' or 'getting collared' and returns to the basic tenets of dominance and submission without the awards -- the internal slowing can occur and the realization of what they're seeking becomes crystal clear.

And in a roundabout way that's protecting them from a much bigger boogeyman and the aftermath his presence can bring. I'm certain you have made a difference and they're grateful for your assistance.

~porcelaine

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