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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

States have benefited, and so have some businesses... but not all. Some have taken hard hits because of the immigration problems. So have individuals through loss of ID when someone "borrows" their SS number. While the economy was good, many states could "look" the other way, and the Fed gladly obliged.

If illegals are deported, yes, the tax base takes a hit. But the welfare side takes a breath. Some companies lose business, other companies gain some relief from bad debts.

This has long been a battle that is just now coming to a head as states scramble to make their budgets.

Do i think this is the way to go about it? No. But, to date, nothing else has worked. At least now this issue is getting the attention.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Thats not a very good argument to use, mike. Suggesting that we, as a nation, continue to allow crimes to be committed because it will hurt our wallet isnt valid. The same argument could have been used for keeping blacks in slavery. This is another form of slavery, for both the illegals whom, many, get paid less than what they deserve simply because of the status, and for us who are held hostage at the cash registers.

Its time to clean up the mess we have made all along and find a solution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

States have benefited, and so have some businesses... but not all. Some have taken hard hits because of the immigration problems. So have individuals through loss of ID when someone "borrows" their SS number. While the economy was good, many states could "look" the other way, and the Fed gladly obliged.

If illegals are deported, yes, the tax base takes a hit. But the welfare side takes a breath. Some companies lose business, other companies gain some relief from bad debts.

This has long been a battle that is just now coming to a head as states scramble to make their budgets.

Do i think this is the way to go about it? No. But, to date, nothing else has worked. At least now this issue is getting the attention.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

There is more to a tax base than just income tax, willbe.

Sales tax, state and local income tax, just to name a couple.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

There is more to a tax base than just income tax, willbe.

Sales tax, state and local income tax, just to name a couple.

And what is by far the largest for most taxpayers?

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont know willbe. Everyone pays sales tax when they purchase products... even utilities have taxes... depending on the state, even clothes and food are taxed. Its difficult to say which has the largest But according to you, i would say its not income.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont know willbe. Everyone pays sales tax when they purchase products... even utilities have taxes... depending on the state, even clothes and food are taxed. Its difficult to say which has the largest But according to you, i would say its not income.

Very easy to deduce. What is the average sales tax rate? Less than 10%. And not all income is spent, and not all that is spent is spent in the US.

What is the average income tax rate? Over 15% of gross income.

Now let me think, which one is larger.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont know willbe. Everyone pays sales tax when they purchase products... even utilities have taxes... depending on the state, even clothes and food are taxed. Its difficult to say which has the largest But according to you, i would say its not income.

Very easy to deduce. What is the average sales tax rate? Less than 10%. And not all income is spent, and not all that is spent is spent in the US.

What is the average income tax rate? Over 15% of gross income.

Now let me think, which one is larger.

Income tax... yes... something they cant file to get back even though their income allows them too. Just another example of the exploitation they go through.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont know about that. even 500 dollars for a year paid in could be 500 returned on taxes.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Those points arent diverging.
As I promised last night.....here are my responses to your points.Notice I termed them response...they are not answers as I really have none.The situation is just too complicated for simple answers.....any one "answer" raises too many issues,both of impracticality and inhumanity.(apologies popeye,but this justisn't as simple as you would have people believe)

We either accept them all as US citizens, giving amnesty, something i am very much against. Or we send them back home.
Amnesty is a non-starter...it tends to encourage further illegal immigration.Sending "them" back home is also troubling...it tends to fracture families.
Perhaps some sort of "path to citizenship" could be worked out...though that would offend those who are opposed to any form of amnesty...and would probably be a non starter to many of the more anti-immigrant segments of our society.
Any other decision is picking and choosing who are the has (those who stay) or the has nots (those who leave).
See above

I dont blame anyone for wanting to make a better life for themselves. But committing a crime isnt the acceptable way to do so.
Would you not "commit a crime" if it was the only way open to you to provide for your children.The other night over coffee with some friends...someone brought up "anchor babies"...complaining about these woman who cross the border to have their babies born on U.S. soil...they were decrying these woman for seeking to secure for their children a better future....is that not the very description of "motherhood" as we know it?Which of us would not move heavan and earth for our children?


Some are here because their visa's ran out. Whats the penalty if they get caught? Is there one? Is it considered a crime, even if that crime is a misdemeanor?
I would think the penalty is deportation...but lets take a look at what that might mean in some cases....have these folks become parents while they were here...would deporting someone be depriving a family of the wage earner.These situations are not always cut and dried...yet beauracracies are very inept at seeing grey in situations....The law,when it is actually applied,is an unforgiving and unfeeling thing.

Some are here because they were enticed. Same set of questions.
Same set of answers...with the addition of prosecuting the enticers(I am assuming we are referring to those who would entice in order to exploit...for these folks the full extent of the law...applied heartlessly would be the best route to go.Certainly I would have no sympathy for this scum).

Some are here because they didnt come through the proper entries. Same set of questions.
Same set of answers....needing opportunity for themselves and their children can entice many law-abiding,honest and hard-working folks to disregard legal niceties and immigration quotas.
Now, how do we determine who is who? Im really open to suggestions. I dont believe many of these illegals are criminals... however they have all committed crimes in merely being here. And this isnt a victimless crime.
Hard to do in an "open" society....I for one would be loath to accept the need for National Identity cards...it smacks of a police state.

Nor do i suggest we hold only the illegals responsible. Businesses, government, even the public themselves who hire them are just as responsible. Its time we closed up the holes, dried up the employment well, and got our nation's house into order.
I agree with this.....with the proviso that one realises the economic cost that would be incurred here(again I'm not advocating the exploitation of immigrants...just drawing your attention to one of the consequences of a proposed path.