RE: Az immigration law case begins

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thompsonx -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 11:38:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Save for the fact that the majority of people we are talking about simply commit the one crime(the illegal entry) so that they can have the opportunity to work and make a better life for their children. Not exactly on the same scale as deciding to make a living as a bank robber because your ass is too lazy to earn an honest buck! Bank robbery is one crime as well, mike. As far as being too lazy to earn an honest buck, we could toss all the illegals in that lot as well.... cant they do the paperwork required to be legal? Here you are being intentionally obtuse. You know perfectly well that it takes in excess of 25 years to do that.

tazzygirl -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 11:39:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Some are here because their visa's ran out. Whats the penalty if they get caught? Is there one? Is it considered a crime, even if that crime is a misdemeanor? You and I discussed this on another thread. There is a penality for being here illegally whether you have overstayed your visa or if you entered the country illegally. You rightly pointed out on that thread that the penality for hiring illegals who have overstayed their visa is significantly lower than if one hires an illegal who has crossed the boarder illegally. Of the "estimated" 12 million illegals in this country about half are here on expired visas. I asked those questions in an attept to get posters to think. But the penalities arent just for employees, as the other thread pointed out. It has to be a three prong approach. Make the borders more secure, find those here illegally, and enforce the laws at the business end. Dry up the ability and they have no choice but to go through the proper channels.

tazzygirl -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 11:41:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Save for the fact that the majority of people we are talking about simply commit the one crime(the illegal entry) so that they can have the opportunity to work and make a better life for their children. Not exactly on the same scale as deciding to make a living as a bank robber because your ass is too lazy to earn an honest buck! Bank robbery is one crime as well, mike. As far as being too lazy to earn an honest buck, we could toss all the illegals in that lot as well.... cant they do the paperwork required to be legal? Here you are being intentionally obtuse. You know perfectly well that it takes in excess of 25 years to do that. So, because someone was born in a disadvantaged country that means we should open our gates? I dont agree. Each country have an immigration policy. Mexico's is much stricter than our own. Dont like the policy, then have that changed. Until then, the law should be enforced. Period.

heartcream -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 11:42:14 AM)
Oh God some of you people are frightening to read. I appreciate some of the posts with hearts and brains in them the rest of you are spooky beyond. Eek.

thompsonx -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 11:43:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: the Iroquois were rocking it Absolutely right, if by "rocking it" you mean losing a fair percentage of your population to starvation mos winters, Your data to support this contention was lacking in your post. But from my memories of history class it was the native americans who kept the colonist from starving in the winter. and dying of old age at 50. Tha average lifespan of the settlers at this time was what? The American Indians that compose no small part of my DNA were stone age savages, modern romantic nonsense notwithstanding. As compared to the iron age savages who invaded their lands Ever had a toothache? Ever wonder what stone age saveges did with a toothache? broken bones? Burns? Infections? Drought? Mostly. we/they died, thats how. There is evidence that these "stone age savages" were doing brain surgery when columbus arrived. They had a calender which is still more acurate than the one we use.

slvemike4u -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 11:46:32 AM)
And we are back to the ends justifying the means for those seeking a better life for themselves and their children.The niceties of our laws and immigration quotas do not deter them....niether will your condemnation.Sorry tazzy....but claiming that they should just respect our laws is more than a little silly it is also unrealistic.

popeye1250 -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 12:48:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u And we are back to the ends justifying the means for those seeking a better life for themselves and their children.The niceties of our laws and immigration quotas do not deter them....niether will your condemnation.Sorry tazzy....but claiming that they should just respect our laws is more than a little silly it is also unrealistic. "Seeking a better life for themselves and their children." Awwww Mike, doesn't that just conjure up some nice, heartwarming sugarplum visions! I can just see that in an advertisement by "La Raza; "Someday maybe little Juan here will be a .....Dentist!" Too bad they couldn't fast forward twenty years eh? Why is the U.S. the only country that still "needs" immigration in the year 2010? We don't see any other country that "needs" immigration with the possable exception of Russia who's population is declining. But, if you go to Russia you don't get any,.....benefits! The U.S. is a mature country now just like the European countries, we don't "need" anymore immigration with the possable exception of very highly skilled jobs but that's due to the needs of "big business.". In my area the unemployment rate is somewhere between 14 and 17 %!!! And I can assure you with a good deal of confidence that we have no shortage of high school dropouts or people with "degrees" to pick local produce, clean hotel rooms, work at fast food places, carwashes, be lawn jockeys or to do any other type of unskilled labor yet they still have kids from all over Eastern Europe and Russia here during the summer to work at the beach resorts for less than the locals. And this area isn't even close to being one of the worst areas in the country for unemployment! Look at Michigan and parts of Calif, Ohio and many other states. I think some areas of Michigan have a 40% unemployment rate! And unless we get out of those "free trade" deals that are just"outsourcing deals," we'll never have a "shortage" of unskilled labor! And some in the Press and Washington are calling this situation; "The new normal!" When Ross Perot said that getting involved in "NAFTA" would be, "a race to the bottom" I don't think he truly understood how absolutely right he was! Your "concern" for people in foreign countries I think is misplaced. In the next few years things are going to get awful tough in the U.S. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/useconomyfinancegeithner Anyone believe "Tiny Tim" Geithner? Notice the use of the word "gradually", boy, that sure covers a LOT of area doesn't it? His view seems to be in direct contrast with Ben Bernanke. "The economy will *gradually* get better." "You mean in like,... five years?" "No, I mean *gradually*."

thompsonx -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 1:02:34 PM)
quote: Here you are being intentionally obtuse. You know perfectly well that it takes in excess of 25 years to do that. So, because someone was born in a disadvantaged country that means we should open our gates? I dont agree. Each country have an immigration policy. Mexico's is much stricter than our own. Dont like the policy, then have that changed. Until then, the law should be enforced. Period. You are still being intentionally obtuse. You hide behind the facade of the law while you know full well the law is exclusionary. That is both disingenuous and bigoted. We both recognize that the simple way to end the illegal alien problem is to arrest,fine and incarcerate those who hire them.

popeye1250 -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 1:08:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Here you are being intentionally obtuse. You know perfectly well that it takes in excess of 25 years to do that. So, because someone was born in a disadvantaged country that means we should open our gates? I dont agree. Each country have an immigration policy. Mexico's is much stricter than our own. Dont like the policy, then have that changed. Until then, the law should be enforced. Period. You are still being intentionally obtuse. You hide behind the facade of the law while you know full well the law is exclusionary. That is both disingenuous and bigoted. We both recognize that the simple way to end the illegal alien problem is to arrest,fine and incarcerate those who hire them. Thompson, isn't the law supposed to be "exclusionary?" lol Immigration to any country is not a "right."

truckinslave -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 4:05:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream Oh God some of you people are frightening to read. I appreciate some of the posts with hearts and brains in them the rest of you are spooky beyond. Eek. If you're that easily scared you should get help.

truckinslave -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 4:09:18 PM)
quote: Thompson, isn't the law supposed to be "exclusionary?" No shit? Well, that's just unfair, racist, mean, un-American, hateful, and contributes to global warming. So there! Edited to add: homophobic

thompsonx -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 4:21:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Here you are being intentionally obtuse. You know perfectly well that it takes in excess of 25 years to do that. So, because someone was born in a disadvantaged country that means we should open our gates? I dont agree. Each country have an immigration policy. Mexico's is much stricter than our own. Dont like the policy, then have that changed. Until then, the law should be enforced. Period. You are still being intentionally obtuse. You hide behind the facade of the law while you know full well the law is exclusionary. That is both disingenuous and bigoted. We both recognize that the simple way to end the illegal alien problem is to arrest,fine and incarcerate those who hire them. Thompson, isn't the law supposed to be "exclusionary?" lol Immigration to any country is not a "right." Perhaps you need to actually understand what "exclusionary" means. All countries have a right to say who is and is not allowed into their coutry. When one says that you need to follow our laws...that implies that all are welcome if they follow this set of ruels. When we read the law it says "none of you fuckers are allowed in". If you are going to be a bigot then why sugar coat it... let your bigotry be seen for what it is.

truckinslave -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 4:31:04 PM)
quote: When one says that you need to follow our laws...that implies that all are welcome if they follow this set of ruels. No no no no no. You- and you alone- inferred that. There is no implication implicit in the statement: "They need to follow our laws". There is an underlying understanding that the first of those laws is: Don't come here illegally or stay here illegally You need to understand what the verb: "to imply" means; glad I could help.

thompsonx -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 4:44:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: When one says that you need to follow our laws...that implies that all are welcome if they follow this set of ruels. No no no no no. You- and you alone- inferred that. There is no implication implicit in the statement: "They need to follow our laws". There is an underlying understanding that the first of those laws is: Don't come here illegally or stay here illegally You need to understand what the verb: "to imply" means; glad I could help. Most people with a three digit i.q would feel that a 25 year wait for one of 5000 openings means don't come here.

truckinslave -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 4:48:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: When one says that you need to follow our laws...that implies that all are welcome if they follow this set of ruels. No no no no no. You- and you alone- inferred that. There is no implication implicit in the statement: "They need to follow our laws". There is an underlying understanding that the first of those laws is: Don't come here illegally or stay here illegally You need to understand what the verb: "to imply" means; glad I could help. Most people with a three digit i.q would feel that a 25 year wait for one of 5000 openings means don't come here. Well, if that's the actual situation, then yeah, that's exactly wtf it means. I'm good with that. I'm for a shrinking population- here, elsewhere, globally.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 4:50:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: When one says that you need to follow our laws...that implies that all are welcome if they follow this set of ruels. No no no no no. You- and you alone- inferred that. There is no implication implicit in the statement: "They need to follow our laws". There is an underlying understanding that the first of those laws is: Don't come here illegally or stay here illegally You need to understand what the verb: "to imply" means; glad I could help. Most people with a three digit i.q would feel that a 25 year wait for one of 5000 openings means don't come here. Well, if that's the actual situation, then yeah, that's exactly wtf it means. I'm good with that. I'm for a shrinking population- here, elsewhere, globally. You mean most people would infer that a 25 year wait....., right? ;)

truckinslave -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 5:01:39 PM)
quote: You mean most people would infer that a 25 year wait....., right? ;) [sm=axe.gif] Dammit! I coulda had a V8!!

cadenas -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 5:08:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl States have benefited, and so have some businesses... but not all. Some have taken hard hits because of the immigration problems. So have individuals through loss of ID when someone "borrows" their SS number. While the economy was good, many states could "look" the other way, and the Fed gladly obliged. If illegals are deported, yes, the tax base takes a hit. But the welfare side takes a breath. Some companies lose business, other companies gain some relief from bad debts. This has long been a battle that is just now coming to a head as states scramble to make their budgets. Do i think this is the way to go about it? No. But, to date, nothing else has worked. At least now this issue is getting the attention. The tax base "hit" is miniscule compared to the services illegals use. Even if all of their hours are reported and they are making $8/hr, all it takes is claiming 3 deductions to have no withholding, and they have no tax liability. $10/hr? a whopping $8 a week....2%. You are overlooking FICA taxes. At $8/hour, that's another $2272 per year. By the way, US citizens in that income bracket pay the same.

truckinslave -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 5:15:16 PM)
quote: You are overlooking FICA taxes. At $8/hour, that's another $2272 per year. In other words, approximately 37.6 seconds in the ER.

slvemike4u -> RE: Az immigration law case begins (7/24/2010 5:20:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: When one says that you need to follow our laws...that implies that all are welcome if they follow this set of ruels. No no no no no. You- and you alone- inferred that. There is no implication implicit in the statement: "They need to follow our laws". There is an underlying understanding that the first of those laws is: Don't come here illegally or stay here illegally You need to understand what the verb: "to imply" means; glad I could help. Most people with a three digit i.q would feel that a 25 year wait for one of 5000 openings means don't come here. Well, if that's the actual situation, then yeah, that's exactly wtf it means. I'm good with that. I'm for a shrinking population- here, elsewhere, globally. Why don't you lead by example...even an idiot such as yourself should be able to figure out a method of shrinking the population by one. Yep,you go first and the rest of us just might be inspired by your example.

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