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RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 5:16:48 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, now I'm even sadder.....I looked up the book...HERE are "the rules"

01: Be a “Creature” Unlike Any Other
02: Don't Talk to a Man First (and Don't Ask Him to Dance)
03: Don't Stare at Men or Talk Too Much
04: Don't Meet Him Halfway or Go Dutch on a Date
05: Don't Call Him & Rarely Return His Calls
06: Always End Phone Calls and dates First
07: Don't Accept a Saturday Night Date after Wednesday
08: Fill Up Your Time before the Date
09: How to Act on Dates 1,2, & 3 End the date first especially if you like him.
10: How to Act on Dates 4 through Commitment Time
11: Always end the date first
12: Stop Dating Him if He Doesn't Buy You a Romantic Gift for Your Birthday or Valentine's Day
13: Don’t See Him More than Once or Twice a Week
14: No More than Casual Kissing on the First Date
15: Don't Rush into Sex & Other Rules for Intimacy
16: Don't Tell Him What to Do
17: Let Him Take the Lead
18: Don't Expect a Man to Change or Try to Change Him
19: Don’t Open Up Too Fast
20: Be Honest but Mysterious
21: Accentuate the Positive & Other Rules for Personal Ads
22: Don’t Live with a Man (or Leave Your Things in His Apartment)
23: Don't Date a Married Man
24: Slowly Involve Him in Your Family & Other Rules for Women with Children
25: Practice, Practice, Practice! (or, Getting Good at The Rules)
26: Even if You're Engaged or Married, You Still Need The Rules
27: Do The Rules, Even when Your Friends & Parents Think It's Nuts
28: Be Smart and Other Rules for Dating in High School
29: Take Care of Yourself and Other Rules for Dating in College
30: NEXT! & Other Rules for Dealing with Rejection
31: Don't Discuss The Rules with Your Therapist.
32: Don't Break The Rules!
33: Do The Rules and You’ll Live Happily Ever After!
34: Love Only Those Who Love You
35: Be Easy to Live With

cited from wikipedia: from :

The Rules: Time-Tested Secrets for Capturing the Heart of Mr. Right is a controversial self-help book by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider, originally published in 1995.[1]


Seriously, you ladies are smarter than this. So many of these are just completely immature manipulative techniques in my opinion.

Really?

04: Don't Meet Him Halfway or Go Dutch on a Date
05: Don't Call Him & Rarely Return His Calls
06: Always End Phone Calls and dates First
07: Don't Accept a Saturday Night Date after Wednesday

31: Don't Discuss The Rules with Your Therapist.............SERIOUSLY?????????????????

Sigh...........honestly....you're looking for a guy that you're going to trust to tie you up and you're starting with THAT as the foundation?

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/24/2010 5:18:08 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 5:20:54 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I don't follow the rules

I do know that one shouldn't emotionally invest in people that aren't invested in me. If you boil all of those rules down, it really is all about that

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 5:21:48 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I don't follow the rules

I do know that one shouldn't emotionally invest in people that aren't invested in me. If you boil all of those rules down, it really is all about that



Yeah well that begs the question of how you know that...do you know it by playing games? or by being honest?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 5:30:54 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I don't follow the rules

I do know that one shouldn't emotionally invest in people that aren't invested in me. If you boil all of those rules down, it really is all about that



Yeah well that begs the question of how you know that...do you know it by playing games? or by being honest?


DarlingSavage has several times mentioned that she has troubles with slowing down, how to set boundaries with men she is really attracted to, etc. She has mentioned several times that this seems to bite her in the ass. She was not taught that we teach people how to treat us. Basically, I would rather someone pick up a few of the above "rules" as a way to reign themselves in before investing themselves too heavily then to continue to have what they desire escape them.

Me, I have had sex on the first date if I feel like it. I return calls when I have the time. But I don't accept last minutes dates AT FIRST. I continue to lead my life and fill my life ALWAYS. I think that if you read the book, you would see that in the end they are really telling women to do just that. I thought some of their "rules" were stupid, but the ones for women with children were especially valuable TO ME. I don't think women should invite men in right away if they have kids. I think that is a privilege

Now, you may not think these rules apply to smart women, but I have seen smart women do some pretty stupid things, like not have good boundaries, etc.... if this book helps them draw those boundaries, good for them!

Me, I am pretty straight forward and I don't play games. I always say, don't play hard to get, be hard to get... that is just me, etc

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 5:42:55 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		The Rules authors should be sent to a scat & bukkake festival.

I remember seeing them on tv years ago, and they're idiots.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 5:44:48 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

The Rules authors should be sent to a scat & bukkake festival.

I remember seeing them on tv years ago, and they're idiots.


And yet men chase women who act like them.... I wonder who the bigger idiots are

I hate that it is true, but it is, most men go crazy over chasing women like that.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 5:50:40 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Hey julia.... yeah, people do crazy things, things that make my head hurt lol. I'd slam the door on them, but then again, I never claimed to be normal.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 5:56:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Hey julia.... yeah, people do crazy things, things that make my head hurt lol. I'd slam the door on them, but then again, I never claimed to be normal.


In my very limited experience the rules if they were followed to a tee would tend to bore dominant men...

The question becomes, how do smart women learn healthy boundaries?



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 6:19:12 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Boundaries differ from person to person, a smart woman communicates to ascertain what they are instead of assuming some sophomoric "rules" apply. Neither gender really are stereotypes.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 6:34:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Boundaries differ from person to person, a smart woman communicates to ascertain what they are instead of assuming some sophomoric "rules" apply. Neither gender really are stereotypes.


If I were going to write the rules it would be pretty simple

1. respect yourself
2.have a life
3. only do what you feel like


Subtext to that.... I like men to pursue me, and that isn't a game, it is a preference.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 6:42:17 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, well I'm not insulting you....I do see your point for YOU, I am making a general point.

Let's take for example the phone call "rule".

If I had interest in someone and they only returned every third call, I would no longer have interest. That having been said, I have certainly been in relationships where I felt they contacted me too often and told them so tactfully. Not because of any "rule", but because it's how I felt about that paticular relationship and even THAT varies with me between relationships.

So my point is, I think openly finding out where people (regardless of gender) lie on these issues with communication instead of assuming anything based on gender stereotypes is the better approach. Is there an appropriate time to do that? Sure, I wouldn't suggest striking up that conversation with someone you just met of course.

I do agree with your rules 1&2 though and hell whatever works for you works, do it. It sounds like you're happy and having fun, so where's the rub?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 6:48:58 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

It sounds like you're happy and having fun, so where's the rub?


I brought up the thread because I am curious how people show they are investing in someone...

Some of the responses, such as from darlingsavage, reminded me of the rules because of her posts...

There is no problem. I thought it would be an interesting topic.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 6:55:57 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Yeah well that begs the question of how you know that...do you know it by playing games? or by being honest?


I make an assessment to determine if he has the qualities I find appealing in a prospective partner. If so, we continue and enter a getting to know you period. There is no emotional attachment on my end or promises made. We're simply getting acquainted. At some point we'll determine if it is feasible to explore things further or go our separate ways.

As for how this plays out...

I don't beat around the bush. I don't dance and the only time we're doing that is when we got out. You will not chase me because that assumes I want you to catch me. I have no reason to run from a man I'm going to decline. And I don't play the friendship game. He won't become my pal and suggestively hint at how compatible we are. Or ask me a billion questions under that guise as he seeks to unwrap me.

I don't have time for the nonsense and I won't entertain men that can't open up their mouths and say what they want without doing a silly two-step. I won't be wooed or convinced that you're the world's best dominant. I'll select you because you complement the woman I am and that's based on who you are not your projection of your superiority or other ego inspired diatribes. Readiness coupled with stability is a must. I won't take on a chaotic project.

There are no checklists. I'm not easily impressed. Don't ever call me girl. Be yourself and let's see if we mesh. If that is not the case don't take it personal. It wasn't meant to be.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 6:59:16 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		To me, smart women will not have a lot of trouble developing healthy boundaries, honestly, I think much of it falls in with having good common sense. You mention respect, and that is a key component, for one's self, and others. And, the "treat others as you want to be treated" thing, that too.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 7:04:44 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I like Level's rules better! Level you should write a book! (when you get out of the bathroom that is)

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/24/2010 7:05:20 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 7:11:10 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		laurell, I'm a man on a mission!

I don't know, I think we make life too hard for ourselves, sometimes. But I see women like you, and julia, and I see strong, intelligent, capable people, and I think that y'all would not have too much difficulty in holding up your end of a relationship. On the flip side, some people will NEVER "get it".

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 7:17:31 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Oh I don't know...I have my neurotic moments like anyone else Level. They tend to be brief though. Thanks for the compliment and I agree julia is one smart cookie!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 7:19:12 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hey there Laurell,
I've read the book The Rules.  I found it rather good actually. 

In general the kind "manipulative" sort of rules can be summed up something like this:

Have a full life.  Live with passion.  Don't jump in too fast.  Be a good friend to yourself. 

For example, number 7.  It's not that you have to follow this before Wednesday thing.  It's more like.  Have fun, don't sit around waiting for someone to call you!  Do the things you enjoy.  I remember going to a Friday night dance class pretty regularly but always wondering if I was stopping myself from being available for a date.  Anyway, if a man could only see me on Friday and was asking me on Thursday (because no one better had come along), I was able to say that I was busy.  "You'd rather go to a dance class than out with me?"  (Like what I wanted / enjoyed was not important).  I was busy because the Rules told me to be busy.  I trusted that.  It gave me permission to do the things I enjoyed, and at that point in my life, I needed that.  Eventually, I realized that I was going to Friday night dance class because it made me happy, not because the rules said "not after Wednesday".  Somehow by following the rules, my life and my passion had become important.  When I did meet The Man, he totally respected my need for Friday night dance class - he liked how much I loved it, liked the exercise - emotional and physical components -  and it became his night to go out with his buddies.  On occasion, there was something that was happening on Friday, and I skipped dance class and he skipped his night with the buddies... because we knew what was important.

Having been raised with absolutely dreadful boundaries, I found The Rules to be a good outside structure for a time.  Kind of like 12 step programs.  Here are the rules.  Follow them.  As I got a handle on my own life, I was able to let go of the "rules" and to create my own guidelines.  Some people need the outside structure, if only for a short time.  The rules taught me that I was not in fact worthless as I'd been taught.  I had faith in them, I followed them, and by doing so, I found a man who respected me.  I'm grateful for them.  I'm also grateful to have grown past them.

As an aside, each time I've allowed myself to forget my *own* rules, I have been deeply hurt by people who don't respect me.  At those times, I go back to my 12 step lessons and yes, the lessons of The Rules.

YMMV,
best,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 7:21:30 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks sunshine, I definitely haven't read the book, in the list I quoted though a few of them sure seem really suspect and gamey.

If it works for you it does!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Investment in Relationships - 7/24/2010 7:25:55 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I like Level's rules better! Level you should write a book! (when you get out of the bathroom that is)


He can write it in the bathroom.... we need him to do his duty in there

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 120
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