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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 2:18:06 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: realwhiteknight

quote:

lol, another poster I love to read!
There are so many people posting these days that can debate and chat, without the 4th grade name calling and acting ugly.

I am moved to tears.

I am a sensitive soul, and mean people scare me.

The Chinese will certainly own us all soon, lock, stock and barrel.
Let's see how we fare under having to dance to their music.


Wait. The first post I read I thought you were being serious, then I thought you were being sarcastic, and your second post (this) was sarcastic, but then I realized it was serious? Seems like I have a lot of ground to cover before I can keep up with this conversation. Oh well, at least it's not 2000 miles long, devoid of food and water and covered by landmines or pissy border patrol officers...



I read your first post before you deleted it.
I am actually half serious and half sarcastic here.
In the area that I currently live in, I realized years ago that I needed to learn
Spanish to increase my opportunities across the board and I have no problem with it.
I currently live in an area that has a large hispanic population, and the majority of them
prefer to speak Spanish, "out and about and around the community", even though I know for a fact most of them can speak English, but prefer not to.

I actually do think Spanish might as well become the second language of the United States.
Actually, learning Spanish will increase my opportunities professionally and even personally.

So when are we meeting up to go salsa dancing?

I do tend to combine being serious with being sarcastic a lot, but then that's what keeps it light hearted?
No?

As far as Red China owning the USA? We gladly have allowed and continue to allow that to happen, and you really don't want me to get started on how we have managed to ruin a fairly good country.
We have sat back and allowed policies like unbridled outsourcing, and corporate greed, along with stupid government policies to put us in our current economic situation, and we are slowly but surely on our way to one day in the not so distant future, being in the 21st century version of the great depression.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/27/2010 2:35:53 PM >

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NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 2:18:12 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Sorry. You are a bit confused. I did not ask you any question. You replied to my post.



Maybe this will help.



quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

As Domiguy pointed out, all the anger is focused on the southern border, not the Canadian line. Why? Because the Latinos "are not like us."


Well that could be because the living condition in Canada are not so terrible that people would be willing to do anything to get out of there. But don't let common sense get in the way of a good rant.

Speaking of xenophobia, has anyone seen kittin lately?



So, how exactly do Canadian living conditions address the commonly expressed concerns about drugs and terrorism?



See that quote box up there. That is the post I am responding to. Now if I put a question down here, it is assumed that I am asking you the question. When you put the question under the quote box containing my post, it was assumed you were asking me the question. If you have no clue how this works, maybe you should ask for help.


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Profile   Post #: 182
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 2:19:28 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Then why did you ask me the question?


Sorry. You are a bit confused. I did not ask you any question. You replied to my post.

quote:

Well the subject has been illegals moving over and getting jobs, so no I don't think the big stink right now is about drugs. Not sure about the terrorism part, I didn't even realize Mexico was know for its terrorists. Maybe you don't understand the differences between races and think everyone with dark skin is the same. It would explain why you keep referring to yourself as xenophobic..


Not that Mexico is known for its terrorists but the fear of Islamic terrorists coming across the border with Mexicans has been a constant theme by the fence-builders since 9/11. And recently there has been a bit of a drug war between Mexican gangs going on along the border. That has become a cause for the fence-builders as well. It has been reported in the papers and on TV.

quote:

No because you said "As Domiguy pointed out, all the anger is focused on the southern border, not the Canadian line. Why? Because the Latinos "are not like us." I was merely pointing out a logical reason for this.


Let me get this straight. You are saying we are angry at the Mexicans and not the Canadians because the Mexicans are poor and the Canadians are not. Really?



Vincent, be carefull or you'll make slavemike cry!
"Those poor Mexicans are so,.....POOR,... Boooo hooo hooo hooo!" "BOOOOO Hoooo, hoooo, hoooo!"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/27/2010 2:22:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 2:21:03 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Not that Mexico is known for its terrorists but the fear of Islamic terrorists coming across the border with Mexicans has been a constant theme by the fence-builders since 9/11. And recently there has been a bit of a drug war between Mexican gangs going on along the border. That has become a cause for the fence-builders as well. It has been reported in the papers and on TV.


Well if you are interested in it, by all means, start a new thread.


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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 2:22:34 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

No because you said "As Domiguy pointed out, all the anger is focused on the southern border, not the Canadian line. Why? Because the Latinos "are not like us." I was merely pointing out a logical reason for this.


Let me get this straight. You are saying we are angry at the Mexicans and not the Canadians because the Mexicans are poor and the Canadians are not. Really?


Is that what you were trying to imply? I wondered when I read that in YOUR post.


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 185
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 2:28:11 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		No worries Popeye...as I have actually taken the trouble to try to understand what is a complex and perplexing situation.....I have shed myself of the irrational fear that seems to hold your old carcass in it's icy grip.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 2:31:33 PM   
realwhiteknight


Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:




I read your first post before you deleted it.
I am actually half serious and half sarcastic here.
In the area that I currently live in, I realized years ago that I needed to learn
Spanish to increase my opportunities across the board and I have no problem with it.
I currently live in an area that has a large hispanic population, and the majority of them
prefer to speak Spanish, "out and about and around the community", even though I know for a fact most of them can speak English, but prefer not to.

I actually do think Spanish might as well become the second language of the United States.
Actually, learning Spanish will increase my opportunities professionally and even personally.

So when are we meeting up to go salsa dancing?

I do tend to combine being serious with being sarcastic a lot, but then that's what keeps it light hearted?
No?

As far as Red China owning the USA? We gladly have allowed and continue to allow that to happen, and you really don't want me to get started on how we have ruined this country and outsourced ourselves into the toilet.
lol


I totally agree with everything you said and I *totally* know where you're coming from.

< Message edited by realwhiteknight -- 7/27/2010 2:40:25 PM >

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Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 2:51:38 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		It still seems that a few are all for militarizing the southern border. Well and good, but considering the manpower required, we would have to increase the size of the army to do it. I have pointed out that we are talking about putting about a quarter of our entire US Army on the southern border.

So, are we talking infantry, Mechanized troops complete with IFV's and tanks, or a mix of the two?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 3:11:02 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Ja, like we got enough cannon fodder to feed our current wars.  Why the fuck we wanna throw down on everybody pisses us off?  Where the fuck is that comin from?  We ain't particularly good at it once we are done with the high tech lead throwing incursions waste it end of the shit. 

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 3:27:28 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Has everybody spent all day repeating stuff I said on the first page?

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 3:34:24 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It still seems that a few are all for militarizing the southern border. Well and good, but considering the manpower required, we would have to increase the size of the army to do it. I have pointed out that we are talking about putting about a quarter of our entire US Army on the southern border.

So, are we talking infantry, Mechanized troops complete with IFV's and tanks, or a mix of the two?

Actually, you wouldn't necessarily have to increase the size of the military itself.  It probably would be the more cost effective of the two, considering that members of the military wouldn't be getting the guaranteed eight hour (maximum) shift that has been mentioned in prior posts.  Those folks don't get time and a half over eight like civilians do.  What could happen is a potential extension of the National Guard.

Another possibility would be contracting the positions out.  Very much like many bases now have for gate control.  There has been 100% ID check to get on to any military base since 9/11.  Not all gates are manned by MPs.  These are the folks that are basically watching little screens to ensure the perimeter isn't breached. 

In My opinion, skip the tank theory all together.  You're talking about catching people on foot.  Not especially something that needs to withstand heavy artillery.  I think you'd be looking more along the lines of ATV or humvee for those areas that would need constant movement.  I agree with you that any wall built will not be able to cover the entire length of the boarder.  Areas such as the river, of course, would need to have heavier manning than areas that would work with a wall.  At the same time, I think you're skipping how effective electronic surveillance could potentially be. 


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Profile   Post #: 191
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 3:49:55 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Personally I find it distressing that folks ,who up till this point I held in some regard,actually believe militirizing our border is a viable and workable solution.The funny thing is none who advocate this have even contemplated that this is not the sort of mission our military trains for.Soldiers are not law enforcement personel....but as long as we go with servants shoot first,screw the questions idea that should be an issue.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 3:53:42 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Personally I find it distressing that folks ,who up till this point I held in some regard,actually believe militirizing our border is a viable and workable solution.The funny thing is none who advocate this have even contemplated that this is not the sort of mission our military trains for.Soldiers are not law enforcement personel....but as long as we go with servants shoot first,screw the questions idea that should be an issue.



Mike, the primary mission of our military is to protect the states and stem invaisions. (Article 4 ?)

P.S. "distressed" eh? You gonna have trouble sleeping tonight big guy?

"FEElINGS, whoa whoa whoa FEELINGS....."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/27/2010 3:57:36 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 3:55:44 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


Actually, you wouldn't necessarily have to increase the size of the military itself.  It probably would be the more cost effective of the two, considering that members of the military wouldn't be getting the guaranteed eight hour (maximum) shift that has been mentioned in prior posts.  Those folks don't get time and a half over eight like civilians do.  What could happen is a potential extension of the National Guard.

Another possibility would be contracting the positions out.  Very much like many bases now have for gate control.  There has been 100% ID check to get on to any military base since 9/11.  Not all gates are manned by MPs.  These are the folks that are basically watching little screens to ensure the perimeter isn't breached. 

In My opinion, skip the tank theory all together.  You're talking about catching people on foot.  Not especially something that needs to withstand heavy artillery.  I think you'd be looking more along the lines of ATV or humvee for those areas that would need constant movement.  I agree with you that any wall built will not be able to cover the entire length of the boarder.  Areas such as the river, of course, would need to have heavier manning than areas that would work with a wall.  At the same time, I think you're skipping how effective electronic surveillance could potentially be. 




Actually for sensors to be effective, you have to be able to respond to the sensor activated alarm in minutes.

The primary reason behind putting the military on the border is that it would be a national security operation.

But then there is the simple question of what orders do we give them?

Detain illegal immigrants to be sure, but what of ARMED drug traffickers? Should that be a shot on sight order, or do we treat them as we would terrorists. They are after all making armed incursions across the border.

With border violence increasing, these troops would have to be armed and highly trained. I am not talking MPs, but fully armed and combat ready troops. I seriously doubt that drug traffickers are going to dump a shipment of drugs and scurry across the border, the odds are, considering they commonly have shoot outs with Mexican police and military, that they will try and put up a fight.

And I doubt if you are going to find private firms willing to do the job for less than $100 a man hour.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 7/27/2010 3:56:50 PM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 4:01:31 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		JLF, now you're comming up with all kinds of fantastic figures and reasons why we "can't" enforce that border and laws, how about some ways that we can do it?
And what's going to happen if we "don't" secure that border in two, five, ten years?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 4:02:50 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Personally I find it distressing that folks ,who up till this point I held in some regard,actually believe militirizing our border is a viable and workable solution.The funny thing is none who advocate this have even contemplated that this is not the sort of mission our military trains for.Soldiers are not law enforcement personel....but as long as we go with servants shoot first,screw the questions idea that should be an issue.



Mike, the primary mission of our military is to protect the states and stem invaisions. (Article 4 ?)

P.S. "distressed" eh? You gonna have trouble sleeping tonight big guy?

"FEElINGS, whoa whoa whoa FEELINGS....."
Yep Popeye....and even you with your irrational fear can not lay claim to an actual armed invasion.Has Mexico declared war?How many divisions are streaming cross the border?
Finally let me ask you what could possibly keep me up at night.....the irrational pronouncements of some whack (re:you)jobs on a message board?As far as I know there are no imminent plans to enact any of the hairbrained schemes I have seen proposed over these pages.....but yoy be sure to let me know when this shit comes to pass.....and I'll be sure to toss and turn

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 4:10:19 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Personally I find it distressing that folks ,who up till this point I held in some regard,actually believe militirizing our border is a viable and workable solution.The funny thing is none who advocate this have even contemplated that this is not the sort of mission our military trains for.Soldiers are not law enforcement personel....but as long as we go with servants shoot first,screw the questions idea that should be an issue.



Wall building is supposedly done to strike a sort of "peace", but it is a "negative peace", and unsustainable because sooner or later walls come down. But until the wall does, and while in place, it creates even more distance, making a positive peace even harder to attain when it does...

Think of all the walls that have been built throughout history... how effective have they been? And why is a wall necessary between Mexico and the US but not Canada and the US, and why aren't we worried about Canadians taking our jobs, lord knows they are more competitive than Mexicans are for the good ones

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/27/2010 4:11:15 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 4:11:53 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Personally I find it distressing that folks ,who up till this point I held in some regard,actually believe militirizing our border is a viable and workable solution.The funny thing is none who advocate this have even contemplated that this is not the sort of mission our military trains for.Soldiers are not law enforcement personel....but as long as we go with servants shoot first,screw the questions idea that should be an issue.



Mike, the primary mission of our military is to protect the states and stem invaisions. (Article 4 ?)

P.S. "distressed" eh? You gonna have trouble sleeping tonight big guy?

"FEElINGS, whoa whoa whoa FEELINGS....."
Yep Popeye....and even you with your irrational fear can not lay claim to an actual armed invasion.Has Mexico declared war?How many divisions are streaming cross the border?
Finally let me ask you what could possibly keep me up at night.....the irrational pronouncements of some whack (re:you)jobs on a message board?As far as I know there are no imminent plans to enact any of the hairbrained schemes I have seen proposed over these pages.....but yoy be sure to let me know when this shit comes to pass.....and I'll be sure to toss and turn



"People,.......people who need people....."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 4:14:17 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Assholes...every one has one.....some like to show theirs more often than they should !!!!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/27/2010 4:15:25 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Personally I find it distressing that folks ,who up till this point I held in some regard,actually believe militirizing our border is a viable and workable solution.The funny thing is none who advocate this have even contemplated that this is not the sort of mission our military trains for.Soldiers are not law enforcement personel....but as long as we go with servants shoot first,screw the questions idea that should be an issue.



Wall building is supposedly done to strike a sort of "peace", but it is a "negative peace", and unsustainable because sooner or later walls come down. But until the wall does, and while in place, it creates even more distance, making a positive peace even harder to attain when it does...

Think of all the walls that have been built throughout history... how effective have they been? And why is a wall necessary between Mexico and the US but not Canada and the US, and why aren't we worried about Canadians taking our jobs, lord knows they are more competitive than Mexicans are for the good ones
No need to convince me Julia....I'm singing in the choir already

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 200
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