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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

That is an impossible goal jlff....at least while maintaining the illusion of an open society .I for one would lament my country taking on the appearence of an East German state....or approximating the look of a demilitirized zone ala N. and S. Korea.
Certainly I would reject those steps were they to be taken at the alter of thinly disguised racism...Vincent,and others have hit the nail on the head here....it is xenophobia,it is fear of losing the battle of thhe bedrooms....and finally and probably most important it is fear of the changing demographics in the voter rolls of the future.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oddly enough, CNN did a report on the number of illegals that are of irish decent just today.

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ORIGINAL: Marini

dovie!
I disagree with it taking 100 years to have a Hispanic President!
I give it about 10 anos, at the latest
Great post, I am going to work even harder to master Spanish!
Muchas gracias Senorita!

We are taking over White man!
Give us back our land!
Viva la liberte!

<---is going to go along with the program!
Senorita Marini

quote:


My post was in response to E3's assertion that the main reason for closing the border was drugs. We have had an open border north and south for 230 years. The current hysteria over drugs and terrorists is a bogus attempt to hide our xenophobia. We are selectively obsessed with the southern border. Drugs and terrorists can presumably cross just as easily from the North. It is a much longer border. There is no demand for a fence there, however. My conclusion is that drugs and terrorism are bogus issues. post.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn

OK, I'm going to step in and say this:

As long as our border with Mexico looks like this, we will never be able to control illegal immigration. And before y'all jump down my throat, I am only addressing one issue purposely. The only thing I am trying to do is to demonstrate how ineffective our border currently is.

These photos were taken by me on the US/Mexico Border near Palominas, Arizona. Yes, that cut barbed wire fence is our border, and in the second picture, the road in the left is in the US, and the one on the right is in Mexico.

It's not terrain that is any better or worse than the vehicles that we are using now in Iraq and Afghanistan.  It also isn't something that can't be flown over by helicopter. 

A permanent wall is still the more optimal idea.  However, that does take time to build.  In the meantime, there is nothing that says we can not patrol our boarders to protect them.  How this ever became about improving the quality of life for those born in Mexico as compared to protecting our own interests is beyond Me. 

Everybody is so quick to say who will build or who will patrol?  I'll bet there are unemployed people in at least four states who are not only in need of a job, but also believe in securing our boarders.  You also have the resource of the National Guard in all four of those states that could be doing this job right now.

The work and materials involved in actually building a wall would be one of the best things we could do for our economy.  It's not Mexico we're supposed to be looking out for here.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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As Domiguy pointed out, all the anger is focused on the southern border, not the Canadian line. Why? Because the Latinos "are not like us."

Well that could be because the living condition in Canada are not so terrible that people would be willing to do anything to get out of there. But don't let common sense get in the way of a good rant.

Speaking of xenophobia, has anyone seen kittin lately?

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They came the same way as any other group... work visas that expired and they never went home. Makes me think the work visa program needs to be redesigned.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They came the same way as any other group... work visas that expired and they never went home. Makes me think the work visa program needs to be redesigned.

Tazzy, the unemployment rate in my area here they said on the news is between 14 and 17%!
The only people we "need" comming to this country are highly skilled people like Dr's, Nurses, Engineers etc.
Those "work visa" programs are like any other govt. program, eventually they get out of control! The "agency" gets bigger and bigger and has to justify it's existance. And they just hand them out, they don't take them back when they expire and make sure that the recipients are on a plane back to their home countries, i.e. there is no accountability. They should be escorting those people at the airport!
The LAST thing we need in this area is more unskilled workers! Or more "lawn cutting services." Or more waiters/waitresses with some type of "degree" in a field that they will never be able to work in.
It's rediculous, the "official" jobless rate is something like 9.4% but everyone knows it's much higher yet the govt. is *still* handing out work visas?

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ORIGINAL: realwhiteknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

dovie!
I disagree with it taking 100 years to have a Hispanic President!
I give it about 10 anos, at the latest
Great post, I am going to work even harder to master Spanish!
Muchas gracias Senorita!

We are taking over White man!
Give us back our land!
Viva la liberte!

<---is going to go along with the program!
Senorita Marini

Nice. Nice to hear you clearly illustrate the difference between pride and resentment/agression. I hope you do better in 'taking over' our country than the Mexican government did for their country, cause you know there aren't *any* problems there

We all know it's really the Chinese who will be taking over America within a hundred anyway. That, I'm ok with.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They came the same way as any other group... work visas that expired and they never went home. Makes me think the work visa program needs to be redesigned.

Tazzy, the unemployment rate in my area here they said on the news is between 14 and 17%!
The only people we "need" comming to this country are highly skilled people like Dr's, Nurses, Engineers etc.
Those "work visa" programs are like any other govt. program, eventually they get out of control! The "agency" gets bigger and bigger and has to justify it's existance. And they just hand them out, they don't take them back when they expire and make sure that the recipients are on a plane back to their home countries, i.e. there is no accountability. They should be escorting those people at the airport!
The LAST thing we need in this area is more unskilled workers! Or more "lawn cutting services." Or more waiters/waitresses with some type of "degree" in a field that they will never be able to work in.
It's rediculous, the "official" jobless rate is something like 9.4% but everyone knows it's much higher yet the govt. is *still* handing out work visas?

I grew up with people that devalued education the way you do, popeye, they thought all those educated folks were wasting their time... unless they were sick and needed a doctor or something.

You know, you are right, people need to go out and work doing any old thing... because we all need to look busy, Jesus us coming

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Julia, these days you need the right type of education. We've all heard the story of the welfare recipient who went to school nights and got a "degree" in "social work" and got a job at,... the welfare office.
Go get a degree in Electrical Engineering instead and then I'll be impressed!

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I vote, Great Wall of America. It'll be *totally* fun. We can attract tourists to come see it every year. Unfortunately mot people don't seem to think we need to build another one to keep those pesky Canadians from coming in. That *would* be alot of tax dollars just to keep ice hockey enthusiasts and the illegal maple syrup out of our country, but it'd be worth it.

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ss

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ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

A fence? Fences can be cut.

Putting troops on the border every 500 to 1000 feet? That is an excessive amount of manpower, and would it be effective stopping large groups of people crossing the border?

The most secure border in modern history was probably the Cold War border between East and West Germany. To keep their people from leaving—logistically much easier than keeping others from entering—the East Germans built more than 700 watchtowers, sprinkled more than a million antipersonnel mines, created a deep no-man's zone of barbed wire and electric fencing, and deployed nearly 50 guards per square mile with shoot-to-kill orders. Even so about 1,000 people each year somehow managed to find a way across. source

Perhaps if we brought ALL of the US troops presently stationed around the world, we could effectively secure the border with constant air, mechanized and foot patrols. Guard towers every thousand feet, anti personnel devices (landmines, razor wire, electric fences) but would it be enough?

Would that stop tunneling? Sure there are sensors to detect tunneling, but what do you do when you detect a tunnel? Use explosives to cave it in?


Securing the US Mexico border is much more complicated than just putting up a fence and patrolling a border.

You would need constant patrols, and not every so often but round the clock patrols.

We should bring the troops home from Iraq/Afghanistan and invade 75 miles into Mexican territory and set up shop.  This would force not only the Mexican Oligarchy but the people there to face up to the internal problems that are Mexico. There will be no change at the border no matter what we do unless the internal problems if Mexico are addressed.

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Julia, these days you need the right type of education. We've all heard the story of the welfare recipient who went to school nights and got a "degree" in "social work" and got a job at,... the welfare office.
Go get a degree in Electrical Engineering instead and then I'll be impressed!

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

These are the only figures I could come up with, and they deal with Iraq, but it costs $390,000 to support one US soldier in Iraq or $1068 a day. As of Oct. 2009, total cost per month for operations in Iraq was $7.3 billion.

For FY 2004, it was estimated that the average US soldier NOT on combat deployment cost $112000 a year, that is to feed, clothe, house, train, and equip.

Now the border between the US and Mexico is, as previously stated, 1969 miles.

Let us estimate 25 men per mile on foot patrol, that totals 49,225 men and women. That is a cost of $5.5132 Billion dollars per year, and that is the cost of just the foot soldiers. For one shift, so four shifts would be 196000 men and women and cost a total of $22billion dollars.

Lets put a guard tower every two thousand feet, that is 5198 guard towers, each with four men, that is another 20,792 men, costing approxiamately $2.3 billion dollars a year. Again, one shift, so 83,168 men and women for a cost of $9.2 billion dollars for four shifts.

Now then there is the cost of the additional military installations along the border to house these men and the equipment that will be needed, detention facilities to hold captured illegal aliens, the new road network so these installations can be maintained and supplied.

Figure an installation to house a battalion every 20 miles, so you may as well use eminent domain and seize all the land along the border to a depth of say five miles, so that 9845 square miles of land that needs to be purchased to with more land needed around the bases established to house the troops.

Considering the scope of such a project, I do believe we may have found a way to end unemployment in the United States.

One more thing, we would probably need to reinstate the draft to cover the manpower needs both on the border and internationally.