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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 8:05:16 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I want to go work in the desert. It has got to be better than my last job at UPS. I had to lift packages and work in an air conditioned environment.

From damn near the very first moment that I walk through the door those fuckers expected me to lift and move packages . I told those a-holes to shove that Goddam job up their ass!!!

The desert sounds nice. I hear it is very peaceful.


You know, I want to go work in the desert too, it has to beat writing in my own home, working at my own schedule. It even has some benefits, such as working with pesticides that might get me high

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 8:17:05 AM   
truckinslave


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Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Truckinslave, secure as in making it impossible for someone to cross illegally.


In the same spirit as: "No generalization is worth a damn, including this one", it's impossible to make it impossible to cross a border. People broke out of Berlin. People break out of jails. Someone could dig a tunnel 126 miles long and 2,367 feet deep.....

It is clearly not necessary to make it impossible to cross the border illegally. Or possible.

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 8:25:32 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		If every employer would only take the time to identify their "consevative" minded employees and fire them we would have a group of people with the right mindset that would be willing to pick up their families and all of their possessions and head into the desert to build "THE WALL."

"Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
There's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one's a coon!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There's one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I'd have all of you shot!"




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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 8:28:02 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Pancho was a bandit boys
His horse was fast as polished steel
Wore his gun outside his pants
For all the honest world to feel
Pancho met his match you know
On the deserts down in Mexico
Nobody heard his dying words
That's the way it goes

TownesVanZandtDom

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 8:41:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBTq9wz1bSw&feature=related

Ai yee, Vato!!!!!!!

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 8:44:50 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tXhAYl173U

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 10:27:00 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

OP: "What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico?"

The desire to, imo.



Bingo,
I have said this, you have said this, many, many others are saying it.
At the end of the day, and talking about this topic until infinity, this
is what it has always been about.
Either we desire it, or we do not.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Profile   Post #: 267
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 10:32:28 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, and so now that we have that issue resolved, we are at exactly zero that are going to go there and get them swell fucking jobs.


Thank god, because I only have 8 months left of school and it really would have sucked if I had to quit just to go pick some veggies.

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 10:34:29 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nope, and so now that we have that issue resolved, we are at exactly zero that are going to go there and get them swell fucking jobs.


Thank god, because I only have 8 months left of school and it really would have sucked if I had to quit just to go pick some veggies.


**Cuddles boi, cause her avatar just fits her!**


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 10:47:44 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

OP: "What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico?"

The desire to, imo.



Bingo,
I have said this, you have said this, many, many others are saying it.
At the end of the day, and talking about this topic until infinity, this
is what it has always been about.
Either we desire it, or we do not.


Can you tell me, what government has ever been effective in keeping a border in place over the long term? I am really interested in your answer

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 11:00:53 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

OP: "What would it take to actually secure the border with Mexico?"

The desire to, imo.



Bingo,
I have said this, you have said this, many, many others are saying it.
At the end of the day, and talking about this topic until infinity, this
is what it has always been about.
Either we desire it, or we do not.


Can you tell me, what government has ever been effective in keeping a border in place over the long term? I am really interested in your answer


Right off the top of my head, I would say East Germany did a pretty good job of keeping their border secure. Of course you had to put up with the dead bodies smelling everything up, but I bet people thought twice before trying to cross it.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 11:12:46 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Right off the top of my head, I would say East Germany did a pretty good job of keeping their border secure. Of course you had to put up with the dead bodies smelling everything up, but I bet people thought twice before trying to cross it.


That border fell in only a little more than a generation. It was erected in 1961 and fell by 1989....which means it was only in place for 18 years. I would not call that "effective". They built the wall in the first place because the border was too porous to enforce. It was only 87 miles long, and if you compare this with our border with Mexico, it seems rather much to expect that if they couldn't keep that boundary for a generation and a half, we can't keep one that is almost 2000 miles long with our neighbor to the South. They are our neighbors, it makes no sense to build a wall between us.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 11:22:58 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Right off the top of my head, I would say East Germany did a pretty good job of keeping their border secure. Of course you had to put up with the dead bodies smelling everything up, but I bet people thought twice before trying to cross it.


That border fell in only a little more than a generation. It was erected in 1961 and fell by 1989....which means it was only in place for 18 years. I would not call that "effective". They built the wall in the first place because the border was too porous to enforce. It was only 87 miles long, and if you compare this with our border with Mexico, it seems rather much to expect that if they couldn't keep that boundary for a generation and a half, we can't keep one that is almost 2000 miles long with our neighbor to the South. They are our neighbors, it makes no sense to build a wall between us.



I guess we have different ideas of long term then. But that's ok, it won't be the first time we disagreed on something. We do agree that a wall would be a bad idea though, so thats something. baby steps and all.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 11:27:11 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I dont know, the border between north and south Korea seems pretty secure

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 11:27:29 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I guess we have different ideas of long term then. But that's ok, it won't be the first time we disagreed on something. We do agree that a wall would be a bad idea though, so thats something. baby steps and all.


How much money is going to go into this wall, manning it, etc... how long is the benefit from this outrageous expense supposed to last? It seems very idiotic to try to enforce a border that is unenforceable. Perhaps one could justify it if Mexico was a military threat, but they aren't. We are basically doing this because some of us are xenophobic and some want to keep those poor brown people where they belong... not everyone who is pro-fence, but I would venture to say most. Otherwise these fence builders would have more worry about the very real threat of the terrorist cells that exist in our mostly open border with Canada

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 11:34:57 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I dont know, the border between north and south Korea seems pretty secure


quote:

The Korean Demilitarized Zone (Korean: 한반도 비무장지대) is a strip of land running across the Korean Peninsula that serves as a buffer zone between North and South Korea. The DMZ cuts the Korean Peninsula roughly in half, crossing the 38th parallel on an angle, with the west end of the DMZ lying south of the parallel and the east end lying north of it. It is 250 kilometres (160 miles) long [1], approximately 4 km (2.5 mi) wide and is the most heavily militarized border in the world.[2][3]


quote:

In the ceasefire of July 27, 1953, the DMZ was created as each side agreed in the armistice to move their troops back 2,000 m (2,200 yards) from the front line, creating a buffer zone 4 km (2.5 mi) wide. The Military Demarcation Line (MDL) goes down the center of the DMZ and indicates exactly where the front was when the agreement was signed. Since the armistice agreement [4] was never followed by a peace treaty, the two Koreas are still technically at war.



So, what we have here is a nation at war, still, as there has never been an a peace treaty. How much has this border cost to maintain? I would not call it "effective" because it has not produced any sort of peace. It must be maintained at a high expense. If we were to pull out it would drop very quickly.

I suppose we have differing views of "effective" perhaps.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 11:44:49 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I pointed out the cost of putting the military on the border, and contrary to popular belief, since it is considered a national security issue, there is no conflict with the posse comitatus act. It has already been discussed officially.


Then there is the cost of building a physical fence, $2 Billions plus dollars, which is really not that bad when you consider it.

It has also been pointed out that putting military personnel on this kind of duty leads to morale problems, so the troops would have to be rotated off the fence duty every two months, which has its own expense.

The positive side of actually doing it this way is that you have a large number of armed personnel who can deal with armed drug traffickers trying to move drugs across the border in remote areas.

That helps Mexico deal with the drug gang problem.

The drawbacks to such an operation is clear to anyone that really thinks about it. Once you militarize a border, you have to buy up all the land along the border and then you are dealing with the civilians who may not want to sell. The fence would also be running along a couple of Indian reservations, which means taking Indian land given them in treaties to complete the project.

It all means a lot of time in court.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 11:47:46 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I guess we have different ideas of long term then. But that's ok, it won't be the first time we disagreed on something. We do agree that a wall would be a bad idea though, so thats something. baby steps and all.


How much money is going to go into this wall, manning it, etc... how long is the benefit from this outrageous expense supposed to last? It seems very idiotic to try to enforce a border that is unenforceable. Perhaps one could justify it if Mexico was a military threat, but they aren't. We are basically doing this because some of us are xenophobic and some want to keep those poor brown people where they belong... not everyone who is pro-fence, but I would venture to say most. Otherwise these fence builders would have more worry about the very real threat of the terrorist cells that exist in our mostly open border with Canada



That could be part of the reason I said "We do agree that a wall would be a bad idea"


_____________________________

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 1:44:07 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I guess we have different ideas of long term then. But that's ok, it won't be the first time we disagreed on something. We do agree that a wall would be a bad idea though, so thats something. baby steps and all.


How much money is going to go into this wall, manning it, etc... how long is the benefit from this outrageous expense supposed to last? It seems very idiotic to try to enforce a border that is unenforceable. Perhaps one could justify it if Mexico was a military threat, but they aren't. We are basically doing this because some of us are xenophobic and some want to keep those poor brown people where they belong... not everyone who is pro-fence, but I would venture to say most. Otherwise these fence builders would have more worry about the very real threat of the terrorist cells that exist in our mostly open border with Canada



That could be part of the reason I said "We do agree that a wall would be a bad idea"




Then you and a lot of others seem to be in the minority.

quote:

The Obama administration announced on Tuesday that it is halting funding of the fence along the U.S.-Mexico border, but 59% of Americans believe the United States should continue to build that fence.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 26% of adults disagree and think the building of the fence should be stopped. Fifteen percent (15%) more are not sure.


59% Say U.S. Should Continue To Build Fence on U.S.-Mexico Border

Of course, there is one aspect that has not been addressed, the environmental impact of such a structure. The impact on local animals species would be considerable.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: What would it take to actually secure the border wi... - 7/28/2010 6:35:24 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

It's a dry heat there right?

This humidity is wearing my ass out. What does it pay to trim cacti?


Female cacti don't trim they wax

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Profile   Post #: 280
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