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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 6:14:21 PM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		You know what I hate about the gun control folks?  Their only method of self defense is that they hope nothing bad ever happens.  And they want to force the rest of us to live the same way.

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 6:16:19 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminRho

Having perused the comments after my first post, I came to the conclusion that what I said probably appeared unneccessarily harsh, even though it was not meant that way (I even used a smilie, darn it ). I also decided that I may have erred with my post, and asked a fellow mod to take a look at this thread. We have concluded that, since the OP is vague as to what the topic is, general discussion of guns, gun ownership, the 2nd Amendment, and even the joys of venison will be allowed.

Mea culpa to all, and thanks for keeping your objections civil and not kicking this newbie mod's butt too hard. 



Let me be the first to say it didn't sound harsh to me at all - I thought your tone and phrasing was very courteous, professional, and even friendly. I didn't completely agree with what seemed to be the narrow parameters you were drawing (and I was a little disappointed that it seemed to close off a lot of room for discussion), but at the same time I never questioned it because your position was very logical and very well-articulated. It read like a legal opinion. My first thought was, "Damn. I may not agree with this mod, but they sure know what they're doing!"

Whoever you are, I personally think you're going to make one hell of a moderator. Welcome!


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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 6:25:46 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Agreed. I have been mod slapped, that was no mod slap.

And to be honest, not a lot of what's written here belongs in the Library of Congress.

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(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 6:35:28 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		There - you see, Rho? You've got two of the most incorrigible, confrontational, and downright exasperating posters on the site - two curmudgeons who've never set foot inside any of the "we love the mods!!!" threads - saying you're doing a great job. So you're either doing something very right, or... mmm.... something very wrong. I'm gonna go with "right." 

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 6:38:35 PM   
VideoAdminRho


Posts: 2055
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		Right sounds good to me. Thanks to you both 

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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 8:47:12 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Are gun-owners generally left-wing, anti-government sorts of people then?


Not typically. Gun owners and their advocates tend to be right wing anti-tyranny sorts of folks. Left wingers tend to feel that choice is very important yet that sentiment seems to inexplicably stop on a dime (and give you nine cents change back) when the discussion turns to firearms ownership. True, it is hard to envision a lone gun owner holding off a tyrannical government or even the local police department with his 9mm but taking it away makes it all the more easy. As my signature lines states - it's not about guns, it's about control.




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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 8:52:22 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Are gun-owners generally left-wing, anti-government sorts of people then?


Not typically. Gun owners and their advocates tend to be right wing anti-tyranny sorts of folks. Left wingers tend to feel that choice is very important yet that sentiment seems to inexplicably stop on a dime (and give you nine cents change back) when the discussion turns to firearms ownership. True, it is hard to envision a lone gun owner holding off a tyrannical government or even the local police department with his 9mm but taking it away makes it all the more easy. As my signature lines states - it's not about guns, it's about control.


I think it depends on where you live. I'm about as liberal as you can get, and most of my friends who are gun owners are pretty far left too.

A lot of us Midwestern liberals are libertarian, pragmatic-type liberals. We figure that anything that doesn't concern us just doesn't concern us.


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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 8:56:30 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda


The 2nd Amendment is never going anywhere, at least not in my lifetime. Poll after poll makes it clear that a huge majority of American citizens support the right to private ownership of firearms.



This is what I do not understand. You have a right to gun ownership, unless their are issues of suitability. So how can it be that some citizens are denied this right simply because they live in a state which proscribes gun ownership. Surely these people are denied their rights. Surely action can be taken against these states.


Nobody in any state is denied the right to own a gun, though. Some states - like California and Massachusetts - have somewhat restrictive laws about the types of weapons you can own,  and the number of hoops you have to jump through to buy one, but no state bans firearm ownership outright. It'd be unconstitutional.


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Profile   Post #: 168
RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 9:03:58 PM   
captainblack


Posts: 146
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline 		guncontrol: Verb - A tight pattern in the center of mass.
Usage: Jane has great guncontrol, so no one messes with her now.

CB

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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: My kind of gun control - 7/31/2010 9:23:44 PM   
captainblack


Posts: 146
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Say it is valid...but... my opinion and no statistics to back it up...I would bet for every situation like this post at least three children are killed in accidents with home defense guns.

I am only going by local news stories in my area.

Butch


Well if kids are killed by playing with their folks home defense weapons then that is just evolution at work.

There were enough arms in my childhood home to arm a platoon of soldiers. We had rifles, pistols, and shotguns. I never once played with them even though they were not locked away. Some of them were kept loaded. In particular there were always 2 loaded pistols and a loaded 12 gauge shotgun in the house. I was taught from the time I could crawl not to touch the guns unless my father was showing the weapons to friends. In which case I was included in the show and tell. My father taught me to make sure the mechanism was open, or the gun was broken and to check for shells as soon as I had it in my hands. He taught me to never point it at anything I did not want to kill. He taught me to hand a gun in a safe way to another, again making sure the mechanism was open or the gun was broken (technical term for a single or double barrel shotgun being open). I knew better from a very early age than to touch a gun unless my father handed it to me. I learned to shoot at the age of about 4. By the time I was 10 or so I had the OK to grab one of the 3 loaded guns if anyone I did not know forced their way into the house. It never happened, but I could have done it and I would have dropped any intruder and not thought twice about it.

If people who keep guns have kids and they do not make the guns a part of the kids life then yes things will happen, because kids are curious. If their kids get killed because they did not do the right thing the problem is not the gun it is that they were an unfit parent and it is evolution's way of dealing with the situation.

CB


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RE: My kind of gun control - 8/1/2010 3:02:51 AM   
splorff


Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The chances of anyone pulling a gun on either of us, in the UK, are so remote that the question of the police needing to protect us hardly comes into it. I could tour the country my whole life with my fists rolled and never even see a gun, never mind a gun fight!

quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

It is not such a remote possibility for some. There is gun crime in many British cities, London. Nottingham, Birmingham and Man[Gun]chester being prime examples. Even in this retirement seaside town where I live we have seen it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It was realised way back in the 1830s, when hundreds of offences that had carried the death penalty were wiped out, that this wasn't the case. Here in the UK, at least, the statistics haven't supported that view. One of the arguments was that it was considered a bad idea to have too many criminals believe that they had everything to lose by getting caught - therefore, it was better to kill a copper rather than get caught by one. If you went ready to kill a copper, then you were of course able to kill anyone else, too. Result: crime, particularly violent crime, gets ratcheted up.

Still, that's another argument for another thread.


quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff
And which liberal exactly was it who realised this ? I guess he must have died sometime in the 1830’s too.

It’s a shame we cant direct him to the findings Jeff provided - the academic in Florida, and also to the results seen in the town of Kenesaw ? Ga.

I’m thinking he wouldn’t like statistics of that type, for of course, they don’t support his distorted liberal world view.



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RE: My kind of gun control - 8/1/2010 3:23:44 AM   
splorff


Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda


Nobody in any state is denied the right to own a gun, though. Some states - like California and Massachusetts - have somewhat restrictive laws about the types of weapons you can own,  and the number of hoops you have to jump through to buy one, but no state bans firearm ownership outright. It'd be unconstitutional.



Thanks for that Panda

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: My kind of gun control - 8/1/2010 1:57:57 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I'm far too distanced from the situation of this one woman for it to be of any real, visceral concern to me, Panda.  Don't ask me to view the situation of this or that individual in the USA  - that's not the context in which I view any discussion about guns.  Frankly, I don't care about it.  I shall see the context of the argument in the way that suits me.   That is, I see American society, as a whole.  I'm fully aware that the pro-gun lobby would demand that I premise any argument about guns on the individual - but I'm not going to do that.  I'm resolutely going to premise it on what's good for the society as a whole.  And as a whole, I see American society as one which loves its guns, and gets an unhealthy buzz out of killing.


It's always much easier to frame a debate in vague generalities and on our own terms. What you fail to understand is that the American gun culture you allude to is not the large, monolithic creature your position paints it as. It is a collection of individuals. The woman in that story, me and every other gun owner in our country. The law abiding gun owner just wishes to defend them self while hoping to never actually have to do so. Portraying them as some gun crazed mob looking for their next gun induced high is shortsighted, at best. "I shall see the context of the argument in the way that suits me" is really just another way to say "These blinders suit me quite well, thank you very much".


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RE: My kind of gun control - 8/1/2010 7:49:23 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I am still snorking at Jeff being a "curmudgeon".


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RE: My kind of gun control - 8/2/2010 2:46:00 AM   
splorff


Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline 		I have just read about a retired couple in the UK. Criminals broke into their home. Beat and tied them, then tortured them. Of course, the victims were unarmed. Its against the law for the citizen to have a gun in the UK for self protection.

Heaven forbid that crime of this type be reduced, or even worse, some dirt bag get killed.

< Message edited by splorff -- 8/2/2010 2:47:01 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 175
RE: My kind of gun control - 8/2/2010 7:14:33 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		We could cite hundreds of such stories. Anti gun people don't care.

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RE: My kind of gun control - 8/2/2010 12:47:14 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thanks for reading my posts... keep at it and you will see what i was trying to say...
I see what you are trying to say...let me see if I have it right:

you are ALL for gun owners AS LONG AS it is heavily regulated by the government.

What sort of regulations...other than a course in firearm safety, being of a specific age, and a non-felon...would you require?  Or that you think the government should require?


No... I am all for guns as long as the people using them know what they are doing... Zenny does not think it is worth a few hops to jump through to help reduce accidental gun deaths and injuries in children...I do...He thinks those 6 instances were the only ones in my area... they were not I was just tired of posting them... And in my area more kids are maimed then criminals shot by gun owners….a lot more.

Now tell me as a gun owner, which I am sure you are, would it kill you to take a course on gun safety and need to pass a competency test?

Butch

Ps... It would also be nice to take an operation test...after all it would be nice if the little old lady with the 9mm could hit the side of a barn rather than the childrens bedroom next door...
No...it would not kill me, butch.  As a matter of fact, I learned all I needed to know about gun safety when I was in Junior High back in the "dark days" before the bleeding hearts got to the schools with their "if you teach them about guns, they'll go out and buy one and HURT somebody" philosophy.  Funny how they feel that way about gun education but not about sex education.  Back to the point though...we were required to take a course in conservation...part of that course was a hunter's safety course.  Then, of course, there is the firearm training I received as a soldier.  I was lucky...I received safety training at two differing times in my life.  And I am glad I got it.  But, to my brain...the one that has respect for the constitution...you don't regulate something that is a constitutional right.  We can't do it with the freedom of the press, we can't do it with the freedom to peacefully assemble, and we can't do it with the right to keep and bear arms.  Not without a constitutional amendment.  Good luck with that.

I agree...it makes sense to know what you are doing before you pick up a gun.  But it makes sense to know what you are doing before you get behind the wheel of an automobile.  That STILL doesn't stop dumbasses from doing so, even WITH the heavy regulations surrounding the privilege of driving a vehicle.  And there are still more automobile deaths every day as compared to death by handgun.

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RE: My kind of gun control - 8/2/2010 6:32:57 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But, to my brain...the one that has respect for the constitution...you don't regulate something that is a constitutional right.  We can't do it with the freedom of the press, we can't do it with the freedom to peacefully assemble, and we can't do it with the right to keep and bear arms.  Not without a constitutional amendment.  Good luck with that.



Maybe I am reading you wrong...but if you are saying the Constitution forbids the regulation of a Constitution amendment you are wrong...If only by all the existing useless gun laws on the books.

Butch

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RE: My kind of gun control - 8/2/2010 8:08:30 PM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		The left isn`t anti-gun or against gun ownership.

What most normal average Americans are against is arming the mentally ill or wife beaters and criminals and now,terrorists.

Something the NRA types don`t seem to be concerned about.


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RE: My kind of gun control - 8/4/2010 3:54:42 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The left isn`t anti-gun or against gun ownership.

What most normal average Americans are against is arming the mentally ill or wife beaters and criminals and now,terrorists.

Something the NRA types don`t seem to be concerned about.

But then...not all us "gun-types" are members of the N.R.A.

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Profile   Post #: 180
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