RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US?

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (Full Version)

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toxic66 -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 11:44:12 AM)
quote: That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes. Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes? You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you.

Slavehandsome -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 11:49:28 AM)
How about deploying the military to occupy corporate headquarters until they brought the jobs back?

lobodomslavery -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 12:27:55 PM)
How about bringing in a wealth tax for those who can afford it A suggestion $150,000-$300,000- 15% wealth tax $400,000-$800,000-20% wealth tax $850,000-$1,000,0000- 30% wealth tax $1,500,000-$3,000,000- 45% wealth tax $4,000,000+ - 50% wealth tax kevin

jlf1961 -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 3:24:42 PM)
Actually, taxing companies that have outsourced jobs sounds pretty good to me, but then I am a liberal democrat who happens to believe in owning firearms

popeye1250 -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 4:22:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: toxic66 quote: That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes. Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes? You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you. Toxic, true, a better way would be to exclude all the companies who outsourced from the U.S. from our markets. If they want to make it in China fine, sell it in China not here in the U.S. Having access to the U.S. market is not a "right." Fuck those traitors!

DarkSteven -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 5:11:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: toxic66 quote: That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes. Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes? You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you. Not at all. Costs are not fixed, margins are not fixed, none of it is. If taxes are raised then the corporation has to decide to what degree they can recover costs by passing them along. It does change the final pricing but it is NOT a simple add-on equivalent to the entire cost of the additional tax.

vincentML -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 5:55:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Actually, taxing companies that have outsourced jobs sounds pretty good to me, but then I am a liberal democrat who happens to believe in owning firearms I feel the concept is flawed. It will fail. Consider when the automobile was invented. Horse drawn carriages were the standard mode of transport. Blacksmiths had a thriving business in horses shoes. When the automobile became ubiquitous all the horses were retired except for a few specialized cases. Do ya think placing a horseshoe tax on the automobile would have kept the smithy in business? Not at all. That business was doomed. Automobiles killed the blacksmith business and video killed the radio star. Globalization has had a deleterious effect on manufacturing in the US. What did the blacksmith do to survive and thrive? He learned a new craft. The US is transforming from a mfg-ing economy to a service and technological economy. Young people in their 20s and 30s are going to night school to learn new skills suited for the new economy. There is a push and pull in the jobs market. People will seek out and/or create jobs that have value in our economy and leave the manufacture of cheap goods to outsourcing. Do ya think website designing is an ancient skill? I would say the same thing for low paying manual work that is "outsourced" within our own borders to illegal immigrants. People who have been displaced from those low wage jobs have gone on to develop new employment skills. Or, they had better. Unfortunately, some are too old or ill or otherwise unable to take the initiative. I don't have much faith in retraining programs but I suppose they are partly a solution. So yeh, many suffer. Sad to say that has always been a force in Capitalism that we have not been too quick to acknowledge. Technology and circumstances change the job market. Labor is no longer secure. Maybe never was. We have to face the fact that some jobs will never come back because they are of a different era. I doubt either a tax or a tariff on goods will be effective or in the long run will be needed. We need to adopt our education system to the changing times.

TreasureKY -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 6:01:34 PM)
FR: Considering that those evil, greedy corporations are backed by evil, greedy people... If the cost of doing business increases to the point of financial loss, don't think that all those evil, greedy people won't simply take their balls and go home. No one is holding a gun to the heads to anyone to keep corporations going. Do you think those evil, greedy corporate people don't already have enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives? Of course, they may have to "tighten the belt" some... stopping all philanthropic endeavors would help them make the money last much longer. No need to make big contributions to political campaigns, either, since their corporate interests would be no more. Big tax savings would follow since they wouldn't have to worry about "new" income to be taxed, interest tax can be avoided if they pull their money from interest bearing instruments, and they can always liquidate their investment portfolios... Best not to risk losing any money, anyway. Of course, everyone employed by those corporations will no longer have anywhere to work. Suppliers will lose their business, too... as well as any other business that relies on providing support to big corporations. That's everything from office supplies to accounting services to shipping companies. But that's no skin off the noses of the evil, greedy corporate people. They're off enjoying life in some country with a cost of living that is a fraction of the US where their money lets them live like kings. There might be some shortages of manufactured goods available to the "common people", but those shortages can always be made up by imports... provided the mom and pop businesses who'll be trying to meet the needs of everyone have the wherewithall and resources to manage foreign imports. Of course, that's assuming the government will be able to continue to provide unemployment income for all those displaced corporate workers so that they can afford to buy anything at all. The Government is going to have to tighten its belt a bit, too. There's all that tax revenue they won't be getting now because the evil, greedy corporate people packed up their money and moved to Puerto Rico and Argentina. I'm sure there'll be small companies who will try to step in to fill the big boys shoes... providing they can find someone to supply the financial investment needed for their growth. With all that money moved from US accounts, the banks might have a hard time, too. It's not a pretty picture, but don't think it isn't possible. Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina. [;)]

FirmhandKY -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 6:08:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina. [;)] That was a nice mountain-top you showed me. You could see the beach from the front veranda, I think. Only half a mil, wasn't it? You suppose we can pay the help a couple of dollars a day to scrub the floors and tend the crops? It would be a big pay raise for most of em. Firm

thishereboi -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 6:12:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina. [;)] That was a nice mountain-top you showed me. You could see the beach from the front veranda, I think. Only half a mil, wasn't it? You suppose we can pay the help a couple of dollars a day to scrub the floors and tend the crops? It would be a big pay raise for most of em. Firm Sounds nice, I don't suppose you'll need a boi down there to help out?[:)]

TreasureKY -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 6:13:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina. [;)] That was a nice mountain-top you showed me. You could see the beach from the front veranda, I think. Only half a mil, wasn't it? You suppose we can pay the help a couple of dollars a day to scrub the floors and tend the crops? It would be a big pay raise for most of em. Firm My favorite part was the private waterfall. [:D] From what I've found out so far, we could easily employ a cadre of workers to tend the house and acreage... and we'd be improving their standard of living tremendously!

TreasureKY -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 6:15:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina. [;)] That was a nice mountain-top you showed me. You could see the beach from the front veranda, I think. Only half a mil, wasn't it? You suppose we can pay the help a couple of dollars a day to scrub the floors and tend the crops? It would be a big pay raise for most of em. Firm Sounds nice, I don't suppose you'll need a boi down there to help out?[:)] Hmmm... depends. Can you cook? [:D]

DomYngBlk -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 6:53:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY FR: Considering that those evil, greedy corporations are backed by evil, greedy people... If the cost of doing business increases to the point of financial loss, don't think that all those evil, greedy people won't simply take their balls and go home. No one is holding a gun to the heads to anyone to keep corporations going. Do you think those evil, greedy corporate people don't already have enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives? Of course, they may have to "tighten the belt" some... stopping all philanthropic endeavors would help them make the money last much longer. No need to make big contributions to political campaigns, either, since their corporate interests would be no more. Big tax savings would follow since they wouldn't have to worry about "new" income to be taxed, interest tax can be avoided if they pull their money from interest bearing instruments, and they can always liquidate their investment portfolios... Best not to risk losing any money, anyway. Of course, everyone employed by those corporations will no longer have anywhere to work. Suppliers will lose their business, too... as well as any other business that relies on providing support to big corporations. That's everything from office supplies to accounting services to shipping companies. But that's no skin off the noses of the evil, greedy corporate people. They're off enjoying life in some country with a cost of living that is a fraction of the US where their money lets them live like kings. There might be some shortages of manufactured goods available to the "common people", but those shortages can always be made up by imports... provided the mom and pop businesses who'll be trying to meet the needs of everyone have the wherewithall and resources to manage foreign imports. Of course, that's assuming the government will be able to continue to provide unemployment income for all those displaced corporate workers so that they can afford to buy anything at all. The Government is going to have to tighten its belt a bit, too. There's all that tax revenue they won't be getting now because the evil, greedy corporate people packed up their money and moved to Puerto Rico and Argentina. I'm sure there'll be small companies who will try to step in to fill the big boys shoes... providing they can find someone to supply the financial investment needed for their growth. With all that money moved from US accounts, the banks might have a hard time, too. It's not a pretty picture, but don't think it isn't possible. Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina. [;)] Actually that is pretty simply sorted. If Daddywarbucks closes a plant or a whole business then we will slap him with a closure tax whereby the Gov't will be compensated for the amount of money that it will have to pay out in Unemployment claims, retraining, etc.....Next we limit capital flows outside of the US so that big daddy cannot move his money easily out of the US in sort of a Chinese fashion. We will use this tax money to help one of the Mom and Pops buy begin moving into the plants and re-employing the people. Since it will be a favored industry we will give him favorable import tariffs against competition. He won't be missed.... That way the former daddy warbucks can cash his chips in and go sip lemonade for the rest of his life and the country that gave him the ability to make such vast amounts of money will keep moving along without him.

thornhappy -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 7:00:15 PM)
Corporations used to pay the majority of the budget. When their taxes were cut, it got levied on individuals. Now people complain about high taxes, even though the rate for the highest bracket about 2/3 of what it used to be, IIRC. quote: ORIGINAL: toxic66 quote: That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes. Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes? You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 7:12:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk Actually that is pretty simply sorted. If Daddywarbucks closes a plant or a whole business then we will slap him with a closure tax whereby the Gov't will be compensated for the amount of money that it will have to pay out in Unemployment claims, retraining, etc.....Next we limit capital flows outside of the US so that big daddy cannot move his money easily out of the US in sort of a Chinese fashion. We will use this tax money to help one of the Mom and Pops buy begin moving into the plants and re-employing the people. Since it will be a favored industry we will give him favorable import tariffs against competition. He won't be missed.... That way the former daddy warbucks can cash his chips in and go sip lemonade for the rest of his life and the country that gave him the ability to make such vast amounts of money will keep moving along without him. You mean that the private property of the owners of the means of production will be nationalized, and then redistributed and run according to politically correct purposes? Been done. Several times. Never works out. But good luck with that. Firm

DomYngBlk -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 7:17:11 PM)
Not at all. We will invest with the new owners so that production can move forward. Say Limbaugh decided to cash in his chips. I sure we could a suitable loudmouthed idiot to fill the slots and keep Clear Channel afloat.

rulemylife -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 7:40:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy You mean the GE that had no US profits? And why was that possible Willbeur when they had an overall profit of $10.8 billion? You think it might have had something to do with tax shelters and outsourcing?

rulemylife -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 7:48:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: toxic66 You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you. What utter and complete bullshit!!!!!! Are you really naive enough to believe that if we eliminate corporate taxes the corporations will smile down on us benevolently and prices will drop, wages will increase, and we can walk hand-in-hand down the yellow brick road?

rulemylife -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 8:06:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML I feel the concept is flawed. It will fail. Consider when the automobile was invented. Horse drawn carriages were the standard mode of transport. Blacksmiths had a thriving business in horses shoes. When the automobile became ubiquitous all the horses were retired except for a few specialized cases. Do ya think placing a horseshoe tax on the automobile would have kept the smithy in business? Not at all. That business was doomed. Automobiles killed the blacksmith business and video killed the radio star. Globalization has had a deleterious effect on manufacturing in the US. What did the blacksmith do to survive and thrive? He learned a new craft. The US is transforming from a mfg-ing economy to a service and technological economy. Young people in their 20s and 30s are going to night school to learn new skills suited for the new economy. There is a push and pull in the jobs market. People will seek out and/or create jobs that have value in our economy and leave the manufacture of cheap goods to outsourcing. Do ya think website designing is an ancient skill? I would say the same thing for low paying manual work that is "outsourced" within our own borders to illegal immigrants. People who have been displaced from those low wage jobs have gone on to develop new employment skills. Or, they had better. Unfortunately, some are too old or ill or otherwise unable to take the initiative. I don't have much faith in retraining programs but I suppose they are partly a solution. So yeh, many suffer. Sad to say that has always been a force in Capitalism that we have not been too quick to acknowledge. Technology and circumstances change the job market. Labor is no longer secure. Maybe never was. We have to face the fact that some jobs will never come back because they are of a different era. I doubt either a tax or a tariff on goods will be effective or in the long run will be needed. We need to adopt our education system to the changing times. Yes this was exactly what was said to promote NAFTA. We are transforming to a service and technological economy. The only problem is those service and technology jobs are being outsourced. When was the last time you called any technical support service for your computer, Ipod, Blackberry, whatever, that you actually talked to a person in this country? Yes, we are becoming a service economy but the only things we'll be serving are Whoppers and Big Macs.

rulemylife -> RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US? (7/28/2010 8:21:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The corporate tax rate on the Federal level is 15 to 35% dependent on total revenues. That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes. Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes? Wanna get that story? GE, Exxon Paid No U.S. Income Taxes in 2009 - ABC News The most egregious example is General Electric. Last year the conglomerate generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion. Avoiding taxes is nothing new for General Electric. In 2008 its effective tax rate was 5.3%; in 2007 it was 15%. The marginal U.S. corporate rate is 35%.

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