quote:

LMFAO!!! You Sir are hilarious!! “Perhaps you might enlighten us… blah blah blah!” You expect me to write a 50 page dissertation on railroads, and industrial production (which you know no one will ever do on an Internet thread) just so you can look at the evidence and still be blind.

So you will pass off your opinion as fact?


Riddle me this: how come the United States could pick itself up and become a world power after the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, and especially the Civil War had devastated us?

Had you studied the civil war in high school you might have noticed that the north was where the industry was and the south was where the majority of the battles took place.
I am sure you were aware that russia sent both men and warships to the u.s. during the civil war to help the north.
Are you seriously suggesting that the u.s. was a "world power" in 1865?


Huh? Why could we, but yet it was beyond the abilities of your vaunted command economies of the USSR, North Korea, or East Germany?

"vaunted command economies" is your phrase not mine.
I did notice that you failed to address the foriegn aid the u.s. gave to germany and s. korea.

How come as European countries have tightened control of their economies they have started to go bankrupt, and as India and China loosened control they have become wealthier? Perhaps you could enlighten yourself on these questions.

Unless and until you have substantiated your opinions vis-a-vis germany,korea and russia it would seem that injecting new questions would only tend to muddy the discussion.
If you find yourself unable or unwilling to validate the opinions you stated then we can see you have heeded harry callahans advice "a man's got to know his limitations"


If you are such an ideologue that you cannot see the truth when it is right before your eyes,

I have offered no idiology. I have only asked you to validate your opinions.

then that is on you. I do not suffer fools gladly, so I am done.

If all you bring to the discussion is opinion then you certainly are done.
Please do try to have a nice day

quote:

The second stage of reform, in the late 1980s and 1990s, involved the privatization and contracting out of much of state-owned industry and the lifting of price controls, protectionist policies, and regulations, although state monopolies in sectors such as banking and petroleum remained. The private sector grew remarkably, accounting for as much as 70 percent of China's GDP by 2005[2], a figure larger than many Western nations. The period from 1978 to now witnessed unprecedented growth, with the economy increasing by 9.5% a year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: toxic66

quote:

LMFAO!!! You Sir are hilarious!! “Perhaps you might enlighten us… blah blah blah!” You expect me to write a 50 page dissertation on railroads, and industrial production (which you know no one will ever do on an Internet thread) just so you can look at the evidence and still be blind.

So you will pass off your opinion as fact?


Riddle me this: how come the United States could pick itself up and become a world power after the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, and especially the Civil War had devastated us?

Had you studied the civil war in high school you might have noticed that the north was where the industry was and the south was where the majority of the battles took place.
I am sure you were aware that russia sent both men and warships to the u.s. during the civil war to help the north.
Are you seriously suggesting that the u.s. was a "world power" in 1865?


Huh? Why could we, but yet it was beyond the abilities of your vaunted command economies of the USSR, North Korea, or East Germany?

"vaunted command economies" is your phrase not mine.
I did notice that you failed to address the foriegn aid the u.s. gave to germany and s. korea.

How come as European countries have tightened control of their economies they have started to go bankrupt, and as India and China loosened control they have become wealthier? Perhaps you could enlighten yourself on these questions.

Unless and until you have substantiated your opinions vis-a-vis germany,korea and russia it would seem that injecting new questions would only tend to muddy the discussion.
If you find yourself unable or unwilling to validate the opinions you stated then we can see you have heeded harry callahans advice "a man's got to know his limitations"


If you are such an ideologue that you cannot see the truth when it is right before your eyes,

I have offered no idiology. I have only asked you to validate your opinions.

then that is on you. I do not suffer fools gladly, so I am done.

If all you bring to the discussion is opinion then you certainly are done.
Please do try to have a nice day

I thought I had addressed the questions you asked. You didn't like the answers, but I addressed it.

You did not answer any of my questions and instead launched into a rant about india and greece.
You said:

quote:

government controlled markets have a long history of failure. Look at North Korea vs South Korea, East Germany vs West Germany (back when they were split), or the USSR.

I simply asked you to validate that statement with facts instead of opinion and offered you several yardsticks to use in that measurement.
So far you have not chosen to do so but rather want to discuss india and greece.
You seem rather long on opinion and short on fact.



You then tried to divert attention by demanding 50 page dissertations on Railways and analyses on industrial production.

I did not ask for fifty pages I asked you to validate your statement which you seem unwilling or unable to do.

You make a whole lot of excuses for the communist countries in question, but in the end they are just that - excuses.

I have made no excuses for anything. You have offered nothing but opinion.

I asked you a couple of questions and you could not answer them (that wasn't even a clever dodge) I provided on here a response to another post with a link showing India loosened controls on its economy and saw its economy make great progress, but you ignore that too.

No all you are trying to do is dodge validating your initial statement of your opinion


You can see that Greece is in real trouble because of all its entitlement spending, as is Britain, and even here we will be in trouble unless we reform those systems. But still you can't see any correlation. Instead of excuses for the countries we have been discussing, why don’t you name one or two countries that are communist success stories.

Here are some links (from non-partisan websites) that support what I have trying to tell you and demolish what you have been saying.

I have not made any statements. I have only asked you to validate your opinions and thus far you have refused.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

India has a very high rate of educated English speaking workers....

that I cannot understand.

It's a former British colony, old boy. Hence there's a bit of an emphasis on British style education and speaking the Queen's English. For some reason that sort of thing's more widespread in the commonwealth countries than other former colonial possessions.

quote:

I simply asked you to validate that statement with facts instead of opinion and offered you several yardsticks to use in that measurement.
So far you have not chosen to do so but rather want to discuss india and greece.
You seem rather long on opinion and short on fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: toxic66


This last is a link to a video of Milton Friedman. It only takes about a minute to watch and you might learn something from it. It might cause you to think about things, and give you a different perspective. Open you mind to other ideas and possibilities. Challenge yourself and watch it. Expand your perspective.
Video

quote:

ORIGINAL: toxic66

quote:

I simply asked you to validate that statement with facts instead of opinion and offered you several yardsticks to use in that measurement.
So far you have not chosen to do so but rather want to discuss india and greece.
You seem rather long on opinion and short on fact.

All you have offered so far is your opinion as well.


What opinion have I offered?


What have you done to validate or prove your assertions?

What assertions have I made?

At least, I have answered questions and backed my assertions with links to impartial websites that back up what I have said.


Milton freedman is a pimp for capitalism. How is that an impartial anything?


The part about “yardsticks” must be the series of “enlighten us… blah blah blah” Very condescending and it was like reading the instructions for a Doctorial thesis. It even went in to ridiculous things like railway production. What have you done on your end? You haven’t even answered a single question, much less provided links. You argue like a child.


I have only asked you to validate your statements. I have yet to make an arguement


You don’t like the answers so you are not going to answer the questions put to you. Nanny, nanny, boo boo!! Ok, I will be the adult here you want some back up? I have provided links below.

Welcome back herfacechair

Here are some links to information on free markets vs. command economies:
A video to watch

conciseguidetoeconomics.com

This last is a link to a video of Milton Friedman. It only takes about a minute to watch and you might learn something from it. It might cause you to think about things, and give you a different perspective. Open you mind to other ideas and possibilities. Challenge yourself and watch it. Expand your perspective.
Video

I love a good spirited debate. I am passionate about my beliefs but try and keep an open mind. I try and listen to the other side so that I can learn some things from them too, even if I don't agree with them. I don't seem to be getting that with this exchange.


So far you have failed to validate the statement in question.
You said:

quote:

:

government controlled markets have a long history of failure. Look at North Korea vs South Korea, East Germany vs West Germany (back when they were split), or the USSR.

I simply asked you to validate that statement with facts instead of opinion and offered you several yardsticks to use in that measurement.
So far you have not chosen to do so but rather want to discuss india and greece.
You seem rather long on opinion and short on fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

India has a very high rate of educated English speaking workers....

that I cannot understand.

It's a former British colony, old boy. Hence there's a bit of an emphasis on British style education and speaking the Queen's English. For some reason that sort of thing's more widespread in the commonwealth countries than other former colonial possessions.

Not just that; for most of the years after Independence, India was run by Socialists, who made universal education a priority; while it is still poor in many ways, India is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, a nuclear power, and gaining the technological edge by importing the jobs from America. Many or most of the world's leading scientists and computer engineers are from India.

Next time you are on the helpline cussing out Apu in New Delhi, remember to be nice to him; you may be shining his shoes soon.

quote:

I simply asked you to validate that statement with facts instead of opinion and offered you several yardsticks to use in that measurement.
So far you have not chosen to do so but rather want to discuss india and greece.
You seem rather long on opinion and short on fact.

quote:

Vast differences between the former East Germany and West Germany (for example, in lifestyle, wealth, political beliefs and other matters) remain, and it is therefore still common to speak of eastern and western Germany distinctly. The eastern German economy has struggled since unification, and large subsidies are still transferred from west to east. The former East Germany area has often been compared to the underdeveloped Southern Italy and the Southern United States during Reconstruction after the American Civil War. While the East German economy has recovered recently, the differences between East and West remain constant.

quote:


GDP $26.2 billion (2008 est.)(US State Department)[1]/$40 billion[2]
GDP growth 3.7%[3]
GDP per capita $1,900 (2009 est.)[2]


As of 2007, North Korea's economy remained one of the world's most highly centralized and planned, even by pre-1990 communist standards. Complete "socialization" of the economy was accomplished by 1958, when private ownership of the means of production, land, and commercial enterprises was replaced by state or cooperative (collective) ownership and control. As a result, industrial firms were either state-owned or cooperatives, the former contributing more than 90% of total industrial output in the 1960s.

As a consequence of the government's policy of establishing economic self-sufficiency, the North Korean economy has become increasingly isolated from that of the rest of the world, and its industrial development and structure do not reflect its international competitiveness. Domestic firms are shielded from international as well as domestic competition; the result is chronic inefficiency, poor quality, limited product diversity, and underutilization of plants. This protectionism also limits the size of the market for North Korean producers, which prevents taking advantage of economies of scale.

quote:


GDP 2009 estimate
GDP - Total $1.364 trillion[3]
GDP - Per capita $27,978[3]

South Korea has a market economy which ranks 15th in the world by nominal GDP and 12th by purchasing power parity (PPP). It is a high-income developed country, with an emerging economy, and is a member of OECD. It is considered to be one of the "Asian Tigers". South Korea had one of the world's fastest growing economies from the early 1960s to the late 1990s. South Koreans refer to this growth as the Miracle on the Han River. The South Korean economy is heavily dependent on international trade, and in 2009, South Korea was the ninth largest exporter and tenth largest importer in the world.

quote:

Overall, between 1960 and 1989, the growth rate of per capita income in the Soviet Union was slightly above world average (based on 102 countries). However, given the very high level of investment in physical capital, high percentage of people with a secondary education, and low population growth the Soviet economy should have grown much faster. According to Stanley Fischer and William Easterly the Soviet growth record was among "the worst in the world". By their calculation per capita income of Soviet Union in 1989 should have been twice as high as it was, if investment, education and population had their typical effect on growth. The authors attribute this poor performance to low productivity of capital in the Soviet Union

quote:

government controlled markets have a long history of failure. Look at North Korea vs South Korea, East Germany vs West Germany (back when they were split), or the USSR.