E3
Posts: 47
Joined: 4/10/2005
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I'll be boo'd off the forums at LEAST, for this topic I am sure.
I've learned people will happily sit around forever talking about what isn't working, but no one likes to talk about certain taboo topics.
And the concepts of communism and socialism, are both taught to all north americans WRONG, but also taught to make it one of the greatest taboos in our society.
SO only read the following if you want to see things in a new light, are open minded enough to NOT hate a thing simply becuase you were taught to, and are willing to have a mature debate.
And yes, I do expect hate filled responses and mail for this. I AM a communist after all. And balls bigger than brains.
Communism and Socialism are NOT the same thing!
Communism is a government modle, socialism is an economic one.
No country in the world has EVER implimented either ideal in a proper, "as proposed" method. The now failed Soviet regime was one bastardization of it, Cuba was another, China yet another. Though at least China and Cuba have endured in one form or another.
Socialism works apon the premis of a controled economy. But not one controled by corporations but rather, one that is controled to be fair to all persons. Often, this will require government control, but socialism is about the concept of "yes all money goes into a communal pot. There is a share waiting for me. If I do my share of the work." Socialism being all "free welfare for all!" is FALSE. If you work to benefit society, you will benefit from society. If you do nothing, in an ideal socialist society, there will be agencies (government run) to help find you a way to be a benefit to society. The concept that socialism is the end of money is wrong. That extreem ideal is impossible, as all work requires a value assigned to it, and all products a result of the work. Money can never cease to exist in some form. But rampantly rising prices so business executives and politicians can own their yachts, while people in their country live in roach infested, sub standard housing even thought they work 60 hours a week in minimum wage jobs. Socialism, in its TRUEST form, is a voluntary sharing of wealth evenly among all who work for the benefit of society. It is, in essence, the opposite of present capitalism, where the core ideal seems to be "get as much for me as I can."
Communism now, is the government system. Most people equate communism with propeganda, work camps, fat cats lording over peasants, squashing of civil rights, etcettera. To be perfectly honest, this is how communism has been practiced in the past. But democratic societies can be misused. Look at central and south america. The amount of dictators voted into power who then turn their countries into civil rights lacking nightmares. So to has communism been mis-implimented. The Soviet regime was obsessed with maintaining its super power status and remaining on power with money rich America. Cubas regime failed becuase even though Education and Healthcare have remained the top two items on its budget every year (at least durring Fidels rule), well, 100% of 100 dollars, is still less than 1% of a million dollars, as an example. Cuba is by default poor, and no matter the percent they put into those things, they still dont have it to put in. China has been the most sucessful communism, and it has done so through constant evolution. But still, it has had to deal with periods without incomming money, no imported goods, surviving only on what it can generate internally.
A communist government is NOT Big Brother. People often equate the two. Honestly, Facism is more likely to be a big brother than communism, more faceless. A communist government will have a face, and you will see it often. A government that would own the power companies, the water companies, own all the properties. Why? So it can set uniform, attainable prices for living. Yes it will know how much you make, and it will set prices affordable to you in these things. So yes, the government itself would be more expansive, and the economy would be highly restricted. But it would be controlled. Stabalized.
Now yes, people will refute with arguements "but Russia had massive breadlines where prices were through the roof." My reply is three fold. One, as stated, it was a mis-managed communist state. The government was not giving out the money equeal to what it was taking in, so the costs were going up, but the money in your pocket was not. and Two, econmic and import sanctions against Russia made obtaining goods difficult. Given the out dated system of transport in most of the country durring the Soviet regime, the areas producing food products, had difficulty transporting them to areas requiring them most. And three, the Soviet regime spent more money on military, to try and keep on par with teh USA than it did on its own people. This was NOT a communist ideal. This was their greatest mistake. Had they instead spent hte money on internal development, they likely could have, in time, reached an economy that would surpass that of the USA. But the Cold War era was an era where people believed you needed numbers and equipment now. You needed bigger bombs. They were blind to the need for infrastructure to make a functioning economy first.
Another possible refute will be "look at Cuba and how poor it is. how can communism work if its left that country so poor?" Well, take a small island, with no natural resources except tourism. Have your largest wealthy neighbour tell its people they arent allowed to visit your small island state, thus robbing you of the tourism industry. Where are you going to get money? For money to exist in that economy, money needs to be put into it.
And what of China, devoid of civil rights? Yep another case of mis-implimented Communism. Communism isnt about the stamping out of civil rights. YES you lose the right to exploit others for money, which you do presently have in the USA. Yes you lose the right to horde vast wealth while your neighbours live in squalor. Yes you lose the right to mark the price of a product for 500% of what it cost to make just to pay a bunch of often unneeded executives who despite spending most of the business day in a restaraunt, live a world apart from their employees.
The arguement of "but a doctor should not make the same wages as a store clerk! and communism pays teh same to all." And I would agree. a socialist economy doesnt set one blanket wage for all work. It is not to say some jobs are more important than others, but some jobs, like doctors, require more education, more investment of ones self, and are, yes, more vital for society. So their earned share would be larger than a store clerks. But the Store clerks 10 dollars an hour (present minimum wage here in canada) vurses the doctors couple of hundred thousand a year... would be balanced out more.
SO we get into.. why are communism and socialism hated so much?
Can you be told you arent allowed to amass as much wealth as possible, that you cannot horde wealth while others remain in poverty, and that once wealthy, you are not allowed to then "do nothing"?
Can you honestly be told that greed is no longer allowed, for the good of society?
Can you be told that society must come before the individual?
Neither can the wealthy. And money controls our world. So money controls what we learn. And we are taught to hate it. Communism isnt hte opposite of freedom. There CAN be democracy within communism. Even the Soviet Union had democratic elections.
So. why do YOU hate communism and socialism? What are your reasons?
Communism and socialism are not the devils people have been taught to beleive they are. They are as corruptable, prehaps less so if properly implimented, than capitalism.
So debate. Spam hate. I only ask two things. Keep your "society programed propeganda" out of this thread. And DO try and be civil and respectful. Not seeing that one happen often on this forum though. A sad fact.
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Communism and Socialism.. the devil? - 
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