RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants

RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 6:15:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Nearly 8,000 post in about three years and you call that posting "tentatively". Nearly 8,000 post in about three years and you call posting your position "repeatedly" to mean that you posted this opinion a couple of months ago I have been posting that opinion for a long time. Again, you read only what you wish to read. It appears from your own cites that for you a "long time" is a couple of months[8\|] Btw, 8000 posts over a time period when i had two surgeries that kept me out of work for months... lol... i call that light posting. And please, you act like this is the only section on CM boards. some of us do post in other areas. quote: My arguement against your post is that it is brand new not old and repeated as you would try to have us believe. And yet you cannot argue the point that they are getting jobs illegally, which invalidates your consistent argument that they are only committing a misdemeanor. My consistant argument has been that crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor...yet you wish that statement to mean something else...don't look now but your bigoted xenophobia is showing. quote: If they are working "under the table" and paying their taxes then they are not evading their taxes as you allege. You do enjoy your fantasy world, dont you. You keep insisting these people exist. I have not insisted that "these people" exist. I point out that all one need do to avoid the charge of tax evasion is to pay their taxes. That is a pretty simple concept that somehow has eluded you.

Aylee -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 8:32:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee I am boggled. Look, I know that Americans want to make life better for people. It is part of the soul of our country. If we see a wrong, we desire to right it. Don't you mean if we see a resource we steal it? We may not be the policemen of the world, but we act like it because it would wound us too much to do otherwise. Don't you mean we would have to pay for it if our "policeman" did not insure that we could steal said resource? It is not our job to save every person of every other country. However, the question remains, can we live with ourselves if we do not try. Don't you mean can our corporatocracy live without the resources of other countries? The problem has arisen because there are some that do not desire to join into this understanding. Instead of trying to right the wrongs in their own country, and requesting help, they have chosen to disregard their own country and ours. Don't you mean that part of someone else's country that we took at the point of a gun? Personal gain has triumphed over a desire for world or even home country gain. There is a lack of loyalty to anything but the "self." I take it here that you are talking about yourself and the corporatocracy to which you seem to owe some allegiance. It is unfortunate and sad. Your position certainly is At the end of the day, they are doing wrong. They know this. It is harming everyone involved. Illegal immigrants need to go back to their home country and affect change there, if they want something better for their children. Do you feel the same way about amerikans who are illegaly in other countries? Thompson, you and I cannot have a discussion. You see people, especially Americans, as inherently evil. I do not. This means that we have no common ground from which to start. I wish you well. You might try not ascribing every act to malice.

tazzygirl -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 8:39:25 AM)
As i pointed out that FICA is a tax required by all citizens to pay, which is not payable on an Income tax form. Those using an ITIN may be exempt from paying FICA if they, for example, are working on campus (college students). Again, you may want to look up the information for yourself. quote: It appears from your own cites that for you a "long time" is a couple of months Repeatedly...you may want to look up that definition. repeatedly has no time requirement. Nor is CM the only place that has political boards, and its definitely not the only place i post too. I have pointed out that the law they break when they work in this country without proper identification, is a federal crime. Stealing someone elses ID and using that to get a job is not proper identification. An ITIN is not proper ID to obtain a job with. And, just to save you some time.... http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf The list of required and acceptable documentation to prove someone's eligibility to work in this country. Using anyone elses, regardless of what form is presented, is a federal crime. Take special note of page 4, just above the spot for employee signature.

cadenas -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 8:58:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl As i pointed out that FICA is a tax required by all citizens to pay, which is not payable on an Income tax form. Those using an ITIN may be exempt from paying FICA if they, for example, are working on campus (college students). Again, you may want to look up the information for yourself. A couple things: - FICA taxes ARE reported on form 1040, as well as on W-2s. - An ITIN does not exempt you from FICA taxes, where did you get that nonsense? - Students working on campus would have an SSN, not an ITIN. I believe they are indeed exempt from FICA taxes, but it has nothing to do with the ITIN. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have pointed out that the law they break when they work in this country without proper identification, is a federal crime. Stealing someone elses ID and using that to get a job is not proper identification. An ITIN is not proper ID to obtain a job with. You are mixing two separate concepts here. Working without the proper I-9 documentation is a violation on the employer's part. The employee can't be responsible - otherwise, US citizens could be arrested when their employer doesn't keep the proper paperwork! quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And, just to save you some time.... http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf The list of required and acceptable documentation to prove someone's eligibility to work in this country. Using anyone elses, regardless of what form is presented, is a federal crime. Please note that it explicitly says right on the first page "Providing the Social Security Number is voluntary". The SSN or ITIN is only required for tax purposes.

thompsonx -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 10:01:24 AM)
quote: Thompson, you and I cannot have a discussion. You see people, especially Americans, as inherently evil. I do not. This means that we have no common ground from which to start. I wish you well. You might try not ascribing every act to malice. I have never sugested that americans or anyone else are inherently evil. I have, on numerous occasions pointed out how unscrupulous politicians have used the american military to further their own ambitions of agrandisement. It is a matter of historical fact not conjecture on my part.

tazzygirl -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 10:03:39 AM)
Please note the section related to the employee signature. "I am aware that federal law provides for imprisonment and/or fines for false statements or use of false documents in connection with the completion of this form". Beneath that, an employee signature is required. Pretty self explanatory there. Again, page 4. http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf Regarding FICA taxes... Are NRAs automatically exempt from FICA and Disability taxes? No. Your visa type determines what taxes you must pay: VISA TYPES FICA DISABILITY F-1 Exempt for the first 5 years from date of entry; thereafter may be exempt based on student enrollment. Exemption based on enrollment status. J-1 Students Exempt for the first 5 years from date of entry; thereafter may be exempt based on student enrollment. Exemption based on enrollment status. J-1 Scholars, Researchers Exempt for either the first 2 calendar years in the US, or 2 out of the first 6 calendar years in the US regardless of visa status Must pay Disability. H-1B, O-1 Must pay FICA. Must pay Disability. J-2, H-2 Must pay FICA. http://ais-ss.usc.edu/empldoc/faq/faq4.html#6 Am I exempt from FICA tax withholding? A student employed by the University is exempt from FICA if he or she is: • Enrolled in the University on at least a half-time basis, and • Not in a career employee position. A nonresident alien employee is exempt from FICA tax if he or she is: • Present in the U.S. under an F-1, J-1, M-1 or Q-1 visa, and • Performing services in accordance with the primary purpose of the visa’s issuance. In connection with these two FICA tax exemptions, please note that: • An individual can qualify for both. Thus, a nonresident alien student who is later reclassified as a resident alien will no longer qualify for the FICA tax exemption under the nonresident alien FICA tax exemption, but may qualify under the student employee exemption. • The spouse and dependents of the primary visa holder (i.e., F-2, J-2, or M-2, or Q-2 visa holders) are not eligible for the nonresident alien FICA tax exemption. http://www.ucop.edu/ucophome/cao/paycoord/w8ben.pdf Some actually are exempt.

thompsonx -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 10:08:11 AM)
Did cadenas miss anything you wanted me to respond to?

tazzygirl -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 10:26:28 AM)
LOL.. hardly!

thompsonx -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 12:08:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl LOL.. hardly! So you accept that your statement that all illegal aliens working in the u.s. are guilty of either identity theft or tax evasion is incorrect?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 12:38:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream The Europeans showed up here and harmed all the good indigenous folks living here. Ruined their culture, lied, stole, raped, pillaged. An example of the revisionist liberal history thats spewed in schools today. The Native Americans didmore than their fair of raping and pillaging. You might want to look at the history of the world and how territory has always been gained.

Marini -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 1:00:58 PM)
quote: Thompson, you and I cannot have a discussion. You see people, especially Americans, as inherently evil. I do not. This means that we have no common ground from which to start. I wish you well. You might try not ascribing every act to malice. Great point, Aylee! Thompson may NOT actually feel that way, but he often comes across that way. American citizens have a right to have opinions about their country, that may be very different than your opinions. Constant name calling, put downs, insults, a nasty/and or malicious attitude, etc. when others DARE to think differently than you, only puts you in a place where it is almost impossible to have a "rational" conversation or debate with you.

Aylee -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 1:26:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream The Europeans showed up here and harmed all the good indigenous folks living here. Ruined their culture, lied, stole, raped, pillaged. An example of the revisionist liberal history thats spewed in schools today. The Native Americans didmore than their fair of raping and pillaging. You might want to look at the history of the world and how territory has always been gained. Why does this remind me of The Life of Brian? Reg: But apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? PFJ Member: Brought peace? Reg: Frustrated Oh god, peace, SHUT UP!

Marini -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 1:27:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini We have a case that is in the news, should be national news also. An illegal immigrant driving drunk just killed a nun, a few days ago. Big news here, front and center. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hjV7tMqpB_uIG8ZX0BhOK1JWVwIAD9HC9S380 I was able to go about my business today, without the police asking me for an ID! I only saw one comment about the nun killed in the car accident. Her funeral was today. RIP Sister

Aylee -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 1:36:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: Thompson, you and I cannot have a discussion. You see people, especially Americans, as inherently evil. I do not. This means that we have no common ground from which to start. I wish you well. You might try not ascribing every act to malice. Great point, Aylee! Thompson may NOT actually feel that way, but he often comes across that way. American citizens have a right to have opinions about their country, that may be very different than your opinions. Constant name calling, put downs, insults, a nasty/and or malicious attitude, etc. when others DARE to think differently than you, only puts you in a place where it is almost impossible to have a "rational" conversation or debate with you. I believe, by and large, that most people want the same thing. Peace on Earth, goodwill towards men, our children/next generation to have a better life than we do. The conflict comes because we do not all agree on how to get there. I may think that doing A, B, and C is the best way to acomplish this and you may believe that D, E, and F are the best way. This does not make you evil, the devil, or anything else. It just means that we do not agree on the steps that should be taken. Constantly demonizing others who see another path as the better path, just makes one look like a kook. I believe that this polarization of US versus THEM is a bigger threat to the USA than bad policy or bad law.

Marini -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 1:59:40 PM)
quote: I believe, by and large, that most people want the same thing. Peace on Earth, goodwill towards men, our children/next generation to have a better life than we do. The conflict comes because we do not all agree on how to get there. I may think that doing A, B, and C is the best way to acomplish this and you may believe that D, E, and F are the best way. This does not make you evil, the devil, or anything else. It just means that we do not agree on the steps that should be taken. Constantly demonizing others who see another path as the better path, just makes one look like a kook. I believe that this polarization of US versus THEM is a bigger threat to the USA than bad policy or bad law. Again, you are right on the mark. I make every attempt to not engage those that enjoy frequent "attacking behaviors" or are unable to chat without insults, malicious name calling, personal attacks, etc. I will say that the atmosphere down here in politics/religion has been very pleasant lately, with many wonderful discussions going! [:)]

truckinslave -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 4:45:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: joether Since 'illegal immigration' isn't about someone breaking laws. It is ILLEGAL. That means "breaking the law." ILLEGAL. You even used the word yourself. It boggles the mind,doesnt it? You want mind-boggling. I once heard the perky KC herself say: "illegal aliens and other citizens". Went uncorrected and unremarked.

AnimusRex -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 7:50:40 PM)
Not interested in wading into the debate over ITIN and SS numbers... I actually know and am good friends with several illegal alien families. The ones I know work insanely hard, for starvation wages, doing shit no one on these boards would ever deign do. After working 12 hours a day, under miserable conditions, having the boss dock their pay for taking lunch, having to make a 3 hour bus ride to and from their house, as these people then are told that they are somehow a terrible threat to America. We are supposed to belive that working illegally with fictitious paperwork is bringing the American economy to its knees, that being able to get treated at the ER for a workplace injury is a benefit that is breaking the back of the American worker. Meanwhile, the titans of industry who work on Wall Street are paid by the American taxpayer more in a single bonus than the average illegal makes in a lifetime, and yet we are told this is right and just, that we should be grateful to these parasitic fucks that they don't "go Galt" on us. We are indignantly lectured about "what illegal" means, told that breaking immigration laws is a crime, yet Kellog Brown Root was proven to have killed several American soldiers with shoddy wiring at military bases, and yet we collectively shrug and the guilty parties are given a wink and a nod to not even a fine. We hear hysterical accounts of illegal aliens getting in traffic accidents, that these people are a menace to society, yet BP deliberately cut corners on its oil well and 8 men died, yet no one will ever pay more than a tiny fine for the manslaughter. We are told that these people "jumped the line" that they are cutting corners, and that everything would be fine if they only followed the rules. Yet we conveniently ignore the fact that the rules are deliberately set up so that only a tiny trickle of people are given visas. If the supply matched the demand, there would be no illegals. Somehow everyone always finds a reason why we shouldn't increase the number of visas from Mexico, but hastily assures us that it has nothing to do with a dislike of Mexicans. Honestly, I think the illegals are behaving exactly as my own ancestors did a century ago when they came to America. I can think of plenty of people who should have their citizenship stripped and deported but none of them are of Mexican ancestry. They died in the hundreds, with no sign to mark where;save the brass in the pocket of the entreprenuer;The supply of an Empire where the sun never sets;which is now deep in darkness but the railways there yet. Check out the picture- drawn a century ago, it could have been made yesterday in downtown Los Angeles. [image]local://upfiles/280232/B18EC62CC82540929DBDEB26F7DE607C.jpg[/image]

tazzygirl -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 10:00:19 PM)
The very fact that they are breaking the law leaves them wide open to the exploitation you mentioned. If they get hurt, who pays the bill? Certainly not the workmans comp group... and often not the employer. Was not until recently (meaning maybe the last ten years) that illegals could sue in certain states for back pay or being underpaid. I have said this before, and i will say it again... i am all for a pathway to citizenship... i just dont believe in amnesty.

tazzygirl -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 10:01:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl LOL.. hardly! So you accept that your statement that all illegal aliens working in the u.s. are guilty of either identity theft or tax evasion is incorrect? All illegal aliens? Nope, i do not accept my statement as being incorrect. You figure out why.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants (8/6/2010 10:06:05 PM)
Why is this going to be MORE interesting than the situation in Arizona? The law in Arizona requires law-enforcement officers to stop anyone whom they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. This doesn't go nearly as far. quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Well, Virginia is front and center in the news right now. This one could become even more interesting than the situation in Arizona. Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has issued a ruling on a Virginia state law that allows police officers to check the immigration status of individuals stopped or arrested. Things are going to start getting real interesting in the state that is for lovers, real soon.

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