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RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 9:42:14 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
We have to tell people that?  LOL.  It's a sad day when we have to tell people to have manners.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. As a (more or less) newcomer to this whole thing myself I remember being pretty baffled by the various derogatory terms that seemed to be tossed about rather casually. When you're a stranger in a strange land, you make mistakes and in this case those mistakes are fostered by the strange land itself.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 9:53:30 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Courtesy is free.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 10:02:59 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. As a (more or less) newcomer to this whole thing myself I remember being pretty baffled by the various derogatory terms that seemed to be tossed about rather casually. When you're a stranger in a strange land, you make mistakes and in this case those mistakes are fostered by the strange land itself.

It might be fostered by chatroom fantasy BS, not the actual environment itself.  The whole thing reeks of lack of practical experience.  If you wouldn't walk into your local Starbucks and order your coffee addressing someone as "girl" or some other diminutive, you shouldn't expect it to fly with a submissive that you are sending an email. 

Ignorance, in My opinion, of a culture is not an excuse.  Not when there is more than enough opportunity for a person to become educated in the matter, or when it directly conflicts with what is acceptable in any other social situation.  The sadist in Me would just love to have folks walk into a munch for the first time and attempt to pull even half the crap that they do on the internet.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 10:08:22 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. As a (more or less) newcomer to this whole thing myself I remember being pretty baffled by the various derogatory terms that seemed to be tossed about rather casually. When you're a stranger in a strange land, you make mistakes and in this case those mistakes are fostered by the strange land itself.


It might be fostered by chatroom fantasy BS, not the actual environment itself.  The whole thing reeks of lack of practical experience.  If you wouldn't walk into your local Starbucks and order your coffee addressing someone as "girl" or some other diminutive, you shouldn't expect it to fly with a submissive that you are sending an email. 

Ignorance, in My opinion, of a culture is not an excuse.  Not when there is more than enough opportunity for a person to become educated in the matter, or when it directly conflicts with what is acceptable in any other social situation.  The sadist in Me would just love to have folks walk into a munch for the first time and attempt to pull even half the crap that they do on the internet.



I agree and this is pseudo fantastical nonsense. I have never met a man that addressed an adult woman as "girl" that he had no familiarity with. As LadyPact stated you shouldn't have to tell someone that they're being an idiot. The mere fact he uses his 'dominance' as an excuse to be ill tempered and behaved is pretty pathetic in my opinion.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 10:42:31 AM   
Bobanna


Posts: 95
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline 		[/quote]

I agree and this is pseudo fantastical nonsense. I have never met a man that addressed an adult woman as "girl" that he had no familiarity with. As LadyPact stated you shouldn't have to tell someone that they're being an idiot. The mere fact he uses his 'dominance' as an excuse to be ill tempered and behaved is pretty pathetic in my opinion.

~porcelaine

[/quote]


I dont think a dominant man has an excuse to be an idiot ... dominant man/idiot in the same sentence seems to be an oxymoron.
When someone addresses me as girl, slut, whore or whatever de rogatory name comes from them without knowing me in a first mail, I have no doubt they are in no way shape or form dominant at all !!  The traits I find that are almost consistent with dominance is ---> common sense and logic.  When someone doesnt exercise common sense to know what to positively write to a stranger that he is trying to impress or  make a connection with,  then I would not consider him my better and definately not a dominant.  In fact. by not using common sense or logic --> it would make him submissive to me, and thus worthless to what I'm seeking ... to be blocked and thrown in the rubbish heap.

Bo

< Message edited by Bobanna -- 8/5/2010 10:43:50 AM >

_____________________________

Let them eat cake ~ !

A dream for some ... A nightmare for others

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 10:50:23 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
It might be fostered by chatroom fantasy BS, not the actual environment itself.

Probably so. But the plain fact is that this is not the "good ol' days". I didn't walk to school 15 miles in the snow when I found this stuff. I found it on the internet.... and yes, it was pretty fucked up. It took me a while to disentangle it all in my head.

quote:

Ignorance, in My opinion, of a culture is not an excuse.

Really? I sure am glad that all the people I worked with in my global corporation didn't think that way because I strongly suspect we stepped on each other's cultural taboos fairly regularly. I hold things like tolerance and forgiveness in high value. I also agree with Miss Manners that the core of courtesy is making others feel welcome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobanna
I dont think a dominant man has an excuse to be an idiot

See comments to LP above. When you look at the OP on this thread, are you REALLY seeing "idiot"? If so, then you are way the hell more judgmental than me. Do remind me though to get a bug up my butt the next time some random sub somewhere calls me "sir". I do truly hate that. I feel that it makes an imposition on me that I don't want to deliver on. But I simply acknowledge that there are lots of different standards and groups and I need to be a bit tolerant of the "idiot" subs who call me "sir".

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 10:51:55 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I have successfully opened many a bottle of guinness with a girl.  It can be done.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 10:55:24 AM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I have successfully opened many a bottle of guinness with a girl.  It can be done.

Without spilling a drop? Impressive

_____________________________

When the path ignites a soul, there’s no remaining in place.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 11:07:27 AM   
Bobanna


Posts: 95
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
It might be fostered by chatroom fantasy BS, not the actual environment itself.

Probably so. But the plain fact is that this is not the "good ol' days". I didn't walk to school 15 miles in the snow when I found this stuff. I found it on the internet.... and yes, it was pretty fucked up. It took me a while to disentangle it all in my head.

quote:

Ignorance, in My opinion, of a culture is not an excuse.

Really? I sure am glad that all the people I worked with in my global corporation didn't think that way because I strongly suspect we stepped on each other's cultural taboos fairly regularly. I hold things like tolerance and forgiveness in high value. I also agree with Miss Manners that the core of courtesy is making others feel welcome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobanna
I dont think a dominant man has an excuse to be an idiot

See comments to LP above. When you look at the OP on this thread, are you REALLY seeing "idiot"? If so, then you are way the hell more judgmental than me. Do remind me though to get a bug up my butt the next time some random sub somewhere calls me "sir". I do truly hate that. I feel that it makes an imposition on me that I don't want to deliver on. But I simply acknowledge that there are lots of different standards and groups and I need to be a bit tolerant of the "idiot" subs who call me "sir".


I might always want to keep it under close consideration .. because it might be that IDIOT (not the OP ... just someone in general that lacks enough common sense on how to approach someone decently)   that has me tied up and is on the other side of the whip.  Just sayin.

< Message edited by Bobanna -- 8/5/2010 11:36:44 AM >

_____________________________

Let them eat cake ~ !

A dream for some ... A nightmare for others

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 11:20:53 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: poise

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I have successfully opened many a bottle of guinness with a girl.  It can be done.

Without spilling a drop? Impressive


Nope, they mostly projectile squirt upon hearing that popping sound.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to poise)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 11:38:19 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Cripes
You girls got your panties in knots





_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 11:55:00 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobanna

I dont think a dominant man has an excuse to be an idiot ... dominant man/idiot in the same sentence seems to be an oxymoron.


Bo,

I disagree. Just because someone is in a position of authority doesn't lessen his possession of negative attributes. In this instance the individual uses the role as a kind of entitlement to behave boorishly.

quote:

When someone doesnt exercise common sense to know what to positively write to a stranger that he is trying to impress or  make a connection with


While I don't converse with dominant men in that fashion, I believe it's important to display decorum and courtesy as a reflection of my personal standard of communication. Given the fact that experiences, education, and preferences differ, variances in application will occur. Unfortunately, the behavior discussed is acceptable to some and their willingness to entertain it allows the idea to flourish in this realm.


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

See comments to LP above. When you look at the OP on this thread, are you REALLY seeing "idiot"? If so, then you are way the hell more judgmental than me. Do remind me though to get a bug up my butt the next time some random sub somewhere calls me "sir". I do truly hate that. I feel that it makes an imposition on me that I don't want to deliver on. But I simply acknowledge that there are lots of different standards and groups and I need to be a bit tolerant of the "idiot" subs who call me "sir".


Jeff,

In my opinion submissives should address the dominant in their initial conversation by the screen name and inquire if they have specific preferences when communicating with prospects. I have never believed one should assume that honorifics or other terms should be freely applied without the individual's input. A simple Greetings followed by the name is more than sufficient.

I make a noted exception when I converse with persons I'm familiar with, those that have a leather orientation, or as an indication of respect. Although the tone remains formal (as is my preference) our discussions are courteous with an element of mutual respect that is never cast aside.

I don't believe one must utter Sir or Ma'am to convey this in their speech or written correspondence. It is quite evident in the individual's mindset and countenance. My comments are in reference to those presently unattached.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Bobanna)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 3:03:50 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: macs

I would just like to appologise to all the Ladies I have called girl I did not mean any disrespect. I simply thought it was better that some of the name you call yourslves eg slutwhore ect.


FR

The name I calll myself is "sunshine".  Feel free to use it.
good luck,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to macs)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 4:02:27 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
It might be fostered by chatroom fantasy BS, not the actual environment itself.

Probably so. But the plain fact is that this is not the "good ol' days". I didn't walk to school 15 miles in the snow when I found this stuff. I found it on the internet.... and yes, it was pretty fucked up. It took me a while to disentangle it all in my head.

So, what are we saying here?  That it's too difficult to attend a munch or <gasp> read a book?  By your own admission, the stuff you found on the internet was fucked up.  Maybe the old approach isn't such a bad one.

quote:

quote:

Ignorance, in My opinion, of a culture is not an excuse.

Really? I sure am glad that all the people I worked with in my global corporation didn't think that way because I strongly suspect we stepped on each other's cultural taboos fairly regularly. I hold things like tolerance and forgiveness in high value. I also agree with Miss Manners that the core of courtesy is making others feel welcome.

This OP is neither more nor less welcome on this site by any comment that I've made here.  There's no way you're going to convince Me that in the "global corporation" that you worked for that it was appropriate to call anybody that you weren't on some friendship level "girl" or any other term that's been used on this thread.  You know as well as I do that if you did, it would have painted you in a bad light and may very well have gotten you a free visit to HR.  Tolerance and forgiveness is one thing.  Putting up with bad manners is completely another.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobanna
I dont think a dominant man has an excuse to be an idiot

See comments to LP above. When you look at the OP on this thread, are you REALLY seeing "idiot"? If so, then you are way the hell more judgmental than me. Do remind me though to get a bug up my butt the next time some random sub somewhere calls me "sir". I do truly hate that. I feel that it makes an imposition on me that I don't want to deliver on. But I simply acknowledge that there are lots of different standards and groups and I need to be a bit tolerant of the "idiot" subs who call me "sir".

Not addressed to Me, but I'll throw My two cents in anyway.

If this annoys you, why aren't you correcting it?  There aren't that many keystrokes involve in "unless your Master has instructed you to call all male Dominants by 'Sir', I would prefer you didn't".  This is very much the same method that I use each an every time I get one of those lovely emails that starts with the greeting "Dear Mistress".  I absolutely do reply stating that I am not their Mistress and it is improper protocol to imply a dynamic that does not exist by using the title without a qualifying name.  That reply takes Me less than two minutes before I hit the block button.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 4:17:46 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

FR

The name I calll myself is "sunshine".  Feel free to use it.
good luck,
sunshine

See, I really struggle with this. In English English 'sunshine' is a name people use when they are trying to be simultaneously aggressive and patronising-it's very sarcastic.

I don't feel like I know you well enough to call you sunny, so I tend to avoid calling you anything at all as a result.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 5:50:14 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		*laughs*

VC... I had an employee at work from another country. Now, I try hard to be global in my mindset and I make a point of adapting to other cultures where I can. But this person's chosen nickname (apparently common in this country) was "boy". I never, ever got comfortable with referring to my employee as "boy".

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 5:53:16 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Well LP, my point here was that BDSM-land IS a different culture than vanilla-land. Different rules DO apply. Getting tangled up in them when you're new is perfectly understandable.

For my own self, I did not make this particular faux-pas when I was new, but I made plenty of other ones as I'm sure you remember *laughs*.

Had the OP read differently I would've responded differently. But it seemed to me to be a fairly straight-forward acknowledgement of a social faux-pas and apology.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 7:50:56 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Cripes
You girls got your panties in knots






LOL!

Yeah I would guess that addressing random women as "girl" is rude. I would also guess that kicking someone that is sincerely apologizing for making a mistake is likely more rude....unless there's someone here that thinks they don't also make mistakes....

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 8/5/2010 7:51:44 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/5/2010 8:02:19 PM   
Bobanna


Posts: 95
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:


LOL!

Yeah I would guess that addressing random women as "girl" is rude. I would also guess that kicking someone that is sincerely apologizing for making a mistake is likely more rude....unless there's someone here that thinks they don't also make mistakes....


I am in full accordance and want to give the OP a big "Well Done" ... yay !!!

~Bo

_____________________________

Let them eat cake ~ !

A dream for some ... A nightmare for others

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Don't use girl has an opener - 8/6/2010 1:28:06 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

FR

The name I calll myself is "sunshine".  Feel free to use it.
good luck,
sunshine

See, I really struggle with this. In English English 'sunshine' is a name people use when they are trying to be simultaneously aggressive and patronising-it's very sarcastic.

I don't feel like I know you well enough to call you sunny, so I tend to avoid calling you anything at all as a result.



Oh sure, we use that too - Well aren't you just a ball of sunshine today? - but obviously that's not it.  Feel free to use sunshinemiss to keep things simple.   *btw, I've never noticed you didn't call me sunshine.  I appreciate that you don't want to be patronizing and aggressive with me. 

Also, I appreciate the dilemma.  I have a similar one.  I don't really call people "Mr." or "Sir" or "Lady".  So, too, do I not call people their (for me) creepy names.  I may use their initials or half of their name.  I try to honor the choice they've met, but I'm not going to call someone "best cock sucker" no matter how much I may appreciate the post they've made.  If it just doesn't work for me,  I call them some shortened part of their name.  If they don't like it, well, I'm sure I'll still sleep at night. 


best,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 80
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