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Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 4:24:38 PM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeiS7hYbb8c

Interview with Anderson Cooper of CNN.

Groups praying for the atheist to suffer and die.
Groups praying for him to get well.
Groups praying for his soul.

Do not believe tales of death bed conversion, he says.

Mostly "battling" cancer is not battling; it is boring.

Your thoughts?

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 5:27:05 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		Even if there is a comprehensive video record of his last months of life there will still be claims of a death bed conversion. It will be Lady Hope all over again and that is sad.

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 6:36:14 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		When he came out supporting the "clash of civilizations" paradigm he completely lost me. I have never respected another thing that came out of his mouth. He may be an atheist, but he certainly believes Christianity is superior to Islam. The most irritating about his entire adoption of Islam=Evil world view is that Saddam Hussein was actually a secular leader, but he did not let that keep him from spreading propaganda in support of invading Iraq.

How do I feel about Hitchens? He has had years after our invasion of Iraq to try to justify his position... I wonder how many Iraqi children died as a result of our unnecessary invasion... I don't like bad things to happen to anyone, but I save my positive energy for people like kids in war torn zones, not for war mongerers with a hate-on for Islam

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 6:38:29 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Julia

Thank you for reading my mind and posting it.

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 6:44:17 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Julia

Thank you for reading my mind and posting it.


Remember how Faux sold him as being the "sane voice of the left" after 9-11 in the build up to the war in Iraq... it literally broke my heart that they used this douche bag as a propaganda tool against the peace movement... and they did use him as such

Evil fucking bastards

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 7:20:55 PM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		Julia, I do not disagree with your comments about Hitchen's role in the run up to our invasion of Iraq. I regret it as much as you do.

However, I thought this interview while sad was pretty brave and offers us much to contemplate, and so I shared it with the Board. Reality has a way to focus the mind (to borrow a well-known saying) more sharply than all of the hypothetical debate we have on here about Faith and Reason.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 7:39:52 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		Hitchens, along with Alexander Cockburn and Katha Pollit, were the only reasons I read The Nation for as long as I did. I wish him well.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 8:01:58 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Reality has a way to focus the mind (to borrow a well-known saying) more sharply than all of the hypothetical debate we have on here about Faith and Reason.


I became intimately familiar with the frailty of life at a much too young age. We could all drop dead tomorrow without warning,and some of us will...

I do not think that I have an expiration date visible on my carton. I say this as someone who had a father that was not supposed to live a year after he was born, and then the doctors said he would not live until adulthood, and then they said he shouldn't get married because he could die any time.

He had his first his first surgery when my mom was pregnant with their first. He had his second when I was an infant. He died during his third. I was not yet 14. So while he did not live a long life, he lived a lot longer than he was supposed to. This lesson, for me at least, we are all here on borrowed time. None of us gets out alive.

I do not believe there are no atheists in foxholes. I think that is an arrogant thought. One could make the counter argument that when religious people get sick blame god. I am sure some do, but not all...





< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/6/2010 8:03:25 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 8:45:25 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Like I always say, a million years from now who's going to give a shit? Now that is *wicked* TAOIST!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 8/6/2010 8:46:16 PM >

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 8:47:13 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		His right to believe and profess his theory on life and it’s origin is what I fought for in my service to my country. He may be right or he may be wrong…but…he will only know in the end if he is wrong…I will know if I’m right. And if wrong well what difference will it make to me…but to him it could be a nasty surprise.

Butch

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/6/2010 8:59:42 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Julia

Thank you for reading my mind and posting it.


Remember how Faux sold him as being the "sane voice of the left" after 9-11 in the build up to the war in Iraq... it literally broke my heart that they used this douche bag as a propaganda tool against the peace movement... and they did use him as such

Evil fucking bastards

He was also horribly vicious in his own quiet way.

Saw him once debate a fellow who`s name escapes me,a conservative Catholic writer who is gay,where Hitchens goes right for the throat reminding him about his sexuality and burning in hell and being evil in the eye`s of the church,yada yada....

But I guess you sell more books slapping faces than shaking hands.




_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 8:14:21 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

He had his first his first surgery when my mom was pregnant with their first. He had his second when I was an infant. He died during his third. I was not yet 14. So while he did not live a long life, he lived a lot longer than he was supposed to. This lesson, for me at least, we are all here on borrowed time. None of us gets out alive.


Exactly the point Hitchens makes in this interview. But he does not deny the "why me?" moment.

quote:

I do not believe there are no atheists in foxholes. I think that is an arrogant thought. One could make the counter argument that when religious people get sick blame god. I am sure some do, but not all...


Hitchens concedes the possibility of a conversion shout out but speculates it will be only under duress of pain or drugs. Wishful thinking?

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 8:15:51 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

His right to believe and profess his theory on life and it’s origin is what I fought for in my service to my country. He may be right or he may be wrong…but…he will only know in the end if he is wrong…I will know if I’m right. And if wrong well what difference will it make to me…but to him it could be a nasty surprise.

Butch


Sounds a bit like Pascal's Wager

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 9:11:42 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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Status: offline 		I have no idea who Christopher Hitchens is, but I am sorry anyone has to fight the big c.

Thats what I think.

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yep

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 9:44:28 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

His right to believe and profess his theory on life and it’s origin is what I fought for in my service to my country. He may be right or he may be wrong…but…he will only know in the end if he is wrong…I will know if I’m right. And if wrong well what difference will it make to me…but to him it could be a nasty surprise.

Butch


Sounds a bit like Pascal's Wager

It is exactly Pascal's Wager. The wager is the refuge of the person unable or unwilling to consider their beliefs logically.

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 9:50:24 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

He had his first his first surgery when my mom was pregnant with their first. He had his second when I was an infant. He died during his third. I was not yet 14. So while he did not live a long life, he lived a lot longer than he was supposed to. This lesson, for me at least, we are all here on borrowed time. None of us gets out alive.


Exactly the point Hitchens makes in this interview. But he does not deny the "why me?" moment.

quote:

I do not believe there are no atheists in foxholes. I think that is an arrogant thought. One could make the counter argument that when religious people get sick blame god. I am sure some do, but not all...


Hitchens concedes the possibility of a conversion shout out but speculates it will be only under duress of pain or drugs. Wishful thinking?


I listened to his interview, although I seriously would not have taken the time to do so if it had not been for this thread. I find him to be an obnoxious asshole.

I could seriously care less if he makes peace with his "maker" or not. His spiritual life is not important to me. If there is a god that judges actions, it isn't his atheism that is going to get him kicked down to that fiery place, but more likely the cold assed way he threw Iraqis under the bus because he is a bigoted prick. I am sorry, all I can think of when he opens his mouth is "fuck you asshole", but that is just me and I could be wrong

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 10:11:21 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


It is exactly Pascal's Wager. The wager is the refuge of the person unable or unwilling to consider their beliefs logically.


Call it what you will... my statement is an absolute...and either or... the truth in any circumstance of interpretation... as scientific as it can get... beliefs have nothing to do with it... only cold hard logic… one state of reality or the other.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 10:24:43 AM   
dcnovice


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Pascal's wager has always depressed me. I see faith as a relationship, not a cost-benefit analysis.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 10:38:09 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

He had his first his first surgery when my mom was pregnant with their first. He had his second when I was an infant. He died during his third. I was not yet 14. So while he did not live a long life, he lived a lot longer than he was supposed to. This lesson, for me at least, we are all here on borrowed time. None of us gets out alive.


Exactly the point Hitchens makes in this interview. But he does not deny the "why me?" moment.

quote:

I do not believe there are no atheists in foxholes. I think that is an arrogant thought. One could make the counter argument that when religious people get sick blame god. I am sure some do, but not all...


Hitchens concedes the possibility of a conversion shout out but speculates it will be only under duress of pain or drugs. Wishful thinking?


I listened to his interview, although I seriously would not have taken the time to do so if it had not been for this thread. I find him to be an obnoxious asshole.

I could seriously care less if he makes peace with his "maker" or not. His spiritual life is not important to me. If there is a god that judges actions, it isn't his atheism that is going to get him kicked down to that fiery place, but more likely the cold assed way he threw Iraqis under the bus because he is a bigoted prick. I am sorry, all I can think of when he opens his mouth is "fuck you asshole", but that is just me and I could be wrong


Point well made and accepted.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 10:45:22 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


It is exactly Pascal's Wager. The wager is the refuge of the person unable or unwilling to consider their beliefs logically.


Call it what you will... my statement is an absolute...and either or... the truth in any circumstance of interpretation... as scientific as it can get... beliefs have nothing to do with it... only cold hard logic… one state of reality or the other.

Butch


Belief has everything to do with it if you are hedging your bet upon unknown reality.

As for "cold hard logic," suppose the god-cherished human trait is free thought and not selfish choice. You are just assuming god wants you to believe in him and love him.... well, assuming from Scripture, but suppose he is not so insecure as all that? I am saying the premise upon which the bet is made (the logic as you call it and so did Pascal btw) may be flawed.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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