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RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 11:14:46 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Belief has everything to do with it if you are hedging your bet upon unknown reality.

As for "cold hard logic," suppose the god-cherished human trait is free thought and not selfish choice. You are just assuming god wants you to believe in him and love him.... well, assuming from Scripture, but suppose he is not so insecure as all that? I am saying the premise upon which the bet is made (the logic as you call it and so did Pascal btw) may be flawed.

No you are making my statement more complicated then it is.... I am just saying if there is a God we will both find out when we die... If there is no God neither of us will know.

No need to make it into something it is not.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 21

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 12:21:16 PM

Brain

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He's a brilliant writer. This is one of the best first-person accounts of someone who is trying to overcome a serious form of cancer. Most don’t survive cancer of the esophagus long after diagnosis. But Hitchins isn't 90 and he has youth on his side.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/09/hitchens-201009

JOINING THE RESISTANCE?
The author at home in Washington, D.C., July 18, 2010.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 22

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 1:05:52 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
He may be right or he may be wrong…but…he will only know in the end if he is wrong…

No he won't, if he's right he'll never know it.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 23

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 2:08:22 PM

Tantriqu

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Joined: 12/29/2006
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He won't be here for long since he's a drinker and smoker, and his cancer is metastatic [think Patrick Swayze]. Too bad! The world needs more provoking pundits and brave Britwits.

I agree with a lot of his stances [anti-religion, -islamofascism and -zion expansionism] but not all [his alcoholism, and his stance that the four most overrated things in life were champagne, lobsters, anal sex, and picnics], even though he writes wittily and/or provokingly about all [including his article on 'The Grape and the Grain' and the fraud of 'Mother' Theresa].

I wish him the best. There are atheists in foxholes, indeed.

Edited to make paragraphs

< Message edited by Tantriqu -- 8/7/2010 2:09:19 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 24

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 2:10:15 PM

willbeurdaddy

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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

He won't be here for long since he's a drinker and smoker, and his cancer is metastatic [think Patrick Swayze]. Too bad! The world needs more provoking pundits and brave Britwits.

I agree with a lot of his stances [anti-religion, -islamofascism and -zion expansionism] but not all [his alcoholism, and his stance that the four most overrated things in life were champagne, lobsters, anal sex, and picnics], even though he writes wittily and/or provokingly about all [including his article on 'The Grape and the Grain' and the fraud of 'Mother' Theresa].

I wish him the best. There are atheists in foxholes, indeed.

Edited to make paragraphs

How dare he diminish lobsters!

(in reply to Tantriqu)

Post #: 25

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 2:24:54 PM

pogo4pres

Posts: 593
Joined: 1/14/2007
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Cancer??? Hell I would have thought cirrhosis would have been the disease that ended him, the number of times he was openly drunk while being interviewed was absurd. I do agree with him & Bill Maher though that organized religion is B.S.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 26

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 5:57:18 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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see we agree...now read it again slowly

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 27

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 6:05:14 PM

vincentML

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

He's a brilliant writer. This is one of the best first-person accounts of someone who is trying to overcome a serious form of cancer. Most don’t survive cancer of the esophagus long after diagnosis. But Hitchins isn't 90 and he has youth on his side.

But his genes are against him. His daddy died of the same illness.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 28

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 6:14:15 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Belief has everything to do with it if you are hedging your bet upon unknown reality.

As for "cold hard logic," suppose the god-cherished human trait is free thought and not selfish choice. You are just assuming god wants you to believe in him and love him.... well, assuming from Scripture, but suppose he is not so insecure as all that? I am saying the premise upon which the bet is made (the logic as you call it and so did Pascal btw) may be flawed.

No you are making my statement more complicated then it is.... I am just saying if there is a God we will both find out when we die... If there is no God neither of us will know.

No need to make it into something it is not.

Butch

If there is a god and if he gives a fig about you and me. You continue to presume a lot which you have absorbed from Christian doctrine understandably since it permeates our lives. You go from "if there is a god" to assuming we will then have an afterlife if there is a god. Well, maybe not. That may be another faulty unexamined premise. Maybe god is a carrot spirit and only carrots have an afterlife, and the god carrot put us here to plant and grow his own kind. Only half joking with the illustration but not about the faulty premise.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 29

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 6:17:15 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

If there is a god and if he gives a fig about you and me. You continue to presume a lot which you have absorbed from Christian doctrine understandably since it permeates our lives. You go from "if there is a god" to assuming we will then have an afterlife if there is a god. Well, maybe not. That may be another faulty unexamined premise. Maybe god is a carrot spirit and only carrots have an afterlife, and the god carrot put us here to plant and grow his own kind. Only half joking with the illustration but not about the faulty premise.

First I like carrots...a lot...I eat them...and "If there is a god and if he gives a fig about you and me" I've thought about this alot.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 30

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 6:24:37 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

If there is a god and if he gives a fig about you and me. You continue to presume a lot which you have absorbed from Christian doctrine understandably since it permeates our lives. You go from "if there is a god" to assuming we will then have an afterlife if there is a god. Well, maybe not. That may be another faulty unexamined premise. Maybe god is a carrot spirit and only carrots have an afterlife, and the god carrot put us here to plant and grow his own kind. Only half joking with the illustration but not about the faulty premise.

First I like carrots...a lot...I eat them...and "If there is a god and if he gives a fig about you and me" I've thought about this alot.

Butch

Ho boy! I suspect we all have, Butch.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 31

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 6:32:29 PM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It is exactly Pascal's Wager. The wager is the refuge of the person unable or unwilling to consider their beliefs logically.

Call it what you will... my statement is an absolute...and either or... the truth in any circumstance of interpretation... as scientific as it can get... beliefs have nothing to do with it... only cold hard logic… one state of reality or the other.

Butch

No actually it is a false dichotomy. You persist in teh belief that their are only two options, no god or the judeo-christian deity. In reality there are an infinit number of possibilities. What if the Norse were right? Or the Egyptians? What if Odin couldn't care less if you don't worship anything but gets very annoyed if you worship some other deity?

Taken to the logical conclusion, the only safe bets are to worship no gods or to worship all possible gods. Since the latter is obviously impossible the only rational choice is to worship no deity at all.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 32

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 6:38:22 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Yes but you must keep it in reference to the subject...his subject... the discussion at hand.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 33

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 6:46:25 PM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes but you must keep it in reference to the subject...his subject... the discussion at hand.

Simply put you made a claim twice. I responded. You don't have to like the response but since it directly addresses your statement it is as on topic as your original statement was.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 34

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 6:48:46 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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DomKen you misunderstand me... He was addressing the Judean God that is what I meant by his subject. I was not telling you to stay on subject.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 35

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 7:36:22 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

I don't like bad things to happen to anyone,

That's ok sweetie...I can hate the asswipe for you. What was the line from network "I hope you have an long and painful illness followed by an excruciatingly painful death." or something like that.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 36

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/7/2010 10:34:06 PM

Kirata

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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

What if the Norse were right? Or the Egyptians? ...the only safe bets are to worship no gods or to worship all possible gods

I think it a mistake to frame the question in terms of which tradition is "right". The alternative to disbelief must allow that maybe none of them are.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 37

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/9/2010 5:22:17 AM

DomYngBlk

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Don't wish Cancer on anyone but if there ever was a poster child of karma being a bitch he is it. How a prick like that was ever allowed to be an American I will never know.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 38

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/9/2010 5:25:00 AM

mnottertail

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I don't even know who the fuck he is, I really don't pay attention to bullshit artists, other than ones I can get to go off like a rocket, now that gives me wood.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 39

RE: Christopher Hitchens Dying of Cancer - 8/9/2010 5:57:32 AM

taleon

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From: The Netherlands
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Well, regardless what you think of Hitchens' points of view, he speaks eloquently, is not afraid to take an unpopular stance and will defend it rigorously. To put it mildly, he is not known for backing down just to please a powerful opponent, his publisher, his audience or his interviewer. If he is convinced he has a valid point, he'll confront them. To a certain degree, I find that admirable.

So, I wouldn't mind at all if I share a country with him. And without him, public debate surely would be a bit less lively, I think.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 40

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