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This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 6:33:59 PM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
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Great article from Greenwald-
As our economy collapses, our government continues to empty the Treasury to political cronies in pursuit of belligerent wars.

He quotes the excellent article by Simon Johnson from last year:

Squeezing the oligarchs, though, is seldom the strategy of choice among emerging-market governments. Quite the contrary: at the outset of the crisis, the oligarchs are usually among the first to get extra help from the government, such as preferential access to foreign currency, or maybe a nice tax break, or -- here's a classic Kremlin bailout technique -- the assumption of private debt obligations by the government. Under duress, generosity toward old friends takes many innovative forms. Meanwhile, needing to squeeze someone, most emerging-market governments look first to ordinary working folk -- at least until the riots grow too large.

Welcome to the 3rd World, America!

Greenwald:
Does anyone doubt that once a society ceases to be able to afford schools, public transit, paved roads, libraries and street lights -- or once it chooses not to be able to afford those things in pursuit of imperial priorities and the maintenance of a vast Surveillance and National Security State -- that a very serious problem has arisen, that things have gone seriously awry, that imperial collapse, by definition, is an imminent inevitability?

The political chattering class prefers to frame the national debate as one between "capitalism" and "Socialism"....ignoring the fact that we don't have any such thing as "Capitalism", nor is anyone actually proposing anything close to "Socialism".

What we have instead is crony capitalism, where the well connected wealthy few partner up with the government, to use the coercive power of the state to win favorable treatment, keeping the profits for themselves, while shifting the risk and danger to the rest of us.

Farming, oil, mining, autos, banks, military procurement....none of these industries is a free market; they are all heavily entangled with the government, depending on subsidies and favorable treatment even as they cry out about regulation and taxation.

So even as they turn out the lights in Colorado Springs, and close down the bus fleet in Georgia, and send the schoolchildren home in Utah, the corporate oligarchs plant their parasitic teeth deeper into the American taxpayer.

Post #: 1

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 6:37:08 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Rex,

people here will start to call you conspiracy nut.

We have to find some rose colored glasses. LOL.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 2

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 6:42:28 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

It be a bit of a pessimistic outlook considering not much of use has been produced by the west for years.

It's the result of becoming too focused on the service sector and banking, I'm told. Now we want people to start coming up with ideas for businesses that haven't been done yet.

Cars..Done
Computers..Done
Fans...Done
World peace..Almost Done

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 3

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 6:43:41 PM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

Thats it, the USA is FUBR

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(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 4

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 6:45:55 PM

EbonyWood

Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Rex,

people here will start to call you conspiracy nut.

We have to find some rose colored glasses. LOL.

I think the difference is that Rex isn't hoarding silver under the floorboards (yet) or that he is under constant surveilllance or that his ex parrot was using hypnosis to implant his mind with NWO idealogy.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 5

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 6:52:46 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Rex,

people here will start to call you conspiracy nut.

We have to find some rose colored glasses. LOL.

Rex hasn't proposed some theory about One World Government controlled by the Queen of England...

He rightly asserts that there are natural partnerships between the monied class and the political elites. How do you think crony capitalism gets its foot in the door? They buy their way in, and they control via their campaign contributions...

Manufacturing Consent, Noam Chomsky shows how we are basically a product sold to advertisers via ratings, which in turn they sell us products... but we are the real product media sells...

I could go on and on and on about this topic...

I think the reason you are rebuked is because you have to be able to lay a foundation for the claims you make, and Alex Jones doesn't help you do that.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 6

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 6:54:08 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

my money is the quality that it was when I was a kid. in other words it is not outsourced into cheap plastic junk.

at least I back my talk up with my cash.

(in reply to EbonyWood)

Post #: 7

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 7:07:27 PM

EbonyWood

Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

my money is the quality that it was when I was a kid. in other words it is not outsourced into cheap plastic junk.

at least I back my talk up with my cash.

I have zero debts. Zilch. And I buy all my own hamburger.

But I'm thinking of turning my street into a twue socialist barter economy. The guy up the street will fix next doors computer for a couple of rib eye steaks and a beer. The ubercapitalists around here will have heart attacks because the profit will be social integration, not monetary. It's a win/win.

You should move here. Plus we have sun.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 8

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 7:09:21 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

barter is good. Yay.

(in reply to EbonyWood)

Post #: 9

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 7:25:11 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

Any article with the phrase "imperial priorities" isnt worth the pixels that died to write it.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 10

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 7:28:49 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

aha! So what you mean- is it is not CNN.

Man oh man. What is this world coming to?

The net is suppose to be an echo chamber for CNN/FOX.

stomp

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 11

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 9:12:00 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

my money is the quality that it was when I was a kid. in other words it is not outsourced into cheap plastic junk.

at least I back my talk up with my cash.

I have zero debts. Zilch. And I buy all my own hamburger.

But I'm thinking of turning my street into a twue socialist barter economy. The guy up the street will fix next doors computer for a couple of rib eye steaks and a beer. The ubercapitalists around here will have heart attacks because the profit will be social integration, not monetary. It's a win/win.

You should move here. Plus we have sun.

I have sun here... what are the other perks?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to EbonyWood)

Post #: 12

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/6/2010 10:52:08 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

I have little hope anything will change in the short term.

The left won't budge on their pet entitlements, the right won't budge on their military exploits. So, it is August now, the debt is ticking up, the base rate is still at stupid low levels, and the economy still is puttering.

Here's the solution.

Slash military.
Slash entitlements
Remove stupid drug laws.

Make it illegal for any state, city, county, village, or federal government agency to offer any benefit to any private business, or individual. Whether that be subsidized loans, deferred taxes, free land, or otherwise.

Make the standards for disability rational, as in this dipshit down the block, because of his heart condition, is not disabled, he can answer phones, or do some kind of data entry, nope we pay him disability based on some kind of mid 20th century model of labor. Oh we also pay his 300+ pound wife to sit on her ass all day because of self induced diabetes, for eating like a hog... God it makes me sick... Those to probably cost the taxpayers well over a 100K a year, between, straight money, food stamps, free medical, subsidized electricity, etc.. It's a joke, they should live like complete shit, because they are. They don't volunteer in their 24 hours a day free time, they just consume, and consume they do, all the fake aldi's ice cream you can shove down a hog's gullet.

Oh yeah, make food stamps for food only as in only for food that offers some type of required nutritional benefit. As in no sodas, no potato chips, no candy. I've been avoiding the local convenience store, because half the fucking time the person in front of me is buying a soda, and some kind of snack with the fucking LINK CARD!!! Ruins my attitude for like 20 minutes every time I see that.

Once you get that done, you break all those huge financials apart, and put permanent max valuation caps on them. Then once that is done, you go and do that to the next industry, until we have some reasonable level of competition, instead of this oligarchy crap, that feigns competition, through the use of subsidiaries, and branding.

Also while in process of doing that, you impose punitive taxes on foreign companies that exceed our maximum company size standards.

There you go, partial current list. HEHE.

But really I think the country is just fucked for years to come. After that well it may be better, but the current mindset from all involved appears to be do nothing until the cards fall.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 13

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/7/2010 1:26:40 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

With this Obama Economy I heard that it would be "wise" to stay out of the stock market for the next 9 months.

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Post #: 14

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/7/2010 6:45:50 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have sun here... what are the other perks?

Not before noon one day this week

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 15

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/7/2010 7:22:57 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

With this Obama Economy I heard that it would be "wise" to stay out of the stock market for the next 9 months.

Why? And put your money where? Hanging on to it doesn't earn anything. Interest rates are low.

Or invest on fundamentals (which nearly always works well, practically by definition) and collect dividends while buying a share in solid companies at good prices.

In other words, treat stocks like the part ownership in those companies they are, instead of like some giant casino.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 16

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/7/2010 7:25:49 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

With this Obama Economy I heard that it would be "wise" to stay out of the stock market for the next 9 months.

Who said it would be wise and what is their motive?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 17

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/7/2010 7:38:32 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

AR,

That's what corruption and decay looks like, especially when the country's populace is more enamored of self-righteous slogans then looking seriously at the overall picture and considering realistic solutions to our needs and challenges. It need not wait for the collapse of the empire--it's been going on since the 18th century.

Collapsing empire comes from defending overextended large borders, physical and metaphorical. We are indeed in danger of slow collapse if we repeat the arrogance of previous empires that we are the strongest ever and are immune. As that's exactly what we're doing, yes, we've been in slow collapse for a while now, and will probably continue for decades, but another world power will replace us in time, just as has always happened, unless we take a wiser course. That seems unlikely, though.

Remember--Mongolia and the Dutch Republic were once world powers. Things change.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 18

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/7/2010 7:48:01 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I have little hope anything will change in the short term.

The left won't budge on their pet entitlements, the right won't budge on their military exploits. So, it is August now, the debt is ticking up, the base rate is still at stupid low levels, and the economy still is puttering.

Here's the solution.

Slash military.
Slash entitlements
Remove stupid drug laws.

The Social Security Fund is a Creditor against the US Treasury to the tune of $2.7 Trillion in Treasury Bonds. So, before you consider slashing our entitlements you should first pay back the fucking money we lent to you.

quote:

Make it illegal for any state, city, county, village, or federal government agency to offer any benefit to any private business, or individual. Whether that be subsidized loans, deferred taxes, free land, or otherwise.

That will work wonders to attract new jobs to a municipality and to broaden the future tax base.

quote:

Make the standards for disability rational, as in this dipshit down the block, because of his heart condition, is not disabled, he can answer phones, or do some kind of data entry, nope we pay him disability based on some kind of mid 20th century model of labor. Oh we also pay his 300+ pound wife to sit on her ass all day because of self induced diabetes, for eating like a hog... God it makes me sick... Those to probably cost the taxpayers well over a 100K a year, between, straight money, food stamps, free medical, subsidized electricity, etc.. It's a joke, they should live like complete shit, because they are. They don't volunteer in their 24 hours a day free time, they just consume, and consume they do, all the fake aldi's ice cream you can shove down a hog's gullet.

Extrapolating from a few cases to the many. A logical error.

quote:

Oh yeah, make food stamps for food only as in only for food that offers some type of required nutritional benefit. As in no sodas, no potato chips, no candy. I've been avoiding the local convenience store, because half the fucking time the person in front of me is buying a soda, and some kind of snack with the fucking LINK CARD!!! Ruins my attitude for like 20 minutes every time I see that.

Right! Remove minor subsidies from the needy but heaven forbid you make mention of Agriculture subsidies to mega industrial farms.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 19

RE: This Is What Collapsing Empire Looks Like - 8/7/2010 8:05:21 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Any article with the phrase "imperial priorities" isnt worth the pixels that died to write it.

"This great democracy is moving onward to its great destiny. Woe to the man or nation that try to bar its imperial march..... The time given to athletic contests and to the injuries occurred on the playing field are part of the price which the English speaking race has paid for being world-conquerors."

Sen. Henry Cabot Lodge in a commencement address to the Harvard Class of 1896. (from The War Lovers by Evan Thomas, p 143)

Imperialism? Never crossed our minds.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 20

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