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RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/16/2010 8:45:21 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Yes, He used other peoples material for commercial gain.

I don't think that kind of stuff is well enforced.

What does it say and the end of every baseball game?

" The preceding is the property of Major League Baseball" " The use or rebroadcast without express written consent is prohibited"

This isn't that hard folks, really.


I didn't misunderstand the premise and that wasn't what I was asking, dum dum.  What I was trying to point out is that it would be very costly for a DJ to play music for people in public venues.  Rock stars are already making money hand over fist.  They're fucking billionaires and stuff.  Just how much money do you need all to yourself?  I could understand completely if it's some huge venue that is also raking in the bucks, but for the little mom and pop run businesses?  I guess those places just shouldn't exist and we should all be forced to pay through the teeth every time we want to go out?   

< Message edited by DarlingSavage -- 8/16/2010 8:46:29 PM >

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RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/16/2010 9:02:02 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Again, we're talking a few hundred dollars once a year, not any huge sum.




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Profile   Post #: 142
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/16/2010 9:37:27 PM   
DarlingSavage


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Joined: 9/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Again, we're talking a few hundred dollars once a year, not any huge sum.






Then why throw such a hissy fit over it?  Besides, to some people, a few hundred dollars a year might be a big deal. 


< Message edited by DarlingSavage -- 8/16/2010 9:38:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/16/2010 9:38:45 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		My question exactly.

It's a non-event. Been doing it this way since radio was invented.

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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/16/2010 9:39:43 PM   
DarlingSavage


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Joined: 9/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

My question exactly.

It's a non-event. Been doing it this way since radio was invented.


Especially for a group of people who already have so much.


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Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/16/2010 9:50:08 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Musicians?

You do know not everyone's the Rolling Stones, right?

You'd also be surprised. Touring is a very high overhead operation, without the profits you might suppose.

How is this different from movies? You can't just show a movie in a bar either. Hollywood isn't hurting. But actors still like to get paid, even the ones who aren't the stars.

Want a nice equitable solution? Hire local musicians playing originals. Get people to go hear them.

Boo if they play popular hits.








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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/16/2010 11:05:20 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Musicians?

You do know not everyone's the Rolling Stones, right?

You'd also be surprised. Touring is a very high overhead operation, without the profits you might suppose.

How is this different from movies? You can't just show a movie in a bar either. Hollywood isn't hurting. But actors still like to get paid, even the ones who aren't the stars.

Want a nice equitable solution? Hire local musicians playing originals. Get people to go hear them.

Boo if they play popular hits.










Yes, I realize that.  And I also like to go listen to live music.  I was merely speaking about venues that play the popular stuff by people that have already made it.  Usually, musicians that are starting out, they just want to get heard and get their music out there, am I right? 

Now the sad part is that bands that play in bars usually don't get paid shit, even though they take $10 at the door, most bands won't even see half that, now that's wrong.  Why can't the bar make $$ off the alcohol? 


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Strangers have the BEST candy!

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 5:46:13 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		And now you understand why smarter musicians join the union and use contracts (and use the union's legal services as needed).

These poor venues a few are worried about stiff the wannabes continually. Go to the ones that hire union musicians.

All this is just the legal framework of doing business in the music business. Playing just for the exposure is a scam.

It's all about getting paid for your work--work that already involves a lot of upfront unpaid time and money.

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 8:00:29 AM   
DarlingSavage


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Joined: 9/18/2009
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quote:

These poor venues a few are worried about stiff the wannabes continually.


Who are the wannabees?  As a liberal, I'm all for unions, though!  You could even call me a wobbly!


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Strangers have the BEST candy!

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 8:02:38 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Who are the wannabees?


People who dream of hitting it big but aren't even covering their beer money.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/17/2010 8:03:07 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 10:06:01 AM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline 		Actually, I wasn't talking about performing, I was talking about giving your CDs to someone to play for you for exposure.  I agree though, that venues shouldn't stiff their performing artists.  I mean, if they do that, how do they expect to keep having people come play there?  That's just poor business sense, bad business, and lack of common sense.

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Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 1:25:12 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Actually, I wasn't talking about performing, I was talking about giving your CDs to someone to play for you for exposure.


If you own the rights (which is probably the case with the people you're talking about), you are free to do whatever you wish with them, including give them away.

Giving your CDs to play makes sense in those instances--worth far more than a nickel a song would get ya!

But someone obtaining your CD and playing it without your permission, especially in lieu of hiring you to play--not good.

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 1:41:36 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.freevermontradio.org/
here we go.   fresh music.



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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 1:51:32 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

But someone obtaining your CD and playing it without your permission, especially in lieu of hiring you to play--not good.


I totally agree with that.  Not cool at all!


_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 2:57:48 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		I disagree. Whatever someone has in his possession, whether he bought it or acquired it by other means, is his possession. If someone has bought or by other means acquired an information carrier then it is his information carrier until he loses it, gives it away or for other reasons has no access to it any more. It is not the information carrier of anyone else, no matter what information is on it.

Any music or other information on such an information carrier does not belong to whomever created it. Such information stopped belonging to him the moment he shared it with someone else. That is because information is not of physical substance, it is not material. Only the information carrier is material.

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 5:10:12 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Only the information carrier is material"

So then radio waves and DSL/cable carriers are material.

But not sound waves.

T

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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 6:56:26 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I disagree. Whatever someone has in his possession, whether he bought it or acquired it by other means, is his possession. If someone has bought or by other means acquired an information carrier then it is his information carrier until he loses it, gives it away or for other reasons has no access to it any more. It is not the information carrier of anyone else, no matter what information is on it.

Any music or other information on such an information carrier does not belong to whomever created it. Such information stopped belonging to him the moment he shared it with someone else. That is because information is not of physical substance, it is not material. Only the information carrier is material.


This thread has been interesting (as all discussions of this topic are) as the laymen chime in and show what little they know about copyright and ownership. Disagree all you wish but you could not be more incorrect if you tried.


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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 7:35:35 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		So try locking a bit of information into a safe, preventing anyone else from laying their hands on it. Like for example the temperature in New York at noon yesterday. Anyone asserting that he owns that bit of information is lying. Information that is known by more than one person is no longer owned information, but shared information. One may own a bit of paper - an information carrier - with that temperature scribbled upon it and have that in a safe, but the information itself cannot be owned for it has no material status.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/17/2010 7:36:10 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/17/2010 9:20:10 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"material status"

Rule, that seems to be your fundamental point. Many would disagree. With your stance on the subject, we will have to agree to disagree.

But you didn't respond to what I percieved in a previous post. Is the fact that I own the PC on which my downloaded music resides, and that I paid the DSL bill mean that I own it ? Is it your assertion that I can then share it freely, or even sell it to those gullible enough to buy something you deem should be free, and it should be perfectly legal ?

I have not been wreckless in that regard. I have burned a few CDs for people but never charged them except for one person who willingly offered. And he didn't pay in money (it was green but not money). I have never burned a movie for anyone else, only for my own backup.

My assertion is that what THEY claim is going to fly in court, that it is actually property, and my defense will be that I've dropped so much money into the industry over the years I am entitled. I hope you don't mind if I don't take your advice if they come for me. I am also careful what I share on P2P and don't share the new stuff. Only those pieces that were IMPOSSIBLE to find on the market and very hard to get on P2P.

I can now watch movies on the internet, some have commercials some don't. That means no cable bill. And this runs into a 52" bigscreen and a thousand watt audio system. Well 900 more like, but you can't tell. I have a couple non driving friends and if I tell them it is ass, grass or gas to get here and play a movie, I have collected something material.

So does your assertion include things of value rather than money ?

Which brings us to the cab driver. That ride is not material, only the gas and mainaitence on the car. So he is not allowed to make a profit ? Does it extend that far ?

For a few days my Grandfather made $500 per day plus free transportation and lodging. This was before 1960 when I was born, and that was alot of money. What happened was that he was a budding machinist and worked at a knitting mill at the time. Not working the machines but repairing them. These mills were always breaking down and it was this one part all the time. Where he worked he modified the machines and the manufacturer of the machines called after they had noticed no complaints coming in from this one company in Cleveland.

They approached him personally and wanted to know why their company was doing fine while everyone else across the country was bitching. He told them what he did. They put him over there with their engineers and he showed them the modification. He made more money in a week than most people made in a year back then.

They used his knowledge to make more money and/or save their corporate ass.

Was that material enough ?

T

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: The Music-Copyright Enforcers - 8/18/2010 4:34:25 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		How is this?

I know a guy who requests the least worst song of a certain group.

He does this because someone else keeps pushing the annoying bulk of that groups songs.  He knows the station will only play the same group with in a 4-8 span. 

So- the least worst song is being funded.

How is that for talent?

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 160
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