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RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 12:54:20 PM   
MasterCord


Posts: 144
Joined: 7/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

You are pushing your own health deficiencies upon the world at large as truth


Children of smokers have more allergies. Children of smokers get sick more often. Children of smokers have much more asthma. This is proven to be the case. Now you are stating I am universalizing my medical problems, the fact of the matter is children exposed to second hand smoke are more sickly than those who are not. What sort of asshole smokes in a car with a little kid? What sort of jerk doesn't care about the air that their kid breathes. Pollution is not good for kids, why would you expose them to it unnecessarily?

I was a smoker when my son was young. I smoked outside. I did not smoke in my car. It is not that hard to keep kids away from smoke, it just requires that parents stop being selfish pricks


In one of the strange ironies born of debates such as this...I recall the Great Uninformed, all gathered at the entrance to our Town Hall, protesting the approval given by the town selectmen to site a natural-gas powered power plant in our town.  "NO POLLUTION!!!" the signs said....(.....we really do need better education in the sciences in this country...)... many of which were carried by....people who were also smoking.

Amazing......

MC


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 5:10:49 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You said that your parents smoked... did you think that this was perhaps the source of what made you allergic to other things?

I have debated the risks of smoking with you too often, and I am not into typing long-assed replies today because I burned my wrist, but it seems no matter what anyone says negative about smoking you try to prove them wrong. You know, kids are supposed to be precious to their parents, any parent who would expose kids to increased health risks when study after study shows that children of smokers are sickly, well that parent sucks


Nope, I have been tested for allergies to known problems and it was found I was intolerant to lactose and salicylic acid. Lactose as in cow's milk is designed to be fed to baby cows, not humans, just like human milk might not be good for baby cows or baby any other animal that needs milk, milk as we understand it, is not the same for every creature that produces it.

Now, it is odd perhaps, my parents now don't smoke, yet I do, and my lactose intolerance has gone, if smoking was the cause of that intolerance, why is it I no longer have it ? Milk, I average drinking two pints a day and think next to beer and coffee, it is the best drink to drink, I love it and full fat milk at that.

Now I understand everyone, their physiology is different, but this blanket statement that smoking is so bad for everyone I cannot accept. Aye true it might cause ill health to some, but it might have no effect on others, so what is it we are condoning doing, protecting the few or many at the expense of the few or many, but if that was taken to be the modus operandi with every suspected harmful substance, which I believe it should be, just where would we be in this world of uncertainty depending upon scientists who go from one discovery to the next and write the chapters as they go along, but in writing chapters, they have not yet reached the conclusion.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 5:12:45 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Sometimes people outgrow allergies. I used to be allergic to Latex when I was little. I am not anymore

But this:


quote:

Now I understand everyone, their physiology is different, but this blanket statement that smoking is so bad for everyone I cannot accept. Aye true it might cause ill health to some, but it might have no effect on others, so what is it we are condoning doing, protecting the few or many at the expense of the few or many, but if that was taken to be the modus operandi with every suspected harmful substance, which I believe it should be, just where would we be in this world of uncertainty depending upon scientists who go from one discovery to the next and write the chapters as they go along, but in writing chapters, they have not yet reached the conclusion.



We are talking about parents protecting their own offspring from an unnecessary bad toxic habit. For you to continue to rationalize bad parenting astounds me

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/10/2010 5:14:35 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 5:30:25 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I have no allergies at all any more, but that might be related to where I live, and how I live. i.e., no processed food, no non organic meat, no wonder chemicals to clean with, I wear natural fibres only and engage in anerobic and aerobic exercise daily in largely Atlantic windswept countryside. Cleaning myself, no parabens, no SLES, no phthalates and no petrochemicals. and I moisturise with organics or quite often coconut oil. I filter faucet water through ceramic, carbon and silver to drink and only drink boiled water in coffee. I am by no means fanatical in my choices, but I have found what works for me, and given my income, it is often cheaper than the latest bright packaged heavily advertised on tv whatever. Even the tv these days spends more time off than on, as I am having major problems with the new UK drive to get us all on digital tv, my digital decoders keep on failing, either them or the tv, it kind of alternates. Only a problem if the tv had anything worthwhile to watch on it, but these days I am finding very little of that.

But if smoking is a problem to health, then it is only in conjunction with other problems to health, as many exposures to harm exasperate a problem, perhaps the chemical us as defined by industry is the problem and not any one specific thing ?

As to parents and what they do, well, who ever taught a parent to be a parent, I understand there is no training or education on that, and as to what parents believe, well, everyone is an individual and takes on board what they feel to be the correct knowledge, we are after all, only human.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 8/10/2010 5:33:15 PM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 5:36:49 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

As to parents and what they do, well, who ever taught a parent to be a parent, I understand there is no training or education on that, and as to what parents believe, well, everyone is an individual and takes on board what they feel to be the correct knowledge, we are after all, only human.


Parents who beat their kids have children that grow up to beat their children. Is your defense that it is okay to abuse your children with tobacco smoke filled environment because they don't know any better? So the parent that shakes their baby should be allowed to because they didn't know it would hurt it? This law addresses the problem of people not knowing their ass from page 8. I am glad they passed it

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 5:55:04 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Yeah, people who were beaten as kids grow up to beat their kids, bollocks !

I was beaten as a kid for the things I did and did not do with belt, cane or hand, but I don't beat kids, in fact I am a pacifist, a person who completely abhors violence of any kind to whoever. True I do not have my own kids, I can't, but I have had step kids and step grand kids and never once did I feel the need to raise a hand, not that the kids were anything special, just that I don't believe violence achieves anything more than resentment and resentment causes it's own problems with character.

The law, just exactly what does it know, who decides, parents or people who are not parents, theorists or those that practise ? If theory worked in every case, what a world it would be, instead we just have a world full of people, the theorists and the people that practise.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 6:01:21 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Do you have any kids?

Seriously, any parent who would smoke around their kids is a fucked up individual.. I am a parent, good parents do not do ANYTHING that could harm their wee ones, period, end of story. There is no debate on this matter.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 6:29:46 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Do I have any kids, no, I have already said I can't, a medical impossibility, but I have been a father to four who went on to have grand kids, six in all. In my role of step father/grand father, I even stopped a frazzled and confused mother from venting her frustration on her child, and I  reaped the scorn for it, but it saved a child from violence it would not understand anyway.

As to smoking, there is too much conflicting information, all these ills attributed to smoking, yet it is still permitted, if it was all that bad, then the authorities feering human stupidity and mal education should plain and simple withdraw the product from sale,or at least come clean about the truth of the matter, so even the slow witted might be able to understand the de facto information and make their corrections accordingly.

But because you understand, you cannot speak for everyone else, for everyone is different and hears different things from different sources, you are just educated the way you are fro what you have heard and understood, your choice is clear, as it is for others.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 7:14:44 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		It is pretty easy to understand laws on this side of the pond....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 7:58:51 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Do you have any kids?

Seriously, any parent who would smoke around their kids is a fucked up individual.. I am a parent, good parents do not do ANYTHING that could harm their wee ones, period, end of story. There is no debate on this matter.


I hope you didn't raise children in the LA area, because applying your standards would make you a "fucked up individual", as you put it. Unless you think willfully raising a child in one of the most polluted areas in the country is "responsible".

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070501081737.htm

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 8:00:13 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Do you have any kids?

Seriously, any parent who would smoke around their kids is a fucked up individual.. I am a parent, good parents do not do ANYTHING that could harm their wee ones, period, end of story. There is no debate on this matter.



Apocolypse ll . I don't even have kids and that is just wrong. No smoking around kids for god sake, idiots....

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 8:04:08 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Do you have any kids?

Seriously, any parent who would smoke around their kids is a fucked up individual.. I am a parent, good parents do not do ANYTHING that could harm their wee ones, period, end of story. There is no debate on this matter.


I hope you didn't raise children in the LA area, because applying your standards would make you a "fucked up individual", as you put it. Unless you think willfully raising a child in one of the most polluted areas in the country is "responsible".

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070501081737.htm



I did not raise kids in the LA area... I moved here after my son was grown. To knowingly inflict unnecessary pollution on your kids is unconscionable. You want to justify it by talking about air pollution, I am against air pollution too.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 8:20:29 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Do you have any kids?

Seriously, any parent who would smoke around their kids is a fucked up individual.. I am a parent, good parents do not do ANYTHING that could harm their wee ones, period, end of story. There is no debate on this matter.


I hope you didn't raise children in the LA area, because applying your standards would make you a "fucked up individual", as you put it. Unless you think willfully raising a child in one of the most polluted areas in the country is "responsible".

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070501081737.htm



I did not raise kids in the LA area... I moved here after my son was grown. To knowingly inflict unnecessary pollution on your kids is unconscionable. You want to justify it by talking about air pollution, I am against air pollution too.



My point is using your standard, then every family in LA, chicago, New York, etc. is "fucked up", because there are healthier places to live, and no one has to live there, the same as no smoker has to smoke.

So, by your standards of parenting, about 70% of the population or more, once you count all your perfect visions of parenthood up, would be "fucked up".

Must be hard being so perfect, as opposed to fucked up.






(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 8:25:11 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		No, by my standard parents who would intentionally pollute the air that their kids breathe need to have their ass kicked. We cannot stop all sources of pollution, we should mitigate the ones we can, and if we don't as parents, well it is wrong... and btw, most people that live in really polluted areas are poor people who have no choice... parents usually move their kids to cleaner places to live

Have you ever been trapped in a car with a smoker as a nonsmoker? I have, that was my childhood, and it is WRONG to smoke in an enclosed area... shit, I can smell people stopped at lights smoking in the car next to me!

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/10/2010 8:26:20 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 8:51:28 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		There's merit to the statement, My mom  mom was abused and she took it out on her kids, my mom was horribly abused  as a child and she continued on to abuse both me and my brother, me emotionally verbally and psychically, and him emotionally and verbally.

I wouldn't say it's  un equivocally going to happen, because people who make the effort to break the cycle can go on and not continue the cycle of abuse, but if you don't make any efforts to change or get help or deal with the past abuse, you are likely to pass it on and become an abuser yourself.

And that is something I have been told by therapists many times, by many different therapists through the years, not just some idea I came up with myself.

quote:



Yeah, people who were beaten as kids grow up to beat their kids, bollocks !


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One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 8:56:02 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Not to be rude to those who smoke, but every one I know who smokes says they don't stink, them and their belongings are always clean and fresh, and I am like huh, yeah, then why can I smell you clear from down the shopping isle, or the minute you walk into my presence.

Smoke on clothing and hair and people just flat out stinks, and I used to ride in a cab to therapy, since the program payed for me to be picked up and dropped off, and the cab driver would light up the minute I was in the car and on the road, and I'd get home and my dad would tell me PHEW YOU STINK LIKE AN ASHTRAY.

And that always pissed me off because I  had JUST had a bath and put clean clothing on that day and the cabbies smoking made me need another bath and to re wash my hair and a change of clothing after just 20 minutes in his cab with him smoking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Have you ever been trapped in a car with a smoker as a nonsmoker? I have, that was my childhood, and it is WRONG to smoke in an enclosed area... shit, I can smell people stopped at lights smoking in the car next to me!


< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 8/10/2010 9:39:58 PM >

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One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 9:19:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Cabbies here arent even allowed to smoke in their cabs.

I smoke... a pack every 4-5 days. And i dont stink unless i just had one. I never smoked around my son as he was an asthmatic, and he was born in a time when it was still legal to smoke in hospitals.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 9:31:42 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		tazzy maybe things are different here in Sacramento, or maybe they're not allowed to, and he just ignored that rule. I should of said something but I liked Kenny, he was nice, and I didn't wanna stir up shit for him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Cabbies here arent even allowed to smoke in their cabs.




_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 9:44:45 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You, an adult, allowed a grown man to dictate your health, but you demean parents who do the same?

Strange.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... - 8/10/2010 9:53:49 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Children can't stand up for themselves  and say "put that out,"  or, "I'm getting out of the car," Or, " You're not allowed to do that in this car", or complain to their parents boss that their parent is smoking in the car while driving them around . I can, and I liked him and I chose not to get him in trouble with his boss, though I didn't like how smelly I was after riding with him.

I'd feel differently if the children in the car with smokers had the capability to say put it out,I don't want to ride in your cigarette smoke and stink,  an have someone respect that, but chose not to say anything. But they don't have that right to tell a parent what to do , in this instance, and have it be listened to..

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You, an adult, allowed a grown man to dictate your health, but you demean parents who do the same?

Strange.


_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 100
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