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RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 6:14:07 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Vilifying a "mosque" in NYC and "cracking down" on illegal immigrants will go a long way to creating jobs, peace between nations, and getting the economy rolling.

I'm also sure GOP policies could push the DOW as high as 11000, too. I might take four years, tho.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 6:16:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The market is over 11k now or about double from when Obama took office, yet he only recieves the credit when it goes down. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 6:26:05 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, what is the Grand Old Parties plans to get us out of our current difficulties?

How will they create jobs?
How will they balance payments, and pay down our debt?
How will they fix our infrastructure?
How will they deal with the global community to keep us safe and competitive?

I'm listening.

They won't...they dont give a damn. They just want power.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 6:39:47 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Any amount of money I have to spend is better than the government wasteing it. $ 100 will go a long way maybe for dinner and drinks. The restaurant keeps employees that now have my $ 100 to spend someplace else. $ 100 given to the govt doesn't employ anyone. The more they take, the less everyone has to spend.


So do they have sidewalks in front of that restaurant where you are going for dinner and drinks?

Are you driving there?

Where do you think the money comes from to maintain the sidewalks and roads?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 6:45:46 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That's the problem. The govt spends all of the money but it does nothing to put anyone to work. Unless you have a job with the govt.


Uhhhhhhhh.....................you might want to think a little more about what you just said.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 6:48:21 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		If it's spent, it does what all money does in the economy.

The dollar doesn't give a damn who spent it.


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:02:08 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Actually Music it does matter who spent it, because at the very least Government money has wastes associated with it that don't really serve any function other than to support consolidation of power. The government can't spend money at point B without collecting it from points X Y and Z. Government spending makes one HUGE assumption, that the government directing a wastefull spending program (see administrative costs of paying for something with tax dollars) knows the best way to spend the money to stimulate the economy. The Porkulous Package showed us what the Government thought was the RIGHT places to spend that money.

ANd when it comes to sidewalks get a clue about reality, developers who build the neighborhoods and the shopping malls and restaurants build the sidewalks NOT THE GOVERNMENT. All the government does is tell the developer they have to build them. So $) tax dollars built that sidewalk in front of the restaurant, that was money from that greedy private developer that built that sidewalk.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:35:40 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You miss the point.

The direction of the money changes, sure. But even if every penny were completely wasted, it still goes back into the economy to pay for something. It doesn't simply vanish.

You also make sweeping assumptions about government spending, but that's a different issue.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/17/2010 7:37:38 AM >

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:37:12 AM   
cuckyman


Posts: 471
Joined: 3/25/2009
Status: offline 		The answers are simple...one only need to go back to the 'stagflation days of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan's coming to power.... The global competition for investment dollars is intense.... while our economy slumped under the socialist Obama tenure (it was the Democrat initative to mandate government guarenteed mortgages to people that could not afford them, that imploded the economy (see the "Community Redevolpment Act" under Clinton's regime, and furthered by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd).... the Australian stockmarket exploded to 140% growth!! Money goes where it is not penalized by high taxes, out of control litigation, and regulation.... and the only way to bring the money back on our shores (over 13 TRILLION American dollars in Cayman Island British Banks legally) is to eliminate the impediments to investment here..... Regan was all about just that, and the growth of the economy during his administration debunks the 'progressive' economic philosphy of government control of the economy in spades! Reagan's tax cuts brought huge job growth, but he was saddled with a democrat controlled congress that refused to cut spending on more and more entitlment programs, thus the deficits....although the gross revenues to the government increased due to increased economic activity. That FACT is undeniable....

The US Government ownes ONE THIRD of the land of the US.... its time to sell a bunch of that land and apply it to the debt....its time for Tort Reform to limit the lawsuit industry of ambulance chasing, out of control lawyers....and free the economic engine of America. Either we have to trust our own people or companies, or the free market place will die, and with it....JOBS!! If you don't like a company's way of doing business....DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.... the free market model works, that is why America's economy (while suffering under crushing government control and regualtions) is still almost four times that of China and Japan... We built the largest standard of living the world has ever seen, and to say that is a bad thing is just 'progressive' soicalist hype.... Government is NOT the answer to our economic woes....it is the REASON for our troubles.... Just go look at Michigan.... The democrats have controlled Michigan for decades, and they, along with unions, have destroyed what once was the model of success for the world.... Detroit now looks like Beruit.... ever wonder why? Michigan has more taxation and regulation that most any other state and it has wreaked havoc with that states economy.... factories closed and moved.... business closed...and now they are knocking down deserted city blocks in the city to grow vegtables! If that FACT does not gather your attention, what will???? The flow of investment capital, once it is offshore, is not within the control of Obama or this administration.... the world markets compete for that investment dollar as those dollars bring jobs to their economies.... its a competition....pure and simple.... Who in their right mind is going to go to say Indiana and buy land to build a factory, going thru all the environmental controls...the zoning controls....the litigation risks if a worker gets hurt and they are embroiled in a mulit million dollar lawsuit.... then spend the money to equip the factory, train the people, and invest in inventory...when should the product actually sell to a market, with the Obama administration coming in and taxing them out of 50% of their profits????? No one is going to play that game..... that is WHY we have no new jobs being created....period....

Our economy will ony grow when we cut government's power and spending down to the bone....lay off thousands of bureacrats and paper shufflers in DC....and send the power and money back down to the states where the founders placed it orginally, and unleash the engine of the free market to allow America to overcome this 'progressive' cancer that is stifiling growth.... Sell off government lands...open ANWAR for oil production.... close military installations that duplicate missions.... and force governents at all levels to slash spending to the core.... then and only then will we see our country revitalize with growth and prosperity..... it works...pure and simple.... Socialism does not.... government is an impediment to freedoms....on all levels.... we don't need to be controlled by people that work in government because they could not really make it in the free market.... Making a company work takes talent...drive...long hours...and guts..... no guarentees.... That spirit is what made America, America..... and anything other than that is pure socialist LIES! Question is, will this 'worst generation' ever figure that out with their socialist indoctranation from government union run substandard 'schools' (see indoctranation).... if not, we will perish as a economic power, and enter a dark and unsettled time of political paralysis, and social upheavel...... which will it be? If you ARE an American....its time to once again believe in ourselves....not a bloated, over controlling, and sufficating inept bureacracy of ass sitting, no talent do-nothings..... what happens in the future will be determined by the American People.... NOT Washington.....

You can take that to the bank.....

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:40:45 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Regan was all about just that, and the growth of the economy during his administration debunks the 'progressive' economic philosphy of government control of the economy in spades! Reagan's tax cuts brought huge job growth, but he was saddled with a democrat controlled congress that refused to cut spending on more and more entitlment programs, thus the deficits....although the gross revenues to the government increased due to increased economic activity. That FACT is undeniable....


He quadrupled the national debt by pouring billions of new dollars into the military-industrial complex in a spending frenzy with the Soviet Union. Color it any color you wish, but it's still massive government spending pumped into the economy for stuff we really didn't need....like Reagan's Star Wars wet dream.

(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:46:44 AM   
cuckyman


Posts: 471
Joined: 3/25/2009
Status: offline 		The people that quadrupled the debt was the democrat congress that Regan inherited..... the GOP had not controlled the purse strings for over 40 years until 94, so to blame Regan for congressional spending is a LIE..... he had to make a deal with the devil to get his tax cuts thru....once implemented, revenues to the grovernment GREW...NO DECLINED....those deficits were the soul properity of an out of control DEMOCRAT CONGRESS.... spin it any way you wish, but the FACTS ARE THE FACTS....PERIOD....

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:49:03 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You miss the point.

The direction of the money changes, sure. But even if every penny were completely wasted, it still goes back into the economy to pay for something. It doesn't simply vanish.

You also make sweeping assumptions about government spending, but that's a different issue.




So you know of a government spending program that does not have a bureaucracy to support, administrative costs that draw money away from the productive use it pro ports to support and spend it on consolidating power in government?
Please feel free to offer up any example at all.

The point you ignore is that the money was already in the economy when it was taxed. Government simply shuffles the deck and then decides where the money "needs to be spent" as opposed to the person who earned the money deciding where the money "needs to be spent".

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:51:07 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Just go look at Michigan


You don't know any more about business than you do about politics.

There are three times as many registered vehicles in the U.S. as there are licensed drivers. The market is flooded, and has been for quite a while.

While interests were double digit, the Big Three sat on their cash dividends, while Germany, Sweden, and Japan invested for the long term. By the time the Big Three woke up, several companies were far ahead producing cars many Americans wanted. They have never recovered this market share.

Big Business in America has long focused--and continues to do so--on cutting costs. It's why they whine about the things they do. And they excel at cost cutting, no doubt. But this is at best a short term strategy and an investment in the future. Successful businesses--Apple is a good example--invest in making their own product obsolete to beat the competition to the next generation of product. Can't be done you say? Tell that to companies like Hyundai.

The Chinese will be next, selling cars at half the price of current models, unless other companies wake up and catch up. And somebody's going to figure out how to bring the cost of electric cars down, or how to extend their range beyond 100 miles without a backup gasoline engine. Or other innovations no one has thought of yet. Or the various GPS guided pilotless single person aircraft will see breakthroughs.

Any successful business looks ahead and changes with the market, even to changing product. American Big Business really, really sucks at this, clinging to past empires and past markets, blaming unions or government or taxes or whatnot, when the problem is they need to change and grow instead of whining at the public trough.

It has nothing to do with political party whatsoever. Business is business, and successful ones just adapt with the changes.

(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:51:24 AM   
cuckyman


Posts: 471
Joined: 3/25/2009
Status: offline 		The military was saddled with rusting ships.... no parts for aircraft...worn out everything when Carter was there..... Regan's military spending was NECESSARY to insure our very survival in the debacle of defeat in Viet Nam..... and the Star War threat was instrumental in th fall of the Soviet Union's collapse.... Odd how 'progressives' look at something real, and spin it into a fabrication.... MSNBC comes to mind in the present day.... maybe that is why no one is watching...and Obama's poll numbers are crashing....lies just don't sell anymore.....

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:52:40 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

The people that quadrupled the debt was the democrat congress that Regan inherited..... the GOP had not controlled the purse strings for over 40 years until 94, so to blame Regan for congressional spending is a LIE..... he had to make a deal with the devil to get his tax cuts thru....once implemented, revenues to the grovernment GREW...NO DECLINED....those deficits were the soul properity of an out of control DEMOCRAT CONGRESS.... spin it any way you wish, but the FACTS ARE THE FACTS....PERIOD....

The facts are it was a mixed Congress, and the facts are that these were programs Reagan pushed.

Sorry. No spin, just reality.

(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:54:27 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You miss the point.

The direction of the money changes, sure. But even if every penny were completely wasted, it still goes back into the economy to pay for something. It doesn't simply vanish.

You also make sweeping assumptions about government spending, but that's a different issue.




So you know of a government spending program that does not have a bureaucracy to support, administrative costs that draw money away from the productive use it pro ports to support and spend it on consolidating power in government?
Please feel free to offer up any example at all.

The point you ignore is that the money was already in the economy when it was taxed. Government simply shuffles the deck and then decides where the money "needs to be spent" as opposed to the person who earned the money deciding where the money "needs to be spent".


You again are missing the point.

To take your characterization, suppose every cent is spent on bureaucracy, complete waste.

It's still spent on salaries, office supplies, rents, etc., all going back into the economy.

You are arguing against taxes and government spending. That's a different issue. But spent money is still spent money.

I'm not ignoring your last point either. In fact, I made the same point up above. Go back and have a look.

It's still spent money, whatever fingerprints are last on the buck.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/17/2010 7:55:46 AM >

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:55:41 AM   
cuckyman


Posts: 471
Joined: 3/25/2009
Status: offline 		So with all this 'innovation' why can't Obama's political stooges move the job numbers?....hmmmmm? and I am one hell of a lot smarter than a stupid democrat.... Michigan's troubles begin and end with government policies and unions.... those companies could do anything they wished to build cars that would sell.... what drove them into bankruptcy was a non competitive labor force and crushing pernsion/health care costs..... If Michigan is so smart, how come the place is crumbling? ......

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:57:04 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I believe I just said there wasn't any innovation. I also said Michigan hasn't been very smart for a long time.

Sorry if I went too fast for you.

Again, not a party issue either. Republicans don't have any ideas either, other than the ones that helped get us here.

Remember McCain's campaign? He just flat out said those Detroit jobs were gone.

Now, investing in new green technology and retooling those plants is one current avenue being pursued. A few companies are already gearing up, in fact. Will it work? Who knows. But it beats sitting around and bitching.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/17/2010 7:59:29 AM >

(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 7:59:21 AM   
cuckyman


Posts: 471
Joined: 3/25/2009
Status: offline 		The congress during the Regan Administration was a Democrat CONTROLLED congress.... period..... and that is a FACT....

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/17/2010 8:00:41 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		No, it's not. 1981-1987, all mixed Congresses.

Democrats took control in 1987. Look it up.

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/17/2010 8:06:47 AM >

(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 120
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