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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 4:46:09 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

Flame on. I won't be reading it, so I don't care.

if my giveadamn wasnt broken I still wouldnt




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(in reply to Notsweet)
Profile   Post #: 221
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 4:52:07 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

Flame on. I won't be reading it, so I don't care.

if my giveadamn wasnt broken I still wouldnt





Some people like to yell and then when the person they are yelling at responds they do this:




_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 222
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 4:53:05 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


But I will also say that not all of those opposed to this are so because of political expediency, there are some people that genuinely feel their religion is threatened by someone else's... sad, but true


And savvy unscrupulous politicians are taking advantage of these gullible people and wiping their apprehensions beyond all reality to win elections... it is disgraceful and to me criminal.

But you must know that in many parts of the world Islam is challenging Christianity and not just with opposing theology but with physical force… There is reason for people to be apprehensive about the RADICAL faction in Islam… But not in this case.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/15/2010 5:11:11 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 223
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 5:02:55 PM   
Notsweet


Posts: 873
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		Decided hit and run wasn't a nice thing to do. And since you didn't flame me...

No, I don't think opposing it is a political stastement so much as it's people who were badly hurt having the excuse for the attack rubbed in their faces. See, the group who did the attack was screaming "Allah Akbar" and the group with which they were affiliated, and who take "credit" say that they're doing this for their religion. And now they are rubbing it in the faces of the people who suffered.

Shall we open a biergarten next to Auschwitz? Erect a statue of the National Guard at Kent State? Maybe we can put up a statue over at VA Tech's library and dorm to mark the accomplishments of Asian students?

The point is, it's in really bad form. And in a place where people can't wait to scream "thought crime," having those same people (who largely mock religion) to stand up to defend freedom of religion is fucking laughable. But so is having a president who spits on the constitution, then orates how important it is--when it serves himself.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 224
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 5:04:08 PM   
Notsweet


Posts: 873
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

Flame on. I won't be reading it, so I don't care.

if my giveadamn wasnt broken I still wouldnt





Some people like to yell and then when the person they are yelling at responds they do this:





Oooops, guess I should have kept reading before I assumed that you were being nice.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 5:10:44 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Shall we open a biergarten next to Auschwitz? Erect a statue of the National Guard at Kent State? Maybe we can put up a statue over at VA Tech's library and dorm to mark the accomplishments of Asian students?


Kent State is public property, so if they wanted to make a memorial to the National Guard there... fine by me.

Same response for VA Tech as it applied to Kent State


I do not know what Germany's laws are, so I have no comment on that...

This is private land, the owners of this land are building a private place of worship. Both of these concepts are dearly held American values... the right to own property and the right to religious freedom.

quote:

The point is, it's in really bad form. And in a place where people can't wait to scream "thought crime," having those same people (who largely mock religion) to stand up to defend freedom of religion is fucking laughable. But so is having a president who spits on the constitution, then orates how important it is--when it serves himself.


Who are these "religion mockers"? How do they "mock religion"?

Barrack Obama is a Christian, BTW...How has he "spit on the constitution"? And how is your advocating for the denial of religious freedom and private property rights not spitting on it?



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Notsweet)
Profile   Post #: 226
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 5:12:10 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

Flame on. I won't be reading it, so I don't care.

if my giveadamn wasnt broken I still wouldnt





Some people like to yell and then when the person they are yelling at responds they do this:





Oooops, guess I should have kept reading before I assumed that you were being nice.


I guess you should haven't done a driveby style post

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Notsweet)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 5:29:02 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Three words

Freedom of Religion

You know, that part of the constitution that comes before the second amendment



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 7:07:07 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

quote:

Gene Tibbets, whose deceased father, Brig. Gen. Paul Tibbets, piloted the Enola Gay, said that the decision to attend the ceremony amounted to an unspoken apology,“It's making the Japanese look like they're the poor people, like they didn't do anything,” he told Fox News this week. “They hit Pearl Harbor, they struck us.  We didn't slaughter the Japanese. We stopped the war.”


Actually both are true, they did slaughter Japanese pepole, most of them innocent civilians, women and children. They where burned to ash where they stood, thousands died, many more died of radiation portioning. It was slaughter. It also stopped the war, and it might have been a necessary strike to protect the West against Nazi Germany, but it was still slaughter.

quote:

I can understand the sentiment, however..then, it was a race of people, not their chosen faith and it wasn't a terrorist attack, we didn't make the first strike.


USA have meddled in the affairs of the Muslim world. While nothing justifies killing innocent civilians the attacks where hardly unmotivated. War hero or terrorist depend on witch eyes you see with. There are many Japanese that see Americans as terrorists for dropping the bombs, you see the bombers as war heroes. Now yes the situation is different however it was just a matter of time before something happened, allot of pepole are rather angry about USA meddling in the affairs of other nations.

quote:

I do however, feel the voices of people who lost family menbers should be heard.  I can't believe we are so callous to the remains of american citizens and  how it is affecting their families.   Whats next, bulldozing the head stones at Arlington Memorial Cemetary and telling everyone, "we are doing this to create world peace"?


What about the families of the Muslims that died at 9/11. Refusing the building of the Mosque says to them that America holds them and their faith responsible for the tragedy, they are so tainted that their religion can not have a religious center in the vicinity of where it happened. Do you not think that hurt those families? Or is it only the non Muslim's in this that should be considered, the grief of the Muslims that lost family do not matter?

I wish you well


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(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 8:10:45 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

It have never occurred to you that they might be building their religions center as a sign of support for the victims and their families. That the 9/11 attacks is a appealing to most Muslims as it is to other Americans and that they wish to build a place of worship nearby to honor those that died and as a testament to peace against violence?


three words:

No. Cordoba. Mosque.


Three words

Freedom of Religion


You know, that part of the constitution that comes before the second amendment

I never meant to deny that they have the right to build it.
I said: No, It have never occurred to you that they might be building their religions center as a sign of support for the victims and their families.
I said: " Cordoba. Mosque." because that choice of names tells any thinking person all they need to know about the decision to locate on this particular site; it is not to honor the dead generally but to honor the hijackers and their assault upon decency and humanity. Islam is very proficient at honoring those kinds of things, and sometimes in this specific manner.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 8:14:22 PM   
truckinslave


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Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Yes, exactly, as the very business of polling unidentified and there unaccountable people is at best a complete waste of time and money. For polls to mean something, then those polled should be identifiable and there accountable as otherwise it is open to too much abuse


As is so often the case, you have it exactly backwards.
Anonymity protects honesty; in fact in many cases it allows honesty.

Care to discuss the secret ballot?

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/15/2010 8:20:59 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

The point is, it's in really bad form.


there is no depth to which some people will not sink in order to defend one particular organization that is violently homophobic, extremely intolerant, blatantly sexist, and undeniably violent.

It is, in my neither humble nor professional opinion, a manifestation of the self-loathing and guilt that infects so much kneejerk liberalism, and it is quite remarkable in its depth and intensity.

They will tell you that to be offended by this slap in the face is the fault of the one offended. Truly, mind-bogglingly remarkable.

(in reply to Notsweet)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 11:11:19 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

This showed up on a friends Facebook this morning.  Good, bad or ugly, it captures my thoughts on this subject better than I could ever say my self.


"After talking with a very good buddy, here's our conclusions about the Mosque @ Ground Zero - it is the same as putting a Shinto Temple by the USS Arizona Memorial, a KKK Meeting house near MLK's tombstone in Atlanta or a US Calvary Memorial @ Wounded Knee! Now, who doesn't understand the emotions that are reaching a b...oiling point by this insensitivity! Dumbshits - that's who's supporting this Mosque - get a clue"



I do believe that "stone mountain" is in atlanta...so you seem to be saying that those who support mlk and his beliefs are being terribly insensitive to the kkk
The last time I was in okinawa the shrines to the japanese dead outnumbered the ones to the marine dead by a factor of about 100 to 1.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 11:17:00 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

The point is, it's in really bad form.


there is no depth to which some people will not sink in order to defend one particular organization that is violently homophobic, extremely intolerant, blatantly sexist, and undeniably violent.

Like the u.s. military? Why do you hate america?

It is, in my neither humble nor professional opinion,

English not your long suit here

a manifestation of the self-loathing and guilt that infects so much kneejerk liberalism, and it is quite remarkable in its depth and intensity.

Someone has learned a new catch word in his first psych class..."self loathing" Perhaps now that you have used it in a sentence you might actually look up what it means so you might use it properly.

They will tell you that to be offended by this slap in the face is the fault of the one offended. Truly, mind-bogglingly remarkable.

You seem to see offense where you wish to and no where else.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 11:32:53 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

. It isn't visible in any way from Ground Zero.



Wanna bet?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 11:38:55 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Use your common sense. No one would have said a word if the Mosque had been built before 9/11. Which explains why the Pentagon probably has a Mosque in it. 9/11 is a sacred site now, and it is completely disrespectful to build a mosque that looks down on this sacred site. Now if it were a 2 story Mosque, I doubt anyone would say a word, but this Mosque is of such magnitude that it seems obvious to people with common sense that it is purposely making a statement. Think about it. The Twin towers a symbol to America's capitalism is destroyed. But a Massive Mosque, looking down on the site will now be the sacred site.


I highlighted that statement.  The Mosque in the Pentagon was built less than a month after 9\11.  Kinda renders your point mute doesn't it?



There is no mosque in the Pentagon.

(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 11:45:32 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


Show me where the Constitution covers zoning.



It doesnt. And the Court has ruled that zoning that bans non-commerical property,including churches, is fine. So zone the area for commerical only. Done.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 11:49:01 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Really it would be uproariously funny were it not so sad.


Which is why Stephen Colbert and John Stewart are doing so well


Well????? ROFL

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 11:50:14 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

It have never occurred to you that they might be building their religions center as a sign of support for the victims and their families. That the 9/11 attacks is a appealing to most Muslims as it is to other Americans and that they wish to build a place of worship nearby to honor those that died and as a testament to peace against violence?


three words:

No. Cordoba. Mosque.


Three words

Freedom of Religion


You know, that part of the constitution that comes before the second amendment

I never meant to deny that they have the right to build it.
I said: No, It have never occurred to you that they might be building their religions center as a sign of support for the victims and their families.
I said: " Cordoba. Mosque." because that choice of names tells any thinking person all they need to know about the decision to locate on this particular site; it is not to honor the dead generally but to honor the hijackers and their assault upon decency and humanity. Islam is very proficient at honoring those kinds of things, and sometimes in this specific manner.


I know. They didn't help their cause by their choice of names. Regardless of intent, there will always be those who read into it that the mosque honors the attack, if for no other reason, than the name itself.

One thing I do know is the political side of the democratic party is backing away from outright support. They're following polls that suggest taking too active a stance in this debate could backfire politically. Obama's "clear" support was tempered soon after it was issued by the president coming across with something like he wasn't standing behind the wisdom of its placement, but more so the right to place it there.

The right has never been in question.

The wisdom has always been and it is clear it does not have popular support. It isn't about race either as so many like to suggest. If everyone had skin like cellophane, this debate would still rage. It is no different than the McVeigh family deciding to build a church next to the building in Oklahoma City that he bombed, calling it the Timothy McVeigh Center, and telling everyone they were going to promote tolerance.

One thing I bet Republican strategists love though, and that's the lefter leaning elements of the democratic party pinging on their representatives to support the mosque. They have to. It basically assures votes migrating their way among the rather large majorities in every poll who do not want this mosque near ground zero.

_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 11:54:46 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Have you ever had a Muslim friend? I have several



"Some of my friends are [black][gay][Muslim][quadruple amputees]"

BFD.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 240
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