RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 7:17:31 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

I agree Elisabella. I was attempting rhetorical sarcasm.

Wow it's sort of sad how believable that was.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 7:22:57 PM

thatsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
....

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

-- Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
...

I love this poem. It is simple and yet powerful enough to make you value freedoms of other people when you see it in its original context of Nazi Germany.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 7:36:24 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
Got Steel, yet in many places burning a cross on Private property is illegal. Because of the message it sends.

Last I heard burning crosses on your own property is legal. Threatening other people not so much. It's the threatening others with violence in conjunction with setting fires on property that doesn't belong to you that's been the issue there. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=01-1107

You're making a bad comparison here because the displays which were rendered illegal weren't done so because they were offensive. It's still completely legal to burn a cross for the purpose of being offensive. It's threats and intimidation that aren't covered by the first amendment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
Just pointing out that your blanket support or oppose it diatribe was nonsense.

Please do so, I'd love to hear some opposition that wasn't a red herring. I'm still waiting for you to grasp that this isn't a free speech issue and that your entire rebuttal has been faulty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
And naming it after a mosque built in Europe on the grounds of a torn down Catherdral is a pretty offensive message to millions. Even the leaders realised it and changed the name.

I'm sure it's offensive to plenty of people, by the way so is Christmas. That's the thing about the freedom of religion, it exists specifically to protect religions that people find offensive.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 7:42:26 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

So right and wrong have no place in your political world?

There is only the party? As long as the party is victorious it is ok?

Of course not.

But there is the legal right/wrong and the moral right/wrong.
They have the legal right to build there.
But it is morally wrong not to condemn the CORDOBA mosque as anything but giving America the Islamic finger, and America knows it.

"During the caliphate apogee (1000 AD), Córdoba had a population of roughly 400,000 inhabitants,[4] though estimates range between 250,000 and 500,000. In the 10th-11th centuries Córdoba was one of the most advanced cities in the world, as well as a great cultural, political, financial and economic centre. The Great Mosque of Córdoba dates back to this time; under caliph Al-Hakam II Córdoba received what was then the largest library in the world, housing from 400,000 to 1,000,000 volumes."

Yep, that Cordoba must have been one Moorish slum.

You don't suppose the naming of the community center reflected some bit of cultural pride rather than being a sinister attempt to humiliate the West? Oh, not likely, eh?

Cordoba 11th Century

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 8:25:22 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

What the fuck?

He can come out and support a Mosque near the WTC site but he can't come out and support gay marriage?

I'm done.

boi

I totally agree with you on this one!

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/16/2010 8:26:23 PM >

_____________________________

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"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 8:40:31 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

What the fuck?

He can come out and support a Mosque near the WTC site but he can't come out and support gay marriage?

I'm done.

boi

I totally agree with you on this one!

Don't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of that agreement, like the "mosque" isn't a "mosque" and it is 5 BLOCKS away from Ground Zero in an area that tourists never even go to

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 8:51:56 PM

taniatv

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Cordoba House....

Head In The Sand 101

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 8:56:20 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: taniatv

Cordoba House....

Head In The Sand 101

Freedom of Religion

It is easy to say that you are for rights, it is really hard to actually put that into practice... which is why the Founders put it in the constitution. It isn't up for debate.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:05:34 PM

taniatv

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Freedom of Religion or in this case way to be insensitive.

Not disputing their right to build just questioning their indifference to people's feelings.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:37:02 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: taniatv

Freedom of Religion or in this case way to be insensitive.

Not disputing their right to build just questioning their indifference to people's feelings.

Muslims are people too and most of them have feelings of their own.

I always get annoyed with people who think that their own special feelings are somehow superior to the worthless "feelings" of those they're arguing with.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:38:51 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It is easy to say that you are for rights, it is really hard to actually put that into practice... which is why the Founders put it in the constitution. It isn't up for debate.

Ya know what Julia...

You are a very lucky woman that the overwhemling majority of lawmakers in the United States are Christian, even lip service Christans and Jews.

If ever that changed to Islam, most of the people defending Muslim's rights on this thread would be stoned to death and/or imprisoned.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:39:46 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

I always get annoyed with people who think that their own special feelings are somehow superior to the worthless "feelings" of those they're arguing with.

Elisabella... sometimes you just rock with your concise and to the point way of putting things... even when I disagree with you, you still have a way of putting things that I really value on this forum

Please don't get bored with it and go away

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:41:52 PM

Musicmystery

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Uh-huh.

At least you're no longer pretending to value the Constitution.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:45:05 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I always get annoyed with people who think that their own special feelings are somehow superior to the worthless "feelings" of those they're arguing with.

Elisabella... sometimes you just rock with your concise and to the point way of putting things... even when I disagree with you, you still have a way of putting things that I really value on this forum

Please don't get bored with it and go away

Haha thanks hon <3

Even when I get bored with it I always come back. It's this weird blend of sadism and masochism I have.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:46:39 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Haha thanks hon <3

Even when I get bored with it I always come back. It's this weird blend of sadism and masochism I have.

Perhaps there is just a tiny seed of emotional sadist in me? I would never have thought it...but... hmmmmm... perhaps....

_____________________________

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:53:07 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Uh-huh.

At least you're no longer pretending to value the Constitution.

???

What are you talking about?

I think I made it crystal clear early on in this post that the owners of that property have every right to build a mosque and cultural center there.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:54:04 PM

MissAsylum

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while i agree, i think the only religious that are really offensive are ones that preach hate. and as much as the context of burning a cross is offensive, its legal, just the same as a nativity scene on somebody's lawn. But it would be different if somebody were to threaten you with a baby jesus.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:55:30 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

But it would be different if somebody were to threaten you with a baby jesus.

Pat Robertson threatens people with Jesus all the time

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 9:57:35 PM

FatDomDaddy

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It's legal to burn one, if you have a permit and on its on your own proprety. It is absolulely NOT legal to burn one on another's property without their consent or to burn it if the local zoning ordinances do not allow it.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/16/2010 10:02:24 PM

FatDomDaddy

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A burning Cross is a symbol of light and hope throughout most of the Christian World. Only in the United States where the KKK stole the imagery for their own false witness is it seen as a symbol of hate.

I hope one day the Christians of all colors take back that symbol and restore it to its rightful place.

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