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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:27:43 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

If she has every intention of raising the kids, why risk another eclamptic  pregnancy?


Some people do not believe in birth control. I do not know their religious beliefs, but if they are like John Ashcroft (for example) they may believe it is in God's hands... and that belief should be respected. It is not like they are violent religious terrorists or something.

Women have high risk pregnancies every day. It is very common for women in their late 40s to have kids, if it is okay for older women to take on this increased risk to themselves and their unborn, why is it wrong for her? Only because she has so many kids she will leave behind?

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:28:04 PM   
slaveluci


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~Fast Reply~
I don't believe in labeling people "freaks" simply because they want things different from what I want (or what society as a whole seems to want).

I don't believe the government (or society in general) has any right to invade people's lives to the point of telling them how many children they can and cannot have.

I think the Duggar's can do as they choose as long as they aren't abusing and/or neglecting their children.

Now...all that said....I also think that it is very selfish and unfair of them to keep reproducing like they are. It's selfish in a broad sense (overpopulation) and in a very literal sense as far as the time spent with all the other children they already have. When there's one child and another is born, the first loses some of the time and special attention. When there's 19 or 20 others, imagine how much focus and specific attention one gets. Not much and I personally find that sad. It will be interesting when the older ones grow up and begin to share their feelings about how it was coming up in the Duggar household. Really, aren't THEIR opinions and feelings the only important ones here?

Just because they CAN have that many children doesn't mean they should. Having the RIGHT to do something doesn't make it sensible.

luci



< Message edited by slaveluci -- 8/15/2010 12:29:43 PM >


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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:35:03 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Women have high risk pregnancies every day. It is very common for women in their late 40s to have kids, if it is okay for older women to take on this increased risk to themselves and their unborn, why is it wrong for her? Only because she has so many kids she will leave behind?
As a mom...my first obligation is to the kids i  already have.

The odds of a healthy pregnancy are not in her favor, considering her age (women over 40 have a 10 or 15% increased risk of an eclamptic pregnancy) and the fact that she already had one eclamptic pregnancy increases her risk by another 25%. She has nearly a 40% chance of eclampsia. Those are not winning odds.

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:39:25 PM   
DaddysInkedSlut


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I am curious, I know the Duggers have other income besides the show but realistically could they provide for all 19 children as they do without the show?

If they can finacially support their children without the show then I don't see an issue.

If they can give each child the physical,mental and emotional attention they need I personally don't have an issue.

I have a BIGGER issue with the idea that govenment has a right to dictate who has children and how many children they have. It reminds me of a movie in the 90's, where if you had more children than the allowed number both spouses went to prison. Is that really where we as a society is headed? Are we going to start forcing people to abort children? Are we going to start killing the elderly? Are going to start forcing people to get fixed?

Then are we going to start dictating people's religious believes? Are we going to force people to conform to the "norm" if so what steps are we going to take?

< Message edited by DaddysInkedSlut -- 8/15/2010 12:49:17 PM >


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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:46:00 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Women have high risk pregnancies every day. It is very common for women in their late 40s to have kids, if it is okay for older women to take on this increased risk to themselves and their unborn, why is it wrong for her? Only because she has so many kids she will leave behind?
As a mom...my first obligation is to the kids i  already have.

The odds of a healthy pregnancy are not in her favor, considering her age (women over 40 have a 10 or 15% increased risk of an eclamptic pregnancy) and the fact that she already had one eclamptic pregnancy increases her risk by another 25%. She has nearly a 40% chance of eclampsia. Those are not winning odds.


So, if a woman in her 40s with a health condition gets pregnant and she had one preexisting child, would that make the decision better?

Here if the thing, I looked up eclampsia, and if a woman is predisposed to this condition it is treatable.

quote:

Prevention

Detection and management of preeclampsia is critical to reduce the risk of eclampsia. Appropriate management of patients with preeclampsia generally involves the use of magnesium sulfate as an agent to prevent convulsions, and thus preventing eclampsia.
[edit]Treatment

The treatment of eclampsia requires prompt intervention and aims to prevent further convulsions, control the elevated blood pressure and deliver the fetus.
[edit]Prevention of convulsions
Prevention of seizure convulsion is usually done using magnesium sulfate.[11] The idea to use Mg2+ for the management of eclamptogenic toxemia dates from before 1955 when it was tested and published—the serum Mg2+ therapeutic range for the prevention of the eclampsic uterine contractions is still considered: 4.0-7.0 mEq/L[12]. As per Lu and Nightingale [13], serum Mg2+ concentrations associated with maternal toxicity (also neonate depression or hypotonia and low Apgar scores) are:
7.0–10.0 mEq/L - loss of patellar reflex
10.0–13.0 mEq/L - respiratory depression
15.0–25.0 mEq/L - altered atrioventricular conduction and (further) complete heart block
>25.0 mEq/L - cardiac arrest
Even with therapeutic serum Mg2+ concentrations, recurrent convulsions and seizures may occur—patients would receive additional MgSO4 but under close monitoring for respiratory, cardiac and neurological depression: 4–6 g loading dose in 100 mL IV fluid over 15–20 min., then 2 g/hr as a continuous infusion[3]. If high Mg2+ concentrations fail to take effect, IV anticonvulsants will ease patient intubation and mechanical ventilation as adjuvants against the eclamptic convulsions (plus the hypermagnesemic thoracic muscle paralysis). Recently the long-term implications of the magnesium sulfate therapies were evaluated by the international MAGPIE study.[14]




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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:48:12 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut

I know the Duggers have other income besides the show but realistically could they provide for all 19 children as they do without the show?




Does it matter?

I really am not in favor of their decision to be honest.. But for some reason I find the judgment against them pretty silly. It is their life, they have the freedom to live it the way they would like whether any of us approve of it or not as long as they are not breaking any laws. I don't watch their show, so wtf do I care about it?

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:51:12 PM   
DaddysInkedSlut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut

I know the Duggers have other income besides the show but realistically could they provide for all 19 children as they do without the show?




Does it matter?

I really am not in favor of their decision to be honest.. But for some reason I find the judgment against them pretty silly. It is their life, they have the freedom to live it the way they would like whether any of us approve of it or not as long as they are not breaking any laws. I don't watch their show, so wtf do I care about it?


As a parent it would matter to ME if I were them. Simply because if they are relying on the show for their primary income what happens when / if the show is cancelled? What would happen to those children? Could they provide for them?

I actually didn't make any judgement towards them, I asked a simple and honest question out of concern for the children.

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:52:27 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


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Yup.
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania



Yeah, from my posting history I suppose you can tell I wouldn't advocate such a thing


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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:54:15 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Here if the thing, I looked up eclampsia, and if a woman is predisposed to this condition it is treatable.
the treatment for eclampsia is delivering the baby, viable or not, and hoping mom survives.

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:55:57 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

So, if a woman in her 40s with a health condition gets pregnant and she had one preexisting child, would that make the decision better?
what the hell is a preexisting child? 

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 12:58:43 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


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Some of the older ones have already  been asked what they think and feel about such a large family, and they've said it's ok, or some said it's great they like it.

Of course they may just feel they have to say that, at the time of asking, but I really think that most the older ones like it, at least in someways.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
It will be interesting when the older ones grow up and begin to share their feelings about how it was coming up in the Duggar household. Really, aren't THEIR opinions and feelings the only important ones here?


luci




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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:02:50 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut

I know the Duggers have other income besides the show but realistically could they provide for all 19 children as they do without the show?




Does it matter?

I really am not in favor of their decision to be honest.. But for some reason I find the judgment against them pretty silly. It is their life, they have the freedom to live it the way they would like whether any of us approve of it or not as long as they are not breaking any laws. I don't watch their show, so wtf do I care about it?


As a parent it would matter to ME if I were them. Simply because if they are relying on the show for their primary income what happens when / if the show is cancelled? What would happen to those children? Could they provide for them?

I actually didn't make any judgement towards them, I asked a simple and honest question out of concern for the children.


From what others have posted that watch the show, they are frugal, and they were self supporting before the show. Why would that change if the show was cancelled...

I looked up the age of their kids, 4 are already adults, and within 5 years 8 of them will be...This means that their kids are aging faster than she is reproducing them, that ought to free up some funds...lol


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/15/2010 1:03:35 PM >


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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:05:49 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

So, if a woman in her 40s with a health condition gets pregnant and she had one preexisting child, would that make the decision better?
what the hell is a preexisting child? 


The children they already have, you know, the ones that preexisted before the current pregnancy... I wonder, did you really not understand what I posted, or are you just making a point.

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:06:50 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Here if the thing, I looked up eclampsia, and if a woman is predisposed to this condition it is treatable.
the treatment for eclampsia is delivering the baby, viable or not, and hoping mom survives.


There was a list of medical procedures and treatments to help women with this condition....

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:11:44 PM   
thornhappy


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Looks like they got help on the house:
The painting, decorating, furnishings, appliances and other finishing touches, such as a stocked pantry, were provided by Discovery Networks and corporate sponsors as part of the one-hour television special.

I haven't seen anything that shows they received government assistance.  IIRC, they also sell videos of their recipes, etc.

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:13:56 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Here if the thing, I looked up eclampsia, and if a woman is predisposed to this condition it is treatable.
the treatment for eclampsia is delivering the baby, viable or not, and hoping mom survives.


There was a list of medical procedures and treatments to help women with this condition....
are you confusing preeclampsia with eclampsia?

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:16:34 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Looks like they got help on the house:
The painting, decorating, furnishings, appliances and other finishing touches, such as a stocked pantry, were provided by Discovery Networks and corporate sponsors as part of the one-hour television special.

I haven't seen anything that shows they received government assistance.  IIRC, they also sell videos of their recipes, etc.

their home has the tax exempt status of a church, because services are held every Sunday.

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:30:41 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Here if the thing, I looked up eclampsia, and if a woman is predisposed to this condition it is treatable.
the treatment for eclampsia is delivering the baby, viable or not, and hoping mom survives.


There was a list of medical procedures and treatments to help women with this condition....
are you confusing preeclampsia with eclampsia?


If someone is known to be predisposed to eclampsia, they can be given preventative treatment.

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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:41:17 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Here if the thing, I looked up eclampsia, and if a woman is predisposed to this condition it is treatable.
the treatment for eclampsia is delivering the baby, viable or not, and hoping mom survives.


There was a list of medical procedures and treatments to help women with this condition....
are you confusing preeclampsia with eclampsia?


If someone is known to be predisposed to eclampsia, they can be given preventative treatment.
the only treatment for eclampsia is to deliver the baby. If preventive measures are taken, then the mother was *get ready for it...here it comes...* PREVENTED from having it


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RE: they want ANOTHER baby? - 8/15/2010 1:50:43 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

the only treatment for eclampsia is to deliver the baby. If preventive measures are taken, then the mother was *get ready for it...here it comes...* PREVENTED from having it


Here is the point, there is treatment for Mrs Duggar to help her with this increased risk

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Profile   Post #: 100
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