RE: Hoarders and Obsessed

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Lucienne -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 7:51:07 AM)
This is a very touchy subject for me. Watching a show like that would be torture to me. And the thought of other people watching it and getting off on a sense of revulsion makes me want to cry. It's just unspeakably cruel. I am relieved to know that such shows do serve to enlighten some to the fact that what they are seeing is an illness, but there must be a better way to educate than this.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:04:10 AM)
Yes. it is sensible, but she took it to an extreme lol. She'd have litter ally 200 cans of one thing and 200 cans of another thing, and then a whole garage just full of canned goods. She had enough food to open a small grocery store. quote: ORIGINAL: Rule That seems eminently sensible. Mormons are encouraged to have food for one year in their home. I cannot hoard food: I do not have the room for it. Besides, my diet is limited to yoghurt, and that keeps for three days at most without refridgeration.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:11:45 AM)
It's not non consensual if the people involved who are the ones getting the intervention agree to be on tv. They knew broadcasting their issues for all the world to see would have consequences, they're not children, they're not naive, they're fully aware fully participating people who choose to air their personal business all over the airwaves. If they didn't consent to it, the show wouldn't be televised with them in it. I have not seen any one on these shows who's not capable mentally to consent to the filming and airing of these shows. I would like to hope there'd be some legal protection or recourse against them filming these shows if the people that are the "star" of it are incapable of consenting to the show. quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I hate most reality tv and most especially those shows like the described, that, to me, take advantage of people to make money. There is one about drug and/or alcohol interventions, I've seen advertised, that is similar. It makes me sick to my stomach that these people are being exploited so horribly. In my mind, it's the worst form of nonconsensual humiliation I've ever seen.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:25:34 AM)
I watch the freak shows--the birth defect ones--to connect with my fellow freaks, and as a way of checking myself. Those shows (like the ones about Julianna and the sweet mermaid girl) are not exploiting, though they can be maudlin. Shows that display the compulsive horror of being surrounded by GARBAGE and being unable to throw it out? How can a person have anything but sympathy for someone so afflicted? That kind of ailment is a deep seated thing, and they are not being helped by being displayed on television.

LaTigresse -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:25:35 AM)
It is my personal opinion that a mentally ill ( and that is what these people are ) person, is not in the right mind to give consent. Hence my view that it is nonconsensual.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:31:26 AM)
I admit sometimes I wanna hang some of them by their toes, and am not sympathetic to them. But that's usually when their problems are hurting their children. There was one episode where a 9 year old believed that if he didn't clean house an keep the house clean, which is an impossible job for a child in that situation, that Daddy would try to kill himself a gain, since his father tried to overdose by drinking a whole bottle of vodka, I think it was. So this poor little boy was carrying the "weight of the world" on his little shoulders, because of his dad's ass shattery. That really makes me mad and I want to smack the shit out of them and say LOOK AT WHAT YOUR DOING TO YOUR KID. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND GET HIM THERAPY, AN GET YOURSELF SOME TOO. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Shows that display the compulsive horror of being surrounded by GARBAGE and being unable to throw it out? How can a person have anything but sympathy for someone so afflicted? That kind of ailment is a deep seated thing, and they are not being helped by being displayed on television.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:34:51 AM)
And if the producers of the show thought that, the show wouldn't happen. Personal rights advocates or the law would step in. As someone with mental illnesses, and yes I am apparently also a slight hoarder, I, n my therapist believes, I do not believe being mentally ill, depending on the mental illness, automatically makes you incapable of consenting to something or comprehending what you're doing. Or the outcome of what you're doing and consenting. quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse It is my personal opinion that a mentally ill ( and that is what these people are ) person, is not in the right mind to give consent. Hence my view that it is nonconsensual.

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:40:38 AM)
quote: hoarders from my understanding can't bear to get rid of their stuff because they're afraid something bad will happen, and usually because they've gone through a trauma. I have had loved ones with this issue, but I did not realize they had it until I saw this show. I was ignorant about it. There are a lot of people who are ignorant about these mental issues that might learn about how to help someone they love by watching a show like this

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:43:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne This is a very touchy subject for me. Watching a show like that would be torture to me. And the thought of other people watching it and getting off on a sense of revulsion makes me want to cry. It's just unspeakably cruel. I am relieved to know that such shows do serve to enlighten some to the fact that what they are seeing is an illness, but there must be a better way to educate than this. I think that in order to educate it is necessary to see the process people undergo to manage their condition. I find that show "Hoarders" to be sensationalism". The other one, "Hoarders: Buried Alive", follows people through therapy and the healing process of their families, etc.... I don't watch "Hoarders" because it is exploitive

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:47:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse It is my personal opinion that a mentally ill ( and that is what these people are ) person, is not in the right mind to give consent. Hence my view that it is nonconsensual. These are anxiety disorders. I suppose you could say all the years of my life I struggled with anxiety I was unfit to consent to anything, I reject that strongly. It seems to me that you could learn a thing or two about people who hoard and who have OCD before posting about it. Anxiety manifests itself in weird and troubling ways, but it does not make those who suffer from it brain damaged simpletons who do not know what they are doing.

Lucienne -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 9:56:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom And if the producers of the show thought that, the show wouldn't happen. Personal rights advocates or the law would step in. As someone with mental illnesses, and yes I am apparently also a slight hoarder, I, n my therapist believes, I do not believe being mentally ill, depending on the mental illness, automatically makes you incapable of consenting to something or comprehending what you're doing. Or the outcome of what you're doing and consenting. quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse It is my personal opinion that a mentally ill ( and that is what these people are ) person, is not in the right mind to give consent. Hence my view that it is nonconsensual. I started to respond to an earlier Toppingfrmbottom post but got angry and decided to leave it alone. I'm going to take a deep breath here and offer what I think are some important clarifications. The people who appear on these shows are not consenting to being humiliated. The shows, as far as I can tell, are presented to these people as a way to get help. I imagine the producers get the names of many of these people via referrals from concerned loved ones. And a great deal of effort is made to convince the "stars" that they will be dealt with respectfully, not humiliated. I also find it hard to imagine that these "stars" are unaware that their living conditions are looked upon with disgust by many people and that they do feel vulnerable to humiliation by exposing themselves. This is the point at which my concern is really more about the coercive forces in play, which I think is what LaTigresse was touching on and what I know Toppingfrmbottom {bites tongue} is being dismissive of. I just wanted to point that out before the debate between you to slips off into "capacity to consent" issues.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 10:01:00 AM)
~fr~ I do think that the folks on the shows know that something is WRONG, and that most people do not live as they do. I just don't think that these shows are a way to get help for them. Hoarding is a serious problem, whether you are hoarding trash, newspapers, clothing, or companion animals. These folks need more than a dumpster sweeping through, or someone saying Here, we'll show you to America. LaT, we've been on opposite sides of the fence regarding health stuff before. I am not sure why you can't put yourself in the position of those of us who have struggles every day of our lives, but it seems like you can't. Having a mental health issue in one area doesn't make you incompetent in others.

windchymes -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 10:41:30 AM)
Good thread, julia :) I watched "Buried Alive" for the first time last weekend, and, while I was appalled by the living conditions and the seeming oblivion the residents had for the "mess", I found myself really intrigued by how "normal" (for lack of a better word) most of them appeared, younger guy or girl-"next-door" types. It was shocking. The common denominator I found in most of them was that they hadn't always lived like that, but they all had experiensome kind of loss or traumatic event in their life, whether it was a losing their spouse or child or parent, or losing their home in hurricane Katrina. Keeping all the junk, even if it meant having to climb over piles of it to get to the next room and sleeping on a blanket in the corner because they can't get to their bed, gave them some kind of security and ability to survive the next day. I was also fascinated by the insights into their psyche's, the reasons behind how they needed to live, and also by the patience of the "professional organizers" who help them reclaim their homes, even if it's only one box at a time. And also how difficult it is for the hoarder to let go of things that we think of as trash. They see it as something they might need someday.....protection from another painful event, maybe?

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 10:46:43 AM)
Lucien, I understand getting angry and having to step away, I've been ready to reply to something that fired me off, or just rubbed me the wrong way an had to mentally say, no no, just close your browser WALK AWAY. And I hope you know when I said "stars" it was for a lack of a better word for the ones who're the center of the show. And no I'd never be so crass as to say you aired it you consented to people making fun of you. Some people, this show is likely the only way they'll ever get help. I could of said subject, however. quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne [ I started to respond to an earlier Toppingfrmbottom post but got angry and decided to leave it alone. I'm going to take a deep breath here and offer what I think are some important clarifications. The people who appear on these shows are not consenting to being humiliated. The shows, as far as I can tell, are presented to these people as a way to get help. I imagine the producers get the names of many of these people via referrals from concerned loved ones. And a great deal of effort is made to convince the "stars" that they will be dealt with respectfully, not humiliated. I also find it hard to imagine that these "stars" are unaware that their living conditions are looked upon with disgust by many people and that they do feel vulnerable to humiliation by exposing themselves. This is the point at which my concern is really more about the coercive forces in play, which I think is what LaTigresse was touching on and what I know Toppingfrmbottom {bites tongue} is being dismissive of. I just wanted to point that out before the debate between you to slips off into "capacity to consent" issues.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 10:50:45 AM)
I am the owner of too many things. My stuff is like my link, my wall, the way I keep myself attached to the world. I am not a hoarder, but I worry that it could happen, that I will be the crazy guinea pig lady, surrounded by pig cages (which will be immaculate, thank you) and pizza boxes. Andy Warhol was a shopping fiend, and he would go buying bakelite or whatever, then put the bag in a room and forget about it utterly. The folks who cleaned his place after he died were astounded. Every time we "run across" something that was put away and then left our brains, I freak out a little. So I worry when I see "regular folks" going to work and coming home to bag lady houses.

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 10:57:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: windchymes Good thread, julia :) I watched "Buried Alive" for the first time last weekend, and, while I was appalled by the living conditions and the seeming oblivion the residents had for the "mess", I found myself really intrigued by how "normal" (for lack of a better word) most of them appeared, younger guy or girl-"next-door" types. It was shocking. The common denominator I found in most of them was that they hadn't always lived like that, but they all had experiensome kind of loss or traumatic event in their life, whether it was a losing their spouse or child or parent, or losing their home in hurricane Katrina. Keeping all the junk, even if it meant having to climb over piles of it to get to the next room and sleeping on a blanket in the corner because they can't get to their bed, gave them some kind of security and ability to survive the next day. I was also fascinated by the insights into their psyche's, the reasons behind how they needed to live, and also by the patience of the "professional organizers" who help them reclaim their homes, even if it's only one box at a time. And also how difficult it is for the hoarder to let go of things that we think of as trash. They see it as something they might need someday.....protection from another painful event, maybe? I think the Buried Alive show has more value than the other one. They really show how people get to that place, instead of judging them you get to have some sympathy for their plight

windchymes -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 10:58:11 AM)
I guess I'm an anti-hoarder, lol. My grandmother and my mother were semi-hoarders, and cleaning up after them when they died was a nightmare. Then, I got even more traumatized when I got divorced, and he left me behind to deal with a large, 3-bedroom house and scale it all down into a small, 1-bedroom apartment. I started getting rid of things then, and I've kept myself scaled down and easily transportable ever since.

LaTigresse -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 12:04:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus ~fr~ I do think that the folks on the shows know that something is WRONG, and that most people do not live as they do. I just don't think that these shows are a way to get help for them. Hoarding is a serious problem, whether you are hoarding trash, newspapers, clothing, or companion animals. These folks need more than a dumpster sweeping through, or someone saying Here, we'll show you to America. LaT, we've been on opposite sides of the fence regarding health stuff before. I am not sure why you can't put yourself in the position of those of us who have struggles every day of our lives, but it seems like you can't. Having a mental health issue in one area doesn't make you incompetent in others. I think you are making incorrect assumptions. There are enough mentally ill people in my life, for me to have a very clear understanding what they have been through, and continue to go through. I would be furious if anyone had approached my daughter, during her weakest points, to appear on a television show. Similarly with my father now and his alcoholism, or my mother and her (whatever the flavour of the month diagnosis is). Or my sister and her continuing battle with an eating disorder. Or my sister and her bi-polar craziness. That television producer would be facing one very angry woman with a team of lawyers if they even dreamt of airing my family members pain for random stranger's, "I'm bored, let's see what the fucked up/worse off, people of the world are doing!!!"

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 12:12:37 PM)
So all these people in your life are unable to "consent"? I have control over my anxiety these days. I haven't had a panic attack in well over a year. There has never been a time I was unfit to consent. I would wonder how your family would feel about your lack of respect for their ability to make choices for themselves... I know if my mother threatened to hire an attorney to negate my choices in this world, well I probably wouldn't be on speaking terms with her. I am an adult, I make my own choices, whether my mother or anyone else agrees with them.. the fact I feel anxiety more acutely and suffer from a phobia doesn't make me incapable of making choices for myself.... and pretty good ones I might add

LaTigresse -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 12:24:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania So all these people in your life are unable to "consent"? I have control over my anxiety these days. I haven't had a panic attack in well over a year. There has never been a time I was unfit to consent. I would wonder how your family would feel about your lack of respect for their ability to make choices for themselves... I know if my mother threatened to hire an attorney to negate my choices in this world, well I probably wouldn't be on speaking terms with her. I am an adult, I make my own choices, whether my mother or anyone else agrees with them.. the fact I feel anxiety more acutely and suffer from a phobia doesn't make me incapable of making choices for myself.... and pretty good ones I might add If when my daughter was in her worst moments, I would not consider her able to make that sort of rational decision. If my father is drunk, (find a time when he isn't) he is not able to make a rational choice. If my mother cannot determine she does not need 4 gallons of pickles in her house for one 130# little old lady, I do not consider her rational enough to consent. My daughter would be thrilled I cared so much to watch her back. My mother and I haven't been on mother/daughter speaking terms for two decades so...... I really don't have a give a damn whether or not she cares and my father would attempt to shoot, or sic his dog on, anyone that brought a television camera near his house. His paranoia would be their downfall. My youngest sister would likely alternate between being thrilled at the attention but also mortified that anyone knew she had an eating disorder and would run from the very idea. My other crazier sister would run the television people off her farm and pray for them, because television is the devil's work.

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