RE: Hoarders and Obsessed

RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 12:32:53 PM)
quote: If when my daughter was in her worst moments, I would not consider her able to make that sort of rational decision. They have courts to determine how competent people are. It is extremely hard to have people declared incompetent, which is the legal standard to deny them the ability to give consent. You have never watched the shows I am talking about, this is extremely obvious from your responses. The people I have seen on Hoarders: Buried Alive are not "incompetent". These are people who want to change their lives. These are people who have to relearn how to decide what to keep and what to discard. These are people who are completely able to give consent. You might not like their choices, such as presenting their journey to people who may judge them, but it is their right to determine how to walk through this life... I find it interesting I have a lot of admiration for the people who face problems like this head on, and you consider them not even fit to make their own life choices... who is really judging them here, me, or you?

LaTigresse -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:16:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: If when my daughter was in her worst moments, I would not consider her able to make that sort of rational decision. They have courts to determine how competent people are. It is extremely hard to have people declared incompetent, which is the legal standard to deny them the ability to give consent. You have never watched the shows I am talking about, this is extremely obvious from your responses. The people I have seen on Hoarders: Buried Alive are not "incompetent". These are people who want to change their lives. These are people who have to relearn how to decide what to keep and what to discard. These are people who are completely able to give consent. You might not like their choices, such as presenting their journey to people who may judge them, but it is their right to determine how to walk through this life... I find it interesting I have a lot of admiration for the people who face problems like this head on, and you consider them not even fit to make their own life choices... who is really judging them here, me, or you? Wrong assumption. I am fine with your perception of my judgments. I don't like the shows and will not support, by agreement, their existence. I find the way they take advantage of these people, to make money, repugnant.

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:21:36 PM)
quote: Wrong assumption. I am fine with your perception of my judgments. I don't like the shows and will not support by agreement, their existence. I find the way they take advantage of these people, to make money, repugnant. So you think that someone who decides to get treatment, go through the process of clearing their home, which takes a year in some cases... is a person who is incompetent.... There are two shows, one I will agree is exploitive and I do not watch it because of that fact. The other shows a person's progress over time, and these are people who sought treatment for themselves... they were not referred by family members.... they wanted help. So here are these people SEEKING help, and you have labeled them "incompetent". Put aside whether or not you like these shows, or don't, how could you label people seeking help for themselves, going through a painful treatment process, and succeeding at overcoming such an issue "incompetent"... I don't agree...

LaTigresse -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:23:52 PM)
Ahhhhh, so it was the aspect of my assumption the people that consent are incapable of doing so, that rankles you? It is my opinion that they would be better served getting help AWAY from the camera. I am against the whole concept yes. And yes I do question the competency of anyone that would submit themselves to that sort of public humiliation........just to 'get help'. I also feel that those people that put themselves on that sort of reality programme are not thinking clearly about the secondary repercussions. How it will affect the people that love them. As an example, if my daughter put herself on television it would not just be her exposure that would be upsetting to me. She has children, a brother, nephews, etc etc etc.....that could be negatively affected by that exposure also.

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:35:22 PM)
quote: And yes I do question the competency of anyone that would submit themselves to that sort of public humiliation........just to 'get help'. I think it is sad commentary on the mental health system in this country that they need to. quote: I also feel that those people that put themselves on that sort of reality programme are not thinking clearly about the secondary repercussions. How it will affect the people that love them. As an example, if my daughter put herself on television it would not just be her exposure that would be upsetting to me. She has children, a brother, nephews, etc etc etc.....that could be negatively affected by that exposure also. In the second show I mentioned, which makes me think you have not seen it, the entire family is a part of the process, if they choose to take part. Here is the reason why I asked the question here... I feel as though i learned a lot by watching people process these things. I feel as though by understanding the struggles they have I have more sympathy for people who go through this. I think I judged them far more before I saw it on television. I think I am not the only person that feels this way.. Some people are really private about their battles. Some people aren't. In my opinion it takes a lot of courage to expose one's self this way and they should be proud of facing their issues, not ashamed. I think part of the problem with these conditions in shame, and if you watched one show I am speaking about, dealing with this not being a shameful thing, but something to overcome... well frankly I find that inspiring. If people feel that shame should be attached to mental health conditions, well I don't agree with that... shame only makes matters worse

LaTigresse -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:45:16 PM)
If they took these people's stories and made an acted programme about it, I would have zero problem with it. I wouldn't watch it, but I wouldn't say it was wrong. I am quite certain that anyone that is shown on camera has given legal consent. That is not what I was talking about. Nor am I talking about people feeling shame for mental illness. My nephews have a right to go to school, or their mother's house, and not be grilled because their aunt was on television and OMG they spend time at her house!!! So, regardless of whether or not the people actually on camera have given consent, and regardless of whether I think it is 'informed consent' I still think it is wrong. There are plenty of people in that person's life that are not on camera that have the potential to be negatively affected. In my mind, there is no reason for this type of programme AT ALL. If they want to be educational, pay for the person's treatment and use their story as 'inspiration' for a documentary or drama, with paid actors.

pahunkboy -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:47:54 PM)
FR: I tend to agree that the media is using those people.

hlen5 -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:49:32 PM)
I don't watch these shows because I don't watch much TV at all. I have only the most basic cable so I couldn't watch them even if I wanted to. The best of scenarios would be that people could get help for their issues without broadcasting them. I think that it would be positive to see people recovered from their hoarding. I think it would be hard to seriously consider ALL the fallout from being on such a show, no matter how informed the subject was.

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:50:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy FR: I tend to agree that the media is using those people. They are being "used" to produce a show, to get ratings, to sell products... that is what TV does... The news uses the bad luck of many people to get ratings to sell products, because that is what the news does. I suppose we could hire actors to replay news stories because people might be negatively impacted by the actual people who make the news being on it...

pahunkboy -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 1:52:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 I don't watch these shows because I don't watch much TV at all. I have only the most basic cable so I couldn't watch them even if I wanted to. The best of scenarios would be that people could get help for their issues without broadcasting them. I think that it would be positive to see people recovered from their hoarding. I think it would be hard to seriously consider ALL the fallout from being on such a show, no matter how informed the subject was. I seen a couple episodes online. From that- I determined- that while I own junk-- and I have some clutter- I am not a hoarder. After that- I felt like I was looking at something I was not supposed to look at. At the expense of the subject-ed.

littlewonder -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 5:43:33 PM)
you know my daughter is a hoarder and has anxiety issues out the wazoo but she's still fully and mentally able to consent. She knows what she is doing and saying. She knows why she does what she does. She just simply chooses to ignore the problem. She consents to being a hoarder and consents to every single thing she does and says. Her mental capacities are completely intact. This thought that because one has a mental handicap that they aren't able to consent is imo, poppycock.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 6:13:27 PM)
I've watched a couple episodes. In one, they actually found the remains of like three dead cats under literally tons of garbage. She was in danger of losing her home and being institutionalized. On the show they had specialists who provided ongoing therapy to the hoarder and discussed follow up goals. I doubt the woman would have sought help on her own since she contiued to ignore the problems, even knowing that the deadline was approaching for her to either comply with health codes or have her home condemned. I find it hard to believe that the woman's life wasn't vastly improved, and her home saved from being condemned. I think her familly would have been negligent to have allowed her to lose her home and her freedoms. I also think it unliikely they could have afforded therapy AND the cost of a cleaning crew to haul away like 8 tons of garbage. In all likelihood, this was a trade-off brought about by desparation. The show needs consenting participants. The participants need help. Who was using whom? WinD

Lucienne -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 6:17:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder . She consents to being a hoarder People don't consent to mental illness. Spare me the poppycock you smoke to convince yourself you're not a shitty mom.

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 6:25:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder . She consents to being a hoarder People don't consent to mental illness. Spare me the poppycock you smoke to convince yourself you're not a shitty mom. She does consent to not doing anything about her problem, especially if she is offered help... I have a phobia. I choose not to desensitize myself to it every day. I have attempted to many times, but I still struggle with it. I did not consent to the phobia, but I did consent to not doing anything about it

DomImus -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 6:57:32 PM)
I've watched a few of the Hoarders and Obsessed shows and I've learned a bit about both of those problems. I could have researched both online but I think there is an added impact or perspective you get from seeing the shows. That's the difference between research that is largely static and a show like this - it puts a face on the problem and lets you see the human impact. I've known a few hoarders in my time and I never understood the situation but not I get it a little more. They aren't shows I would follow on an ongoing basis but I felt I learned something from the episodes I have seen. I can't see any ongoing entertainment value from watching random peoples' suffering. The Intervention series is too painful too watch. If I am cruising through and the show is nearly over I might tune in for the last few minutes to see if the person was able to seek treatment and make some progress in their lives. It's nice to see people pick themselves up and succeed against these issues. More often than not it does not end that way which is very sad. I now know more than I ever thought I would about Alaskan crab fishing, ice road trucking and swamp logging. And they say television is not educational.

Lucienne -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 8:06:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania She does consent to not doing anything about her problem, especially if she is offered help... I have a phobia. I choose not to desensitize myself to it every day. I have attempted to many times, but I still struggle with it. I did not consent to the phobia, but I did consent to not doing anything about it I see what you're saying, but I think it's important to maintain the distinction between choosing something and consenting to something. I'd like to think that if a stranger attacked me and raped me that people wouldn't say that I consented because I didn't do absolutely everything I could to stop him. Yes, one can choose to fight. But mental illness isn't waiting for your affirmation or consent to continue on with its messy business.

laurell3 -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 8:10:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder . She consents to being a hoarder People don't consent to mental illness. Spare me the poppycock you smoke to convince yourself you're not a shitty mom. Wow harsh much? She's actually right. No, people don't ask for mental illness, but yes, they can continue and consent to it if they do nothing to attempt to get help for themselves. The fact that littlewonder recognizes this doesn't come remotely close to making her a shitty mother.

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 8:34:16 PM)
quote: The fact that littlewonder recognizes this doesn't come remotely close to making her a shitty mother. Just like my mom isn't a shitty mother because I have a phobia... It is a bit like saying that if your kid has an issue that the mother is responsible for it, and that just isn't so... mommy blame is so turn of the 19th century Freud

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 8:36:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: The fact that littlewonder recognizes this doesn't come remotely close to making her a shitty mother. Just like my mom isn't a shitty mother because I have a phobia... It is a bit like saying that if your kid has an issue that the mother is responsible for it, and that just isn't so... mommy blame is so turn of the 19th century Freud Just ONE phobia? Slacker! I always thought of you as more of an over-achiever.

juliaoceania -> RE: Hoarders and Obsessed (8/16/2010 8:37:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: The fact that littlewonder recognizes this doesn't come remotely close to making her a shitty mother. Just like my mom isn't a shitty mother because I have a phobia... It is a bit like saying that if your kid has an issue that the mother is responsible for it, and that just isn't so... mommy blame is so turn of the 19th century Freud Just ONE phobia? Slacker! I always thought of you as more of an over-achiever. it is a big one though, one that has crippled my opportunities in many ways and tied my hands in others... not driving as a Californian makes me a "freak" here....

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