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[Poll]

Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero?


Yes
  50% (30)
No
  42% (25)
unsure-
  6% (4)


Total Votes : 59
(last vote on : 8/18/2010 7:51:32 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:29:21 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Using fast reply....

Sometimes I think, it is no wonder other countries and people that are so different than the ignorant, arrogant, big mouths, in this country..... hate us enough to want to commit such violence against us.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/18/2010 12:30:17 PM >

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:30:16 PM   
pogo4pres


Posts: 593
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		I said this in a different thread and it got ignored there because people were too fucking concerned over my stating clearly, MY BELIEFS, so I'll try again:



In 100,000 years when the sun has gone nova and fried off all life, and Earth has become an empty, lifeless, frozen ice-ball, hurtling through space, will what I, or anyone believed really have mattered?????


Atheistically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


< Message edited by pogo4pres -- 8/18/2010 12:32:55 PM >

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:32:31 PM   
MistressLavinia


Posts: 1110
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From: DFWM in the Land of LaviKinks
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pogo4pres

I said this in a different thread and it got ignored there because people were too fucking concerned over my stating clearly, MY BELIEFS, so I'll try again:



In 100,000 years when the sun has gone nova and fried off all life, and Earth has become an empty, lifeless, frozen ice-ball, hurtling through space, will what I, or anyone believed really have mattered?????



No disrespect toward you intended, but in 100,000 years from today, I wont be alive to care, right now I am. For as long as I am alive, I will care. Not caring is giving up. I will never give up.


_____________________________

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(in reply to pogo4pres)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:35:09 PM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline 		AP: Some Muslims question mosque near ground zero
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jxmc4rAQm6H-tBtGldAagMS0O6zQD9HM2H600

(I had some trouble posting the link, but it's easy enough to do a search - it's an Associated Press article by Rachel Zoll, posted less than an hour ago)

The plan is modeled on a YMCA and Jewish Community Center - including a pool, gym, and auditorium, all welcome to the public. The thirteen-story building will include a mosque, but the rest of the space is non-denominational. It will also include a 9/11 memorial, which I find appropriate considering its proximity to ground zero. The owners of the site are Muslim with a history of interfaith service projects. There is some concern as to what the building may become after the couple retire - that it may be used by new leadership as a center for those with extremist views - but after all, it's just a building. The intent is good, just like building a schoolhouse in Alabama in the '50s was a good idea, whether or not it was used after hours to house KKK meetings. It could just as easily have been a place for AA meetings or a group of history buffs interested in Civil War sites. I believe that if the leadership maintains the good intent of the builders, it could be a very good thing.

The only thing controversial is the location.


*edited to fix typo*


< Message edited by switch2please -- 8/18/2010 12:38:34 PM >

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:37:47 PM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline 		read the Third Temple Wiki article...again, what does that have to do with building a mosque in NYC?

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:46:19 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please

read the Third Temple Wiki article...again, what does that have to do with building a mosque in NYC?


Because we are an ally of Israel.    More so then any other mid east country.

Somehow help me out with this one.   I cant find the words.

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:48:05 PM   
dcnovice


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The more I think about this issue, the less sure I am what I believe. In my maddening Unitarian way, I can see too many sides of the argument.

There seems little quarrel over the legality of building a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, where other mosques already exist. The thornier question, I think, is whether it's wise to do so. I'm finding this a very tough call.

According to its website, the Park51 project aims to provide "a welcoming community center with multiple points of entry" that will serve as "a friendly and accessible platform for conversations across our identities." Laudable goals, I think. But are they undercut by that real estate perennial--location, location, location? It's clear that many people resent the center's being so close to Ground Zero, and that resentment seems likely to impede the center's goals. So there's a pastoral case, as with the convent at Auschwitz, to be made for moving to less heated ground.

And yet . . .

I've been struck by the anti-Muslim tenor of much of what I've heard about the project, and I'm troubled by (a) the seeming irrationality of many Park51 opponents and (b) the equation of any Muslim presence with terrorism, specifically the horrors of 9/11. Is it wise, is it right to yield to such passion and prejudice?

I don't know.

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:48:48 PM   
mnottertail


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Well, I see what you are driving at hunky, but no help here, we are allied to Israel, but seems to me that we are allied to Iraq, and there is some muslims there, but not one thing to do with anything.

We are talking about americans here.

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:49:39 PM   
pogo4pres


Posts: 593
Joined: 1/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLavinia

No disrespect toward you intended, but in 100,000 years from today, I wont be alive to care, right now I am. For as long as I am alive, I will care. Not caring is giving up. I will never give up.



Giving up??  What exactly is it are you giving up?  Did you (like I did) spend 6 years of your life in the US Air Force (4 May 1977 to 11 Apr 1983).  Respectfully Ma'am, I did not sacrifice those six years of life to see the notions of the founders tossed aside.  The building while housing a "mosque" will not serve primarily as a mosque.  People are still raw over 9-11, which to me having served in the military was a "minor" event compared to what could have been done, and I do not get that. 

Every one had better realize that there is no single nation state that is home to these bozo's and "normal" military action does not and can not work.  As the late great Charlie Wilson said of our funding the mujaheddin in Afghanistan in the mid to late 80's (the same people we now fight might I add), when funding for schools and hospitals and other infrastructure was denied.   "We did these things and it was glorious, we changed the world......BUT WE FUCKED UP THE END GAME"





Historically ,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


_____________________________

"All life is pain highness, anyone that says different is just trying to sell something" The Man in Black (Dread Pirate Roberts)

(in reply to MistressLavinia)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:50:23 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		How did it go from 5 stories to 13?

The visual of the skyline comes into play.  Some cities are very picky about what the skyline view is.  Tho apparently not NYC zoning.

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:54:57 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


Well, I see what you are driving at hunky, but no help here, we are allied to Israel, but seems to me that we are allied to Iraq, and there is some muslims there, but not one thing to do with anything.

We are talking about americans here.


but we would side with Israel.  if it came down to it.

consider too the large Jewish population in NYC.

the height of the building is an issue because we the US control the air.  you know the all seeing eye.    but we the US-  not Islam- or Iraq.

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 12:57:56 PM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline 		The AP article claims 13 stories, I'm not sure where a five-story building was referenced.
As for the skyline...I seriously doubt the builders are planning to put a minaret on top.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 1:01:00 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I would agree.........if it was a religiously motivated attack and there had been another faith's house of worship that was purposely destroyed. But that is not the case, so to me it is irrelevant. 


9-11-01 was indeed a religiously motivated attack (Islam vs Christianity) and there was indeed another faith's house of worship destroyed (St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Christian Church was completely destroyed when the second WTC Tower fell), so by your own criteria it is indeed relevant.

Furthermore, despite assurances from the Port Authority of New York in July 2008 regarding a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site the Port Authority has apparently reneged on the deal because it has repeatedly refused to discuss the matter since then.



(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 1:06:35 PM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		- FR -

Personally I think the Westboro Baptist Church is made up of scum.   Because of their actions and protests at military funerals I think that if any Christian church or organization ever wants to build a church within sight of any military cemetery we should deny them their constitutional rights because of the Westboro Baptists!

Sounds pretty stupid, huh?

Well, that is exactly what the people sound like that want to keep the people of the Muslim faith from building at 51 Park.  It was a radical few that perpetrated 9/ll, but since they have that common bond with all Muslims lets ostracize them all.  Right.  (And yes, that last bit was sarcasm.)



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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 1:15:59 PM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline 		Islam vs. Christianity...or Islam vs. the United States?

The target was the World Trade Center in NYC, an international center of commerce - not the Vatican, not Jerusalem, not any other recognized religious site.

Unless you worship the dollar bill, like I do. How the mighty have fallen... *sniff*

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 1:19:50 PM   
MistressLavinia


Posts: 1110
Joined: 3/6/2009
From: DFWM in the Land of LaviKinks
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pogo4pres

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLavinia

No disrespect toward you intended, but in 100,000 years from today, I wont be alive to care, right now I am. For as long as I am alive, I will care. Not caring is giving up. I will never give up.



Giving up??  What exactly is it are you giving up?  Did you (like I did) spend 6 years of your life in the US Air Force (4 May 1977 to 11 Apr 1983).  Respectfully Ma'am, I did not sacrifice those six years of life to see the notions of the founders tossed aside.  The building while housing a "mosque" will not serve primarily as a mosque.  People are still raw over 9-11, which to me having served in the military was a "minor" event compared to what could have been done, and I do not get that. 

Every one had better realize that there is no single nation state that is home to these bozo's and "normal" military action does not and can not work.  As the late great Charlie Wilson said of our funding the mujaheddin in Afghanistan in the mid to late 80's (the same people we now fight might I add), when funding for schools and hospitals and other infrastructure was denied.   "We did these things and it was glorious, we changed the world......BUT WE FUCKED UP THE END GAME"





Historically ,
Some Knucklehead in NJ



No I didn't spend 6 yrs of my life in the Air Force and I do appreciate the fact you did. I'm not going to sit on this post and tell you what I did lose from the destruction. You message stated 100,000 yrs from now we'll be dead so what? I wont give up the post is : Am I okay with the Mosque near Ground Zero, my answer NO I am not okay. I can have and will have any feeling I want about it, and that's my opinion.
I said there's no disrespect intended, I stated my opinion, I'm not disrespecting you so do you know why some people are still raw? Im raw as hell, I'll be raw until the day I die, and 100,000 years I wont care but now I do, I care very much so, and like I said, wounds for me wont heal. My answer is No to the question posted, and my answer to you was, I will care until I'm dead. I didn't ask what you did, so don't disrespect me by asking me if I was in the Air Force for 6 yrs.


_____________________________

If somebody offers you a lifetime supply of candy and there is just one piece, don’t eat it: It’s probably poison:
~I am: ~Petal-icious~Bitch with Tits~
~ Ravager ~Sovereign~ LaviKinKs

(in reply to pogo4pres)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 1:20:07 PM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline 		Islam vs. Christianity? Really?
I'd say it was more a group of Islamic terrorists vs. the United States, as a symbol of the freedom of expression it represents. If you want publicity, who else would you target?

Speaking of targets, the buildings attacked were the World Trade Center - an international center of commerce, not associated with the Vatican or Jerusalem or any other religious site.

Unless you worship the dollar bill. How the mighty have fallen... *sniff*

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 1:21:27 PM   
switch2please


Posts: 494
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Status: offline 		(sorry to repeat - my computer is having issues, I thought the first one didn't post)

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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 1:24:19 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think the poll is missing some options. Like "I don't care one way or the other", "I'm ok with it because the U.S. Constitution guarantees freedom of religion but other than that have no stand," "I'm not ok with it because of the sensitivity issue but will uphold this group's Constitutional rights.", "This isn't what our forefathers had in mind when they wrote that....", "I am in support of it because I think this will help create a positive light for the Muslim community in the area.", "I support it because I am Muslim and would visit the Mosque."

I think there's a WIDE range of "yes" and "no" and "yes and no" answers not being covered.

boi


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RE: Are you OK with the Mosque near Ground Zero? - 8/18/2010 1:27:51 PM   
BoiJen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: switch2please

Islam vs. Christianity...or Islam vs. the United States?

The target was the World Trade Center in NYC, an international center of commerce - not the Vatican, not Jerusalem, not any other recognized religious site.

Unless you worship the dollar bill, like I do. How the mighty have fallen... *sniff*



You MUST come visit Florida sometime. ;-)

boi


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Profile   Post #: 60
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