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Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 12:49:51 PM   
Vendaval


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More details about the effects of the dispersants on the BP oil leak and the rate of biodegrading.


OIL SPILL -- August 19, 2010 at 2:00 PM EST
Scientists Map Gulf Oil Plume
BY: LEA WINERMAN


"Months after the Deepwater Horizon oil leak began, a 22-mile-long, 1.2-mile-wide and 650-foot-high plume of microscopic oil compounds floated 3,000 feet below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico near the well, according to a study published Thursday in the journal Science.

The research is the most precise mapping yet of an oil plume, and confirms what many scientists have suspected for months -- that much of the oil that leaked from the Macondo well stayed below the surface of the ocean rather than floating to the top. That behavior has been one of the most singular and unexpected aspects of the spill, because oil is lighter than water and generally floats on the surface.

But in the case of the Deepwater Horizon leak, several factors -- including the fact that the leak took place so far below the surface and the fact that BP sprayed 1.8 million gallon of dispersants at its source -- have meant that some microscopic oil droplets remained suspended in the water instead. That has complicated scientists' efforts to understand how much oil leaked from the well, where it ended up, and how it will affect the local environment."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/08/scientists-map-deepwater-horizon-oil-plume.html?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=fanpage&utm_campaign=pbs%2B

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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 12:55:45 PM   
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Ahem....Sanity....

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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 1:00:40 PM   
Politesub53


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You do know this is based on research from two months ago ?  It hardly shows the current situation.

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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 1:28:50 PM   
Sanity


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From a related article:

quote:



WASHINGTON – A 22-mile-long invisible mist of oil is meandering far below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico, where it will probably loiter for months or more, scientists reported Thursday in the first conclusive evidence of an underwater plume from the BP spill....

The underwater oil was measured close to BP's blown-out well, which is about 40 miles off the Louisiana coast. The plume started three miles from the well and extended more than 20 miles to the southwest. The oil droplets are odorless and too small to be seen by the human eye. If you swam through the plume, you wouldn't notice it.

"There's no visible evidence of oil in the samples; they look like clear water," study chief author Richard Camilli said.

The scientists used complex instruments — including a special underwater mass spectrometer — to detect the chemical signature of the oil that spewed from the BP well after it ruptured April 20. The equipment was carried into the deep by submersible devices.



And yes, it is dispersing and becoming more and more diluted every day. And its interesting to note that no one is arguing with the fact that this is nowhere near the disaster that the irresponsible media once tried to claim.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Ahem....Sanity....

boi



< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/19/2010 1:31:19 PM >


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 1:38:48 PM   
Sanity


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And as I pointed out above the head researcher was quoted as saying that the invisible, tasteless, odorless and virtually undetectable "plume"  would only last for months, as well.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You do know this is based on research from two months ago ?  It hardly shows the current situation.


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 1:46:47 PM   
BoiJen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And as I pointed out above the head researcher was quoted as saying that the invisible, tasteless, odorless and virtually undetectable "plume"  would only last for months, as well.


Try reading the article.

quote:



It is also possible that the plume has been degraded over time as microbes in the water break down the oil compounds. But the researchers' work suggests that that breakdown is happening relatively slowly. When microbes break down oil they use oxygen, leading to oxygen depletion in the surrounding water. But the researchers' sampling didn't find much evidence of that depletion, suggesting that the oil breakdown is happening relatively slowly and the plume could travel far from the well.

The study comes during continued debate over the fate of the oil from the well. Earlier this month, a report from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association said that almost 75 percent of oil from the well had been captured, burned, naturally biodegraded or dispersed in the water, and that the dispersed oil was biodegrading quickly.

But this week, two reports from outside scientists have taken issue with the government's conclusions. On Tuesday, a report by researchers at the University of Georgia estimated that 79 percent of the oil from the spill remains unaccounted for, and is biodegrading more slowly than the government's estimates suggest.

And also on Tuesday, scientists at the University of South Florida released preliminary findings of oil droplets sitting on the sediments on the sea floor at the DeSoto Canyon, an underwater canyon farther east of the wellhead. The researchers also found that the oil droplets were toxic to the phytoplankton that make up the base of the area's food chain.

David Hollander, one of the researchers who worked on the University of South Florida study, says that the oil plume research published Thursday in Science fits well with what he's observed -- particularly the fact that the Woods Hole scientists found evidence that the oil in the plume was not biodegrading quickly.

"The deep sea hydrocarbons are degrading at a very low rate, and consequently will have a persistence in the environment for years to decades," he says


boi

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 8/19/2010 1:47:31 PM >


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 1:47:38 PM   
Louve00


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And what about the health concerns?

http://www.waltonsun.com/news/worries-5288-persist-health.html

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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 1:54:06 PM   
BoiJen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


From a related article:

quote:



WASHINGTON – A 22-mile-long invisible mist of oil is meandering far below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico, where it will probably loiter for months or more, scientists reported Thursday in the first conclusive evidence of an underwater plume from the BP spill....

The underwater oil was measured close to BP's blown-out well, which is about 40 miles off the Louisiana coast. The plume started three miles from the well and extended more than 20 miles to the southwest. The oil droplets are odorless and too small to be seen by the human eye. If you swam through the plume, you wouldn't notice it.

"There's no visible evidence of oil in the samples; they look like clear water," study chief author Richard Camilli said.

The scientists used complex instruments — including a special underwater mass spectrometer — to detect the chemical signature of the oil that spewed from the BP well after it ruptured April 20. The equipment was carried into the deep by submersible devices.



And yes, it is dispersing and becoming more and more diluted every day. And its interesting to note that no one is arguing with the fact that this is nowhere near the disaster that the irresponsible media once tried to claim.




From your same article:

quote:



But the chemical ingredients of the oil persist more than a half-mile beneath the surface, researchers found.

And the oil is degrading at one-tenth the pace at which it breaks down at the surface. That means "the plumes could stick around for quite a while," said study co-author Ben Van Mooy of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts, which led the research published online in the journal Science.

Monty Graham, a scientist at the Dauphin Island Sea Lab in Alabama who was not involved in the study, said: "We absolutely should be concerned that this material is drifting around for who knows how long. They say months in the (research) paper, but more likely we'll be able to track this stuff for years."

Florida State University scientist Ian MacDonald, in testimony before Congress on Thursday, said the gas and oil "imprint of the BP discharge will be detectable in the marine environment for the rest of my life."

.....

Federal officials said there are signs that the plume has started to break into smaller ones since the Woods Hole research cruise ended. But scientists said that wouldn't lessen the overall harm from the oil.

The oil is at depths of 3,000 to 4,000 feet, far below the environment of the most popular Gulf fish like red snapper, tuna and mackerel. But it is not harmless. These depths are where small fish and crustaceans live. And one of the biggest migrations on Earth involves small fish that go from deep water to more shallow areas, taking nutrients from the ocean depths up to the large fish and mammals.

Those smaller creatures could be harmed by going through the oil, said Larry McKinney, director of Texas A&M University's Gulf of Mexico research center in Corpus Christi.

Some aspects of that region are so little known that "we might lose species that we don't know now exist," said Graham of the Dauphin Island lab.

"This is a highly sensitive ecosystem," agreed Steve Murawski, chief fisheries scientist for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. "The animals down at 3,300 to 3,400 feet grow slowly." The oil not only has toxic components but could cause genetic problems even at low concentrations, he said.


This is EXACTLY the disaster the media was talking about. Not the end of the World but the end of certain life for certain creatures and a change in life for many more, for years to come, possibly decades. If you can't see that as a disaster, then you clearly have no concept of reality.

boi

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 8/19/2010 1:57:49 PM >


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 1:55:31 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And as I pointed out above the head researcher was quoted as saying that the invisible, tasteless, odorless and virtually undetectable "plume"  would only last for months, as well.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You do know this is based on research from two months ago ?  It hardly shows the current situation.



Great.  What about the chemical residue that is already finding its way into the food chain?

But then I'm sure lobster will taste much better seasoned with benzene, toluene and ethybenzene.

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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 2:00:03 PM   
BoiJen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


And as I pointed out above the head researcher was quoted as saying that the invisible, tasteless, odorless and virtually undetectable "plume"  would only last for months, as well.



Please find the particular quote from the scientist in question.

I can't seem to find it in either article referenced. In fact, all I've found is "years" or "decades" or "the rest of my life time". Not "months".

boi


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 2:11:03 PM   
Louve00


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Probably in the very first paragraph of his article...

A 22-mile-long invisible mist of oil is meandering far below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico, where it will probably loiter for months or more, scientists reported Thursday in the first conclusive evidence of an underwater plume from the BP spill.

But then later on down the same link (aside from what you found, boi, it says.....

Earlier this week a University of South Florida team reported oil in amounts that were toxic to critical plant plankton deep underwater, but the crude was not necessarily in plumes. Those findings have not been reviewed by other scientists or published. The plume is probably still around, but moving west-southwest of the BP well site at about 4 miles a day, Camilli said.

and.....

Previous attempts to define the plume were "like watching the Super Bowl on a 12-inch black-and-white TV and we try to bring to the table a 36-inch HD TV," said Woods Hole scientist Chris Reddy. The paper, fast-tracked for the world of peer-reviewed science, was written on a boat while still in the Gulf, he said. Reddy said he could not yet explain why the underwater plume formed at that depth. But other experts point to three factors: cold water, the way the oil spewed from the broken well, and the use of massive amounts of dispersants to break up the oil before it gets to the surface. The decision to use 1.8 million gallons of dispersants amounted to an environmental trade-off — it meant less oil tainting the surface, where there is noticeable and productive life, but the risk of longer-term problems down below.

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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 3:34:20 PM   
Sanity


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I seriously wonder if this ghost plume or whatever you want to call it has anything to do with the BP leak as you would have to assume that the Gulf currents would have carried these virtually undetectable traces of oil far away from the spill site by now.

Then again, as politesub pointed out, this is dated research so it probably is gone unless their ghost plume is from some of the naturally occurring seeps which are in the Gulf.

It seems like a lot of spin, as some people just arent happy unless theyre in the midst of crisis.


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 3:37:29 PM   
BoiJen


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Your reading comprehension needs help.

boi


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 3:41:22 PM   
Sanity


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Can you be more specific in your criticism, or are you just trying to obfuscate here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Your reading comprehension needs help.

boi



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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 3:52:20 PM   
BoiJen


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Well, if you choose to read both articles, while the information may be dated, you'll find that there's a consensus of a lower rate of chemical break down of oil in cooler temperatures. Thus the oil will need extra time to break down while in cooler depths. Months, years, decades, a lifetime. The scientific process of understanding the bonded chemicals of oil and dispersants and the length of time to break down to "non-toxic" levels is not agreed upon; however, what is agreed upon by scientists, as published, is that this crap is gonna be around for while and be detectable as such. This fact is agreed upon in both articles referenced in this thread.

Now, go back and read your first sentence of post 12 of this thread.

The obvious conclusion is either your reading comprehension is compromised or you're purposefully ignoring the information being put in front of you despite your effort to reference the same information to support your point of view.

Is that specific enough?

boi


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 4:01:07 PM   
Sanity


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Okay, fair enough then. I say "ghost plume" because the articles referenced tell us you can swim through it without knowing theres any oil there. Its invisible, its tasteless, its odorless... in fact you need a mass spectrometer before you could possibly even know that there is the slightest trace of oil there. Practically undetectable...

And the existence of powerful oceanic currents is undeniable. Could be its your reading comprehension thats "compromised".




< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/19/2010 4:09:45 PM >


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 4:12:31 PM   
BoiJen


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Moving at a rate of up to 4 miles a day....was used in one of the two articles.

And part of the concern here isn't just the "plume" it's the oil AND dispersant compounds that are settling on the seabed and not breaking up as it has on the surface. These chemical compounds are highly toxic. While the Gulf breaks up relatively small amounts of seeping oil annually, this is no longer oil alone. And, as Archer pointed out in an earlier thread, this oil was dumped on into the Gulf at an extraordinarily high rate compared to what the Gulf environment is used to handling and the spill was in addition to any seepage the environment had already been dealing with. Just because a person can drink two ounces of alcohol before becoming sick doesn't mean they can drink 4 ounces of alcohol and still be able to drive.

Will that ecosystem eventually recover? Probably. Is it already on its way to recovery? Most definitely. Is this situation no longer a "disaster" because we can't see the oil...no. Only a fool would believe that. Hell, we haven't even hit the first shrimping season after the spill to be able to determine the aftermath of this situation upon our food supply. The government stating "everything is ok!" is as much a lie as "1,000 barrels a day". And we saw how that turned out.

boi

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 8/19/2010 4:13:35 PM >


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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 4:17:14 PM   
CruelNUnsual


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen


Is this situation no longer a "disaster" because we can't see the oil


Its no longer a "disaster" of the originally claimed magnitude because it was just another swine flu pandemic for the media to feed on and never was a disaster of that magnitude.

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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 4:54:14 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Can you be more specific in your criticism, or are you just trying to obfuscate here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Your reading comprehension needs help.

boi




Maybe we can try being more specific right here.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2010/0819/Gulf-oil-spill-plume-stretches-21-miles-not-breaking-down-much

Earlier this week, scientists at the University of South Florida returned from a cruise with preliminary evidence indicating that oil droplets were moving up the undersea DeSoto Canyon and onto the continental shelf off Florida's west coast. The toxic effects of oil and dispersants appeared in collected samples of bacteria and phytoplankton, the scientists said. The at-sea analyses need to be backed up with more-rigorous lab work, the team acknowledged.

This is not two months old.  This is the data they just brought back a few days ago. 

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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/19/2010 5:13:53 PM   
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It's been fingerprinted as coming from the well, and there's never been a case of such a massive amount of dispersant being applied at such a depth for so long.  Looks like the oil's in supension with the seawater.  A major concern is that stuff getting into an area where bottom feeders like shellfish live, since they concentrate contaminants.

CnU, why don't you go to all the fishermen out of work and tell them it wasn't that bad.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
I seriously wonder if this ghost plume or whatever you want to call it has anything to do with the BP leak as you would have to assume that the Gulf currents would have carried these virtually undetectable traces of oil far away from the spill site by now.

Then again, as politesub pointed out, this is dated research so it probably is gone unless their ghost plume is from some of the naturally occurring seeps which are in the Gulf.

It seems like a lot of spin, as some people just arent happy unless theyre in the midst of crisis.


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