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RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 12:51:27 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I say two months because we're just entering the fishing season for bottom feeders of the Gulf. Getting close to the height of the season and we'll really see the impact...at least that's what I'm lead to believe in understanding chain reactions when it comes to food supplies.

boi

Oo. Yeah. Good point - I hadn't thought of that. I've got a lot of friends down there, and most of them fish. I'm a little reticent about asking them, because it's a sensitive and emotional subject for them. Their answers tend to reflect the way they want it to be more accurately than the way it really is. Right now, I'm just steering clear of anything that comes from the Gulf. I spoke to the seafood guy at my local grocery store, and he assured me that right now, all of the stuff that I usually get comes from Asia or New England. I'm comfortable with that, but I think I'm going to do some research on where the frozen seafoods I sometimes buy originates.

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(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 41

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 12:57:54 PM

Archer

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Panda,

I'm not eating seafood much at all right now, no because of the Gulf but because economically it's not in the budget.

Most of the toxins that will effect the seafood from the oil are going to kill what they kill pretty quickly. (ie a month or two and all the big animals that are going to die directly from this spill will have died.) the rest is indirect food chain ripples.
The stuff we harvest live is likely OK, the big question is going to be not the large animals that we use for food ourselves but what effect the plume has on plankton. Both animal and plant plankton has been killed by the plume. How much? and how quickly can that be back in balance to supply the food sources for the animals we usually have for food will be a big question.

In other words the threat is much more that the food chain has been cut off at the bottom levels, and that will ripple through the entire food chain for the area.
plankton dies and the shrimp starve, shrimp starve and the fish starve, it's anybodies guess how big a problem this is going to be.

Now the place I would be most cautious and worried is the filter feeders Clams and Oysters from the gulf I am worried about if they are from areas where the tar balls have been washing up.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 42

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 1:19:48 PM

flcouple2009

Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
So youre claiming that the mass spectrometer findings which these breathless scientists are trying to rush through peer review (which, if they dont have an agenda why are they rushing things) are perfectly comparable to breathing a deadly atmosphere of carbon monixide?

To the life that is living in it may be.

So your saying you would rather wait 6 or 8 months and then get the report out for others to review? If there is nothing wrong it doesn't matter, but if there is a problem you will be one of the first screaming about how the government screwed up.

Are you really this dense?

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 43

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 2:26:50 PM

Vendaval

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Fast Reply -

I am not going to be purchasing or eating any seafood from the Gulf this year and will be waiting on futher testing after that time has passed.

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Post #: 44

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 3:58:16 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Fast Reply -

I am not going to be purchasing or eating any seafood from the Gulf this year and will be waiting on futher testing after that time has passed.

Vendy,

When you go out to eat in a restaurant, or buy seafood in a grocery store, or eat at someone else's home, how can you be SURE the seafood did not come from the Gulf?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 45

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 3:59:26 PM

Hillwilliam

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Im coming to the conclusion that sanity couldnt pass a HS chemistry class if his life depended on it.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 46

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 3:59:30 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I say two months because we're just entering the fishing season for bottom feeders of the Gulf. Getting close to the height of the season and we'll really see the impact...at least that's what I'm lead to believe in understanding chain reactions when it comes to food supplies.

boi

Oo. Yeah. Good point - I hadn't thought of that. I've got a lot of friends down there, and most of them fish. I'm a little reticent about asking them, because it's a sensitive and emotional subject for them. Their answers tend to reflect the way they want it to be more accurately than the way it really is. Right now, I'm just steering clear of anything that comes from the Gulf. I spoke to the seafood guy at my local grocery store, and he assured me that right now, all of the stuff that I usually get comes from Asia or New England. I'm comfortable with that, but I think I'm going to do some research on where the frozen seafoods I sometimes buy originates.

Now, you are being "careful" about where your seafood is coming from PandaMan?
hummmmm

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 47

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 4:02:21 PM

Hillwilliam

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Joined: 8/27/2008
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As for gulf seafood, if you want to be safe, wait a bit then eat only things from low in the food chain, shrimp, mullet, sardines etc. Things higher in the chain (mackerel, tuna, redfish) tend to bioconcentrate any toxins and store them in fatty tissues.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 48

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 4:03:44 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

As for gulf seafood, if you want to be safe, wait a bit then eat only things from low in the food chain, shrimp, mullet, sardines etc. Things higher in the chain (mackerel, tuna, redfish) tend to bioconcentrate any toxins and store them in fatty tissues.

I stopped eating seafood a few months ago, I started a thread on it in May.
I was already VERY concerned and leery about eating seafood, the last oil spill just sealed the deal for me.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3227086/tm.htm

Most people didn't appear concerned at all in May, they seem a lot more concerned now.

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/20/2010 4:13:49 PM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 49

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 4:04:13 PM

Hillwilliam

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Maybe a better question here should be "Are Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck eating gulf seafood right now"?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 50

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 4:56:51 PM

flcouple2009

Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I say two months because we're just entering the fishing season for bottom feeders of the Gulf. Getting close to the height of the season and we'll really see the impact...at least that's what I'm lead to believe in understanding chain reactions when it comes to food supplies.

boi

Where is stands now is virtually no one is going out. They are worried that even if they do catch shrimp that can be consumed the prices are going to be so low (because consumers just aren't gonna want it) that they will just be going in the hole to shrimp.

A few boats that did go out have reported pulling up shrimp that had oil on them in certain areas. (But hey what do the shrimpers know, Sanity says there is no oil) They say at that point they're just dumping them back over board.

Everyone has continued the motions. Most of the fleet at various ports has been blessed and prepared, but now they are just sitting around not shrimping.

The big shrimp festival and blessing of the fleet in Delcambre, LA is this weekend. That one breaks my heart. Depending on whether I was in Lafayette or were I grew up in Franklin I either went to buy shrimp off the docks in Delcambre or Morgan City.

I am afraid it's going to be a long time before we know how bad things really are.

< Message edited by flcouple2009 -- 8/20/2010 4:58:56 PM >

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 51

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:07:42 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

It's been fingerprinted as coming from the well, and there's never been a case of such a massive amount of dispersant being applied at such a depth for so long. Looks like the oil's in supension with the seawater. A major concern is that stuff getting into an area where bottom feeders like shellfish live, since they concentrate contaminants.

I've had a bit of experience with surfactants. I spent about 6 years working with tertiary recovery technologies including alkaline flooding, polymer-enhanced drives, alkaline foam (CO2) flooding, and surfactant drives, often in combination with polymers and/or silicates (alkalinity source, which also helped prevent in-situ silicate oil-bearing formations between the injection and recovery wells from dissolving).

We did a lot of testing on various crudes, almost all from the Gulf Coast region, mostly from Placquemine Parish, LA. Some of the crude/alkaline emulsions remained stable for years, usually your typical 3-phase system, but sometimes the entire test tube was a single phase emulsion.

It's my guess that that plume is mostly emulsified crude, which could very well remain stable for a long time. It's also my guess that it is remaining towards the bottom because the emulsion is formed from seawater, a heavier-than-seawater dispersant, and the higher molecular weight hydrocarbons, probably above C-8.

I'd bet that the toxic effects will spread throughout the entire ecosystem in the Gulf. Not good.

Addendum: About 40% of the phytoplankton population has vanished from Earth's oceans over the last century. The BP spill has evidently killed off 40% of the remaining phytoplankton in the Gulf. Really not good.

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 8/20/2010 5:17:25 PM >

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(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 52

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:17:25 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I say two months because we're just entering the fishing season for bottom feeders of the Gulf. Getting close to the height of the season and we'll really see the impact...at least that's what I'm lead to believe in understanding chain reactions when it comes to food supplies.

boi

Oo. Yeah. Good point - I hadn't thought of that. I've got a lot of friends down there, and most of them fish. I'm a little reticent about asking them, because it's a sensitive and emotional subject for them. Their answers tend to reflect the way they want it to be more accurately than the way it really is. Right now, I'm just steering clear of anything that comes from the Gulf. I spoke to the seafood guy at my local grocery store, and he assured me that right now, all of the stuff that I usually get comes from Asia or New England. I'm comfortable with that, but I think I'm going to do some research on where the frozen seafoods I sometimes buy originates.

Now, you are being "careful" about where your seafood is coming from PandaMan?
hummmmm

Oh, yes, ma'am, definitely. Now there's a good reason to. Earlier, every area that had been affected by oil was closed to fishing, so you knew that everything you bought in a store was coming from an unaffected area and was safe to eat. Now that they're reopening areas that are clearly contaminated by oil, it's a whole different ballgame. Nothing but Asian shrimp for me for quite a few years to come, I think.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 53

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:19:49 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Panda,

I'm not eating seafood much at all right now, no because of the Gulf but because economically it's not in the budget.
.....

Now the place I would be most cautious and worried is the filter feeders Clams and Oysters from the gulf I am worried about if they are from areas where the tar balls have been washing up.

Thanks, Archer, I greatly appreciate the info. I know we often disagree on politics, but I really respect and appreciate your willingness to set that aside and share some of your expertise. You're a good man.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 54

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:19:49 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

IMO, having tasted the Asian Tiger shrimps alongside Gulf Coast shrimp, the Gulf shrimp are "sweeter". What a bummer. TY, BP.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 55

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:22:03 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

IMO, having tasted the Asian Tiger shrimps alongside Gulf Coast shrimp, the Gulf shrimp are "sweeter". What a bummer. TY, BP.

I agree. Gulf shrimp are much more flavorful, in my opinion. Thank you, too, by the way, for the information you shared. I was hoping you'd weigh in on that question when i first posted it.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 56

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:23:15 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Im coming to the conclusion that sanity couldnt pass a HS chemistry class if his life depended on it.

It would depend upon whether he felt the person who wrote the test had a liberal agenda, or a conservative agenda.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 57

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:27:01 PM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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I believe I've gone mad, the left is pissed at Obama for killing the Gulf, and Sanity is defending him.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 58

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:32:37 PM

Lucylastic

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Dammit I knew someone would figure it out

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Post #: 59

RE: Deepwater oil plume in the Gulf of Mexico - 8/20/2010 5:39:00 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I believe I've gone mad, the left is pissed at Obama for killing the Gulf, and Sanity is defending him.

I can top that.
Are you sitting down?

The left also supports illegal immigration as much or more than George Bush.
Several posters have commented that they "can't believe" President Obama has deported more illegal immigrants than George Bush.

They "forget" that George Bush FULLY supported and defended illegal immigration to the best of his abilities.
Many of the left are mad at increased border control {which Bush never fully supported, he was too busy giving out temporary guest worker visa's,to people that never left and never will leave}, also remember when Bush waited until the end of his Presidency to FINALLY pardon the border agents?

http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/President-Bush-Pardoning-Drug-Felons-But-Not-Decorated-Border-Patrol-Agents.html

rob, the left is the new right, the right is the new left, up is now down, down is up, loving and only wanting the best for your country makes you a bad person, watching our country spiral downwards is the new national pasttime, and predicting when we will finally be in a full Depression will win you the prize.

Now, I consider the following information, "good news" because it supports fair labor practices.
I have never thought slave labor, etc. was a good thing, but many on the extreme left will be mad that some of good old President Bush's "guest worker" policies have been changed.

http://www.farmworkerjustice.org/guestworker-programs/h-2a

Bravo! for ending some of those damn policies.

Many of the rats are turning on President Obama while the last President got "away" with pretty much everything.
President Obama is doing the best that he can do, and I do feel he wants to do the best job that he can with this country.

For some reason, people don't realize how fucking bad off this country was when President Obama was elected, and only GOD could wave a magic wand and make things "okay".
President Obama will not be able to stop the Depression that is coming, this country was in too deep before he was elected.
But at least President Obama is doing what he can to soften the blows.

Corporations, corporate greed, bad policies, bad decisions, a very short sighted view of the long term big picture, and selling our soul down the river is what landed us in the sinking ship we are riding to the bottom of the ocean in.

President Obama is doing the best that he can, but taking the wheel of a VERY RAPIDLY sinking ship, will not stop the damn ship from sinking.

I think President Obama did the best he could with the gulf coast oil spill, what more could he have done?

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/20/2010 6:26:52 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 60

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