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Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 2:30:55 PM   
Musicmystery


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This story today impacts a few discussions here, so I'm giving it its own thread.

In Tenn., Mosque Location Isn't The Issue: Religion Is
by Blake Farmer

Many of the opponents of a proposed Islamic center near the World Trade Center site have made the case that an Islamic center is fine — just not there. But in other parts of the country, people are saying, "Not here, either." A new Islamic center is going up near Nashville, Tenn., and as in New York, the proposal has fractured the community along a divide over religious freedom.

Recently hundreds of protesters marched around the town square in Murfreesboro, Tenn. They carried signs that read, "Enough Is Enough" and "Stop Terrorism."

Another woman yelled out, "Have you forgotten the twin towers?"

What has these people so upset is a proposal to build what would eventually be a 52,000-square-foot Islamic center, complete with worship space, a cafeteria and even a pool.

There's already a small, inconspicuous mosque hidden in a complex of office suites behind a Quick Lube. But the congregation has outgrown the space.

The Argument Against

The leader of the opposition has tried stopping construction with environmental and traffic concerns. But most of the people rallying against the mosque, like Ben Fletcher, have a different argument.

"We're Christians and this religion represents people that are against Christians. That's something we need to look at, you know, because you're going to have a lot of trouble down the line," Fletcher says.

He says he does not know exactly what trouble looks like, but he and others worry about terrorist links and Muslims wanting to impose Shariah (Islamic law).

Saleh Sbenaty, an engineering professor from Syria and a leader of the growing Muslim congregation, has lived in Tennessee for three decades, but he says he's never seen this level of Islamophobia.

"All of the sudden now ... there is a movement against Islam and Muslims," Sbenaty says. "We did not see that immediately after 9/11. And all of the sudden now it is part of politics and it is like ... 'I can get more votes if I can bash Islam more, Muslims more.' "

The mosque debate has played out in state politics. The lieutenant governor had to back away from campaign statements suggesting Islam might be a cult. A candidate for Congress who was upfront about her suspicions of Muslims nearly won the Republican primary this month.

Voices From The Mosque

But in Murfreesboro there is also a substantial amount of support for the mosque, even among non-Muslims. In fact, many, like Allison Belt, are Christians themselves. "Anyone who has a religion that falls within the boundaries of our laws, such as the Muslim community here, should have access to a place to worship. They need more room. They need more space. I went to an open house at their place two weeks ago. It is crowded and hot," Belt says.

At least one opponent is trying to find out more about Islam. Tanzi Webb showed up at the existing mosque this week. She says she wanted to look its leaders in the eye and get some questions answered.

Webb arrived just before the afternoon call to prayer and was invited in. She slipped off her shoes and watched from the back. After seeing prayers, Webb spoke with the imam. She told him she's afraid following the Quran to the letter makes for extremists and terrorists. Afterward, she says the meeting didn't convince her otherwise.

"It did not put my mind at ease at all, but I tried to come in with a very open mind. I did not come in thinking this group is evil," Webb says. "My main thing is safety, safety, safety."

That's safety from violent extremism, she says. Webb says she has a long way to go before she can be comfortable with a big Islamic center, whether it's going to be next door or in New York City.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/19/2010 2:32:41 PM >
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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 2:58:02 PM   
jlf1961


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Funny thing is that these Christians will point to Islam and say it is a religion of terrorists and killers, all the while denying the number of Christian Right followers that have bombed abortion clinics, murdered abortion doctors and workers, set fires to abortion clinics, beat and assaulted Muslims just for being Muslim and one recently placed a pipe bomb outside a mosque in Florida.

Yet the Religious right does not want to be judged by the actions of a few extremists.

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 3:13:35 PM   
Musicmystery


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This mosque has been there 30 years, and not a peep. Even after 9/11, nothing.

Now, before the election, it's the new divisive wedge.

Time to stand up and stop being manipulated.

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 3:17:41 PM   
pahunkboy


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Yeah- they fought one is Palos Hts IL

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 3:50:20 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Funny thing is that these Christians will point to Islam and say it is a religion of terrorists and killers, all the while denying the number of Christian Right followers that have bombed abortion clinics, murdered abortion doctors and workers, set fires to abortion clinics, beat and assaulted Muslims just for being Muslim and one recently placed a pipe bomb outside a mosque in Florida.

Yet the Religious right does not want to be judged by the actions of a few extremists.


No jlf, they don't. You really don't seem to understand why either.

Personally I think Mm nailed it on the head when he mentioned that it is right before election time.


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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 4:02:01 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Funny thing is that these Christians will point to Islam and say it is a religion of terrorists and killers, all the while denying the number of Christian Right followers that have bombed abortion clinics, murdered abortion doctors and workers, set fires to abortion clinics, beat and assaulted Muslims just for being Muslim and one recently placed a pipe bomb outside a mosque in Florida.

Yet the Religious right does not want to be judged by the actions of a few extremists.


No jlf, they don't. You really don't seem to understand why either.

Personally I think Mm nailed it on the head when he mentioned that it is right before election time.




Yet the religious right will condemn, protest and insult people of a religion based on the actions of a few.

Same argument.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 4:36:07 PM   
joether


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Does it surprise anyone that the GOP, FINALLY, found something to use as a wedge issue in the next election? It doesnt help the economy, or any of the other problems we currently have. They hold zero accountibility, but demand, EVERYONE ELSE, is held to every tiny infraction. They have virtually no credibility, but claim wild and crazy ideas, that are sent out to another equalyl bunch of foolish and often uninformed group of Americans: The Tea Party. So yes, there are Americans who are racists and intolerant of other peoples religion. Big surprise! This nation has always had racists. In the last election, do you think they voted for McCain or Obama?

Isn't that sort of the reason why 9/11 took place? Religious intolerance? Racial intolerance?

Why is 'Freedom of Religion' so hard for conservatives to understand? Its less words then 'Thou Shall Not Kill'. Or is it because the words are to big? We have a few conservatives on here, maybe THEY could answer the question?


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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 5:21:14 PM   
jlf1961


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In order for the GOP and conservatives to win elections they have to have something to claim you should be afraid of, that is the cause for all your problems, and that is planning on destroying your way of life.

As long as a political party and its base can build on hate and intolerance this country will never get past racism and religious intolerance.

The right wing conspiracy theorists are just building on what the conservative and republican main stream speakers and politicians are preaching.

this says it all about the right



< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 8/19/2010 5:39:05 PM >


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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 5:51:50 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Does it surprise anyone that the GOP, FINALLY, found something to use as a wedge issue in the next election? It doesnt help the economy, or any of the other problems we currently have. They hold zero accountibility, but demand, EVERYONE ELSE, is held to every tiny infraction. They have virtually no credibility, but claim wild and crazy ideas, that are sent out to another equalyl bunch of foolish and often uninformed group of Americans: The Tea Party. So yes, there are Americans who are racists and intolerant of other peoples religion. Big surprise! This nation has always had racists. In the last election, do you think they voted for McCain or Obama?

Isn't that sort of the reason why 9/11 took place? Religious intolerance? Racial intolerance?

Why is 'Freedom of Religion' so hard for conservatives to understand? Its less words then 'Thou Shall Not Kill'. Or is it because the words are to big? We have a few conservatives on here, maybe THEY could answer the question?




Freedom of religion only applies to Christians.

Just like freedom of speech only applies when you say the right things.

And the Fourteenth Amendment needs to be changed because, well, times have changed and no one could have possibly anticipated the immigration problem.

But the Second Amendment can never be changed because it was well known that some day we would have to be armed at all times to prevent being sodomized by the evildoers.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 8/19/2010 5:59:11 PM >

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 5:58:42 PM   
Lucylastic


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God RML its good to have you back!!!!!

One I found particularly amusing in a sickening aint it the truth kinda way




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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 6:00:00 PM   
Elisabella


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Haha those cartoons are hilarious

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 6:38:28 PM   
TheHeretic


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Looks like plain old religious bigotry to me, Muse. Nice to know we have courts to ram this right back down their throats.

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 7:08:14 PM   
jlf1961


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Those cartoons seem to sum up the conservative, republican and religious right opinions.

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 7:18:19 PM   
TtotheC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

God RML its good to have you back!!!!!

One I found particularly amusing in a sickening aint it the truth kinda way





Harsh...but fair.  American politics fascinates the living hell out of me.  It's a whole new level of bouncing off the wall insanity to an outsider.  Sometimes I even feel the urge to turn the laptop on it's side and try and read articles, just so they make some kind of logical sense.

P.s  It rarely works.

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 7:18:38 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Those cartoons seem to sum up the conservative, republican and religious right opinions.



Or at least the automatic prejudices of some towards conservatives, republicans, and the religious right...

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 7:25:23 PM   
Lucylastic


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Of course its painting all Repubs, rightie christers and conservatives in one foul brush
Luckily there are a majority that are relatively normal, just like the rest of us:)
you always notice the squeaky wheel right?


Edited to add
My apologies to MM for hijacking... I heard about the pipe bomb that was planted or attempted outside the mosque ion florida. But this one was news, I deel the desire to point out facts to people like that but you just cant, I feel a sense of hoplessness for the future of humankind.
We are just as bad as them...
and I feel horrible knowing that


< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 8/19/2010 7:29:50 PM >


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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 7:27:34 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Of course its painting all Repubs, rightie christers and conservatives in one foul brush
Luckily there are a majority that are relatively normal, just like the rest of us:)
you always notice the squeaky wheel right?



With very few exceptions, the "normal" majority you claim exists are staying very very quiet.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 7:30:04 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

With very few exceptions, the "normal" majority you claim exists are staying very very quiet.




That's an administrative thing, not lack of interest.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 7:30:13 PM   
TtotheC


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I know, it pains me to admit but even right wingers are people too.  Actually it shocked the hell out of me to find out my American relatives were God fearing, conservative folk.  I asked them who they were going to vote for in the 2008 election and my Auntie replied "McCain, I don't trust Obama".  Although to be honest it's turned out Obama is the lesser of two evils, instead of being the superhero that liberals around the world wanted  (Trust me, not just American liberals were crossing their fingers that night.  8 years of Bush was enough for the whole world to want a change).

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RE: Not just "ground zero" - 8/19/2010 7:32:48 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Yet the religious right will condemn, protest and insult people of a religion based on the actions of a few.


Where have I condemned anyone?


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