RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/22/2006 3:14:48 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

And the Europeans that settled here were not "illegal
I suppose it all is in how you define illegal. I define it by: Anyone who comes into a country without the countrys residence permission and uses any resorces of the country and puts down roots even if temporary. And yes most all came from other places in the Americas befor the Europeans however the Indians and Vikings that were present had been present for a few generations and that Id define as Americans born and raised. JMO ~smiles~ ThankYou for Your comments and opinion Level.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 21

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/22/2006 3:21:26 PM

MsMacComb

Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline

This wasn't posted as a joke on my part (and I doubt by the original author either). Many states, especially in the Southwest are going bankrupt because of this. The governors of Arizona and New Mexico both declared a state of emergency due to the fact that the schools, the hospitals, the jails, and essentially ALL social service are beyond tapped. People keep using the numbers of either 11 or 12 million illlegals, but of course they have no idea. It could be twice as many or more. Yes there are taxes paid by some and yes they spend money in the local economy. However, as virtually none have insurance, one major hospital visit that costs 20 grand takes what little taxes that may have been paid from perhaps 200 overe decades out of the state coffers and the costs are passed on to everyone else. Welfare fraud is a huge issue, driving down wages, its a huge burden on society and isnt fair to us or them. They have no rights and people take advantage of this. The problem is our government where one of their primary functions is to secure our borders and makes no effort to do so. Probaly because half of them hire undocumented aliens as their maids, drivers, gardeners etc.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 22

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/22/2006 3:24:12 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

Ahhh...... but this was not a country when the Europeans came... *smiles*........and some natives did welcome the colonists........at least initially!

Level

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 23

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/22/2006 10:16:59 PM

MistyMenthal

Posts: 413
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline

The Guys from New Guinea,
Go figure.~

KISS ME, Misty

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 24

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 4:43:51 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

quote:

the problem isn't immigrants...... but illegal immigration.

Those who came to this country originally by boat were all illegal immigrants. America wasent a Country uninhabited and those who inhabited
the Americas were whiped out by the illegal immigrants who entered its shores
either by sickness brought to the land by ship or migration and war. Those same
decendants now wish to bitch, moan and complain about the current illegals however there would be no problem if there wasent oportunity layed open at their feet. Get Americans to work at the jobs only illegals do today and youll lose the illegals at the boarder who will have no reason to enter then. Most think that the illegals are working only in farming but I can tell you that they fill the Construction jobsites as well. How many Americans are able bodied here but gain some kind of Government subsidy or assistance be it with housing, food, money or medical help because they dont want to take a job perceived to be below them or in a field thats hard and manuel and hot? And dont give Me the excuse that you payed your taxes and deserve such items unless you are elderly and not able to work any longer or the truely disabled. And Ladies, I dont want to hear the excuse your a female or you have kids and cant do that kind of work cause thats not gonna fly with Me. And Men dont tell Me that You once had a job that payed you 25 bucks a hour and your not gonna do anything for less...... In the right to work states there are no unions and everyone regardless of experiance starts out doing any job at minumum wage. So either get sum pride and get your lazy 25 a hour ass up and work and be a productive person in society and America or expect that illegal to be there waiting in line to take that job you dont wanna do because of pride. Thats where the truth lies on Immigration and the realities and perspectives. JMO

Didn't the illegal aliens in your example(Europeans) attack the indians, destroy their culture, and subjugate them. hmmmmm, bad example I think. At least I hope that's not what you are saying the illegal immigrants want to do.

To answer the government assistance statement.
As I child my mother received government assistance. As a adult I've never accepted government assistance. College I had student loans, but I had to pay those back. I've been below the poverty level. I don't accept it because I've never been to sick to work, and really it might suck having a crappy job but I've always managed to feed myself. I could give up all kinds of things before I reached that level, like internet access, phone service. Hell I have given up everything and sold my belongings to make it. And not once did it ever occur to me someone else should pay for me to live.

So, it's no suprise, I 100% don't believe a illegal immigrant, as in someone that sneaks across our border,should collect one penny from the government. In fact, I believe every last one of them should be imprisoned in labor camps until they pay off the cost it will take to send them back to their own country, where they can apply for citizenship . Now, a person that does it legally and doesn't cross our border in the dead of night or just hangs around after their visa expires or whatever. Sure they should qualify, but they shouldn't come here just to get benefits. For every dollar of benefits that person uses it comes out of anothers pocket, and half the taxes aren't paid by the wealthy either.

Illegal immigrants are criminals, employers that use them are criminals. A employer found using illegal labor should be at the very least heavily fined on the first offense, and put out of business if it ever happens again. That would stop all this non-sense immediately. No jobs and no free benefits equals no illegal immigrants.

edited to add....

I do think it is this countries fault for the current situation of illegal workers to a large degree. I personally know alot of people that are completely and totally lazy. Live to get drunk, or stoned, and whine and complain about how there are no jobs, yet I've never seen them look for a job, and my dumb ass has always found work. So, the problem is really two fold. 1. A large percentage of US citizens are lazy pieces of crap, that just want to live off anybody elses sweat. 2. Since we have so many lazy ass people it has created a void for jobs that suck.

However, you don't make americans less lazy and more productive, by allowing everyone just to run rampant over the border. You make people less lazy by trully qualifying them for benefits, and forcing them to work. Literally, I know at least a dozen people that could work but don't because they are lazy pieces of crap. So, you have to deal with that issue. Welfare benefits, and the like, should just be given for the trully disabled, and elderly. Everyone else should have to work to get anything. If you made that change well, then those crap hole jobs the illegals are doing now would fill up quickly with legal citizens. So, yeah, some US citizens are lazy.
However, you don't just accept that fact. And fix it, by just leaving your border open. If a illegal can get across well anyone can. You also don't burden a already overburdened welfare system with more people collecting on it. The vast majority of which, don't pay taxes, and their employer also doesn't pay taxes on their labor. So, all that does is make everyone else playing fairly, have to pay even higher taxes to make up for the assholes cheating with virtual slave labor. Also, if all the immigrants were legal, they wouldn't have to take the shittiest of the shitty jobs, they could actually, get a decent job someday. I'd hope they wouldn't want to work for nothing forever.

Yawn, I could keep going about language, culture, etc....

But the point is illegal immigration, keeps americans lazy, unfairly distributes taxation to those that are legal, keeps illegals subjugated to the worst jobs, and burdens the Social services of the country. No one wins, except the employers using the labor. So, pro-illegal immigration is really Pro-Business using near slave labor, and avoiding taxes.

Hey, I'd actually benefit greatly from virtual slave labor, 4.00 dollars an hour no benefits. I could really get this place moving, and if they get sick, just send them to the hospital on other peoples dime. I'd pay no taxes on their labor. Crap sounds good to me, unfortunately for everyone else I'm the only that would benefit.

< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 4/23/2006 5:19:53 AM >

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 25

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 8:10:40 AM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

We will have illegals as long as American business interests are willing to hire them.

The fact of the matter is that in the Rio Grande Valley here in Texas, there are not sufficient citizens willing to pick produce for $4 and hour and get bitten by brown recluse spiders. I can't imagine why.

I heard one conservative talking-head, suggest that we use prisoners to do these tasks. An amazing suggestion and just what the nations needs ... half a million dangerous criminals roaming around in fields. Maybe we could find more happy chain gangs, with Paul Newman in them.

The issue isn't with the illegals. They are just people that like to eat, more than they like to go hungry. Again, I can't imagine why. The issue is with American companies, and Americans that don't want to pay $3 for a grapefruit. For the third time, I can't imagine why. Grapefruit is so yummy.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 26

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 8:42:06 AM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Step forward all those Americans who aren't the descendants of immigrants.

I'm waiting.

I'm definitely descended of immigrants. My grandfather was conceived overseas, but born in the U.S. The difference is, my great-grandparents were admitted legally and became legal citizens. They learned English because that is what is spoken in the United States. They wanted to be American.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 27

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 8:44:04 AM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Ahhh...... but this was not a country when the Europeans came... *smiles*........and some natives did welcome the colonists........at least initially!

Level

Oh, Level, how right you are

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 28

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 9:40:43 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Ahhh...... but this was not a country when the Europeans came... *smiles*........and some natives did welcome the colonists........at least initially!

Level

Oh, Level, how right you are

What's that? Say it again for me?? *laughing*...

Level

(in reply to feastie)

Post #: 29

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 10:19:13 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

We will have illegals as long as American business interests are willing to hire them.

The fact of the matter is that in the Rio Grande Valley here in Texas, there are not sufficient citizens willing to pick produce for $4 and hour and get bitten by brown recluse spiders. I can't imagine why.

I heard one conservative talking-head, suggest that we use prisoners to do these tasks. An amazing suggestion and just what the nations needs ... half a million dangerous criminals roaming around in fields. Maybe we could find more happy chain gangs, with Paul Newman in them.

The issue isn't with the illegals. They are just people that like to eat, more than they like to go hungry. Again, I can't imagine why. The issue is with American companies, and Americans that don't want to pay $3 for a grapefruit. For the third time, I can't imagine why. Grapefruit is so yummy.

Illegals aren't necessary, you just have to make a easy process for temporarily entering the country for work, and make the fine for hiring illegals high enough to offset the advantage.

I understand why they come here to work, and respect their persistance really. But it's not a good thing to have millions of people entering and exiting a country without any knowledge of who, where, and what their intentions are. Sure 95% are absolutely harmless is the 5 percent or less that are concerning. Also, why should one company be able to not pay taxes on their employees wages and assume liability for injury. I also don't personally like the fact that they have no chance of advancement. It's basicly a new age slave model.

I don't wonder why they do it, I wonder what it speaks of our country to allow and sometimes encourage a subclass of workers. Instead of shutting down or very severely punish companies employing near slave labor. And making a practical system for them to enter legally and thus pay taxes and employers couldn't treat them like crap.

So, maybe we have to pay more for fruit, fruits yummy as you say, but it in no way justifies, tax evasion, security concerns, and denying opportunity to a group that obviously is looking for that very thing.

edited to add.
As far as convicts, that's not a entirely bad idea for non-violent offenders. Of course you wouldn't want murders or rapists running around your field. But someone busted for a drug offense, or theft isn't going to be very dangerous in a field.

< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 4/23/2006 10:26:59 AM >

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 30

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 11:21:15 AM

NakedOnMyChain

Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Step forward all those Americans who aren't the descendants of immigrants.

I'm waiting.

I think you misunderstood. When I said I had a problem with immigration, I meant immigration itself (the processes and laws which we use to decide what immigrants are legally allowed). I don't have a problem with immigrants, just certain tenets of our immigration laws.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 31

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 5:21:40 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Ahhh...... but this was not a country when the Europeans came... *smiles*........and some natives did welcome the colonists........at least initially!

Level

Oh, Level, how right you are

What's that? Say it again for me?? *laughing*...

Level

Level, how right your are

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 32

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/23/2006 7:24:34 PM

sharainks

Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

I think the idea of making our borders harder to cross is neglected. If Mexicans can cross so readily do you suppose that Osama and his bunch have not noticed this? Thats what is scary. Why bother with a US passport when you can get one to Mexico and cross at will?

(in reply to feastie)

Post #: 33

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/24/2006 12:47:23 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

Actually..... It's a great post. Best I've seen from you to date.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 4/24/2006 12:48:07 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 34

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/24/2006 1:52:56 AM

MsMacComb

Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
Actually..... It's a great post. Best I've seen from you to date.
- R

Actually I think some of my others are better.

But heres the thing. You walk into a room (or chat room) full of neocons and tell them that *W.* is a war profiteer (family tradition via Prescott Bush) and a war criminal and they will lose their freakin minds. Facts and evidence don't matter. So the same with other posts of mine (including this one were someone replied it was the stupidist fucking post ever) some people just can't handle the truth and also some people get upset if every post isnt about sex. Either way, life isnt a popularity contest and often going through life and accomplishing things can require a major attittude.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 35

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/24/2006 2:19:13 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

You walk into a room (or chat room) full of neocons and tell them that *W.* is a war profiteer (family tradition via Prescott Bush) and a war criminal and they will lose their freakin minds.

Absolutely agree. And let me add : Most don't even know or understand what it means when the term ''neocon'' is used. Sad but true.

- R

Edited to add - ''Rise of Vulcans'' Is an excellent read. Absent of doing the research and writing a paper on Leo Strauss, this book gives the best and most complete inside look at the whole neocon mentality.

One more edit : The best way to know a true neocon is watch what happens when the topic of illegal immigration is brought up..... they all run away and hide!

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 4/24/2006 2:30:08 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 36

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/24/2006 2:28:05 AM

MsMacComb

Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
Absolutely agree. And let me add : Most don't even know or understand what it means when the term ''neocon'' is used. Sad but true.
- R

Indeed. Sadly far to many are under the false impression that "neocon" means a Republican. Most cons are Republican but most Republicans are NOT cons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States)
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

In reality the neocon movement left unfettered would have developed (or devolved would be more accurate) into something on par with Nazi Germany.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 37

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/24/2006 9:13:11 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

and some natives did welcome the colonists........at least initially!

As do many of the natives of today in the USA. How else do you think 11 million people
or more can just enter a country and dissapear ?? ~smiles~

Most illigals I know have never been to a hospital nor would dream of going to such a place because in their culture it means they are dieing. illigals who are here and doing their jobs better then most Americans would are being protected by big business in order for big business to continue to earn the money they are with the jobs done as they are. Having seen first hand the amount of turn over at a Business as the office has to check monthly on who they hire to see if names and SSN add up and knowing they fire no less then 50 illegals who have used bad names or SSN only to see those same people hired on again with different names and numbers as officials turn a blind eye to such practices after being notified of such practices and knowing that such things had become widespread befor the government has tightened up the laws and starting actually cracking down on such activity I know that not all blame can be layed on the illegal who comes here for better then what they left. A sample of taxes collected from an illigal thats never gained back. A laborer in construction make 10 a hour 400 a week. pays 100.00 in taxes, unemployment and welfare tax. The company matches that payment. Thats 200.00 a week x 4 weeks. Thats 800.00 x 12 months. Thats 9,600.00. Now times that with 20 years which is the average amount of time an illigal will come and live here in the USA befor returning home to retire or becomming a Citizen. NOW times that with 11 million people for starters................... You gonna tell ME a hospital bill cant be payed? Im not saying that illegal entry is not wrong, it is and slaps the face of those of Us who have waited years for a visa to come here to become American legally as well as wait for family members to wait the same or more amount of time, but fix the reason for there being such a large illegal population in the first place befor tempting to remove the work force or you will stagnate the USA econimy and with other issues causing it to fall as well combined will send this Superpower spiraling down into a tizzy.
I can emagine Americans bustin Canada's borders if this Land ever comes under a Oil Shortage to live illegally in a land thats just about self supportive of Oil resorce when the lights go out here perminantly. Do you think Americans are gonna wait for Canada's process of emmigration to move where they can continue to live the life they have grown accustomed to? I wonder who will be the ones left to pic up the peices of a dark and empty country that only knows how to gobble up other countries resorces to feed their own glutten and bitch moan and complain when others eat a lil of their own. Oh yea by the way most Americans wouldent do labor work for less then 10 a hour in the hot sun unless forced to do such no matter what kind of work it is. In fact of the posters here just how many of You work out in the sun on a daily basis and how much do you earn doing it ?AND just how many of you are not American. Now Im currious.

(in reply to MsMacComb)

Post #: 38

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/24/2006 9:29:05 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

The financial burden argument is just spurious. We have been through all the same arguments in Europe about illegals and from reading this thread and having heard the arguments first hand in the States, it all comes down to the same thing. People hate the idea someone is sucking off them but it is the legal society sucking off the illegals.

Who does the work no one wants to do? The illegals.

Who is willing to work for a pittance? The illegals.

Who often takes safety risks in order to keep their job? The illegals

Of course they don't pay tax, they aren't paid enough to pay tax but they are so cheap and they'll do any damn shitty job for any exploitative boss, that to give them a little healthcare and education out of the national purse is no big deal.

I'm all for immigration control but I've a lot of sympathy for illegals. They aren't criminals, they just want what we already have, a decent living.

I think the real fear is that too many illegals will change the culture and redistribute wealth back to the third world. Well, we in the west have exploited the third world for long enough, I don't see a little money going back there as a big deal, we are bring ing in wealth faster than illegals can take it out.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/24/2006 9:30:56 AM >

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 39

RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration - 4/24/2006 9:39:00 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Of course they don't pay tax
your wrong here. most illigals do pay taxes that they never collect back like Citizens do. AND emigrants who are shipped into the USA legally to do tempt work for big business also pay taxes from money earned and are never allowed to collect or file for it either from their own countries. Thats a billion dollar enterprize in its self.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 40

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Interesting Perspective on Immigration

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.125