quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have been in the situation where I called colors.... I was rather new at this getting tied up and beaten thing....

As I got more experienced with the same partner I needed to call them and couldn't. My mouth wouldn't work, and I couldn't say it. I cried instead. He hit me a couple more times and I cried harder. He looked into my eyes and then he stopped because he knew I wasn't doing so good. So it is not only new subs that can have trouble with saying a safeword, but it can happen anytime. Which is why they can be good tools, but they are only one of many tools a dominant should be using to keep you safe.

I hope the OP comes back and reads this thread

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Secondly, while I don't expect Doms to have telepathic powers (and I certainly don't have any myself), I simply wouldn't play that hard with a sub unless I felt I knew her well enough to read her reactions and react appropriately. I'm not going to say your D-type is a "dangerous dom" but, he's either going too fast for you and (since he couldn't tell your distress) too fast for him. OR... he really fucking got off on abusing you. You need to check with yourself which of the two you think it is.

I have to say (and I'm probably being way too concerned) but when you said -

quote:


my head yanked and my back arched far back from some hard hair pulling

I did go "eek" - having your head yanked, and your back arched over much can be potentially quite dangerous - do a search on here for one of the threads on face slapping - It's not necesarily dangerous, but it can be if done recklessly.

quote:

 
Ok, here goes my question.  
Do you always only operate on safeword or do you read some other signs when sub doesn't seem to enjoy what's going on? Like crying?

Bluntly - only a total jackass would operate solely on a safeword. I try to read all the signs, and will err on the side of caution. So .... I've played with girls who have cried, screamed, sobbed and whimpered - and not stopped, but NEVER on the first couple of dates and only ever when I was completely confident that they would be pissed if I stopped.

quote:




How does sub crying make you feel and react? I mean not the kind of crying when she comes.

For me it's an incredibly intimate thing.

quote:


Or are you unable to tell the difference between crying out of pain or orgasm?
Or for some there is no difference that both are pleasurable and you don't bother to distinguish?

In my (by no means extensive) experience, with some gals the two are impossible to separate.

With others there's a clear difference - and yes, I'd tend to pay very close attention to the amount of pain my playmate is feeling.

quote:


And when the sub has limits that are too tame and lame do you still respect them or just ignore and push it?

Limits are limits. Hard limits are hard limits - end of story. Yes, when I know someone I'll push their limits (more often than not only after discussing it), and with two partners I've had an agreement to "push" when they safeword - in other words to get them to withdraw it momentarily on the basis that they can use it again in a second if they want to - but it's a sign that I really do understand were they are (Green , Amber, Red works in the same way I guess) - but I'd really stress these were people I knew very well.

quote:



Then what happens when the sub says the safe word everytime she doesn't like what you are doing to her?

Well - it may very well be that she'd just not right for me, or that she needs more confidence, reassurance - I'd talk to her about it.

quote:



I have very perversely tame and lame limits, even for a vanilla, like... giving and receving orals. But I did accept these when forced and beaten.

Hmm... how do you feel about being forced now - do you feel violated? Was oral expressed as a serious, hard limit - or more of a preference?

quote:


But I wonder if I can say the safe word instead? That would be insanely annoying and a deal breaker?

That's what safewords are for - and they have hugely important ramifications - a safeword is an unambiguous withdrawal of your consent. Once you've used it, unless you retract it then he's not got your consent....

If I absolutely had to have oral, then being safeworded every time I asked for it would be a deal breaker  - sure... but if my goal was a full long term relationship, I'd be willing to do a lot of talking and working on it first.

quote:



And for the sub sisters,
Do you find the level of submission increase when you truly like someone? For me, I really didn't feel like doing the things I dislike for the guy. 
on the first day,  the coersion was pleasurable and I did like the things he forced but they were very brief. The second day it got intense and I had to stretch my limits further and did not like it one bit. 
Does that say I have no submissive bone in me or was it because I didn't like the person enough to submit to him?             

 

I'm not a sub sister but I'm gonna pitch in anyways ;-)

- In most of my relationships my partners limits have flexed as we got to know and trust eachother - and quite a few times we've ended up enjoying things that might have been limits (or even hard limits) for one or other of us at the beginning.

It doesn't say you have no submissive bone in you at all, nor that you didn't like the person enough to submit to him - I think it just means he went too far too fast. A good talk about it could very well solve the problem... if he eases back a bit now - you might be surprised at the  things you're letting him do to you - and loving -  in six months time ;-)

So my advice fwiw - Have a talk, and good luck!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

After you recover from this (however long that takes), I recommend you start from the beginning, because you don't know what kind of submissive you are.

It's possible to simply want to be lead by your male partner or to enjoy rough sex without handing over control or taking away the ability to give your own directions/input. It is actually pretty common to like 'rough sex' with no power exchange which is all I'm personally willing to do with someone I don't know well. It's still a good idea to communicate throughout.
___

For power exchange situations, I suggest you talk to other submissives to figure out what your personal motivations are: being lead, being controlled physically or mentally, resistance, pain, pleasing your partners, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


So tell the guy this. Tell him that if you stop communicating with him, that means there's a problem. Tap out instead of speaking. Lots of us find gestures easier than speech.

Tell him what you do and don't want to try.

But for a newbie, I suggest inclusion instead of exclusion. Meaning he can only do the things you list as doable instead of saying he can do anything except what's on the list. And start with stuff you know you'll like, stuff you've always dreamed of. Start with sensual and fluffy, fun, not painful and enduring.

quote:


No, it was not. You have a lot of emotions to sort through right now, but do not fall into the trap of blaming yourself entirely. Whenever you find yourself thinking/saying "it was all my fault" take a moment to tell yourself that no, it was NOT all your fault. And keep doing that until you believe it.

I don't use safewords at all. I don't use them for reasons that parallel the experience you had. Merely having an agreed-upon safeword is no guarantee that the submissive will use it, or be in a frame of mind to use it. Moreover, no safeword absolves the top in a scene from ultimate responsibility to not do any lasting harm.

The person you were with failed to spot the signs, failed to see that you were in distress and that the scene was not going well. That happens. I've had play moments that have derailed without warning--some little thing triggered a bad reaction in my slave. The challenge for both parties is to recognize when those bad reactions occur and to respond appropriately so as not to hurt one another.

Yes, if you have a safeword, you should be willing to use it. If you are going to have difficulty using it, then don't have a safeword--and make sure the top knows and accepts that he needs to pay attention.

However, I repeat what I said at the very beginning of this: This is not all your fault, and you were not stupid. Mistakes were made by you and by him. Learn from those mistakes, but don't berate yourself over them.

quote:


If someone is interpreting your rules as tame or lame, they may not be compatible with you. Not all D/s relationships involve heavy bdsm pain, it's certainly not an indication that you're bad, not submissive or wrong that you had a bad scene. I think you really need to sit down with this guy and talk to him openly and honestly and be prepared to really ask questions to determine if you really are compatible and accept that it's not an issue of fault if you are not.

Good luck to you and hang in there, I believe you will find there are varying approaches to bdsm all over the spectrum, you may have just picked someone that's on the opposite end that you are.

quote:

I think since you know you mentally couldn't say your safeword that you negotiate for the time being that stop and no means EXACTLY that. You know you can mentally think and say Stop when that is what you need. So for you that should be all the safeword you need.

quote:


Consent is about establishing the extent of boundaries and limits in advance. It is not: "I am going to narcissistically start doing whatever the hell I want to you, and it is your responsibility to stop me." The purpose of a safeword is not to set a limit, but to enforce those which have already been set, or to reset a limit to a lower level due to an unanticipated bad experience.

A limit is a limit. PERIOD. A limit is not a preference, which may be pushed or explored.

Until you have more experience with a particular partner, it is good to set your limits low. There is absolutely no need to "max out" right from the start. As both of you learn more about each other's methods and styles of communication, both verbal and non-verbal, then you gain confidence to appropriately change your limits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lalleee

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

January, someone should not be in a scene where they are unable to leave, or speak, with someone they don't know very well. That is just stupid.

I understand your point about how HE should be listening, but we all know that you cannot predict the behavior of someone you don't know well or trust.

I would never let someone tie me up or gag me who I had not already scened with a ton of times.

Red, I didn't appreciate you calling me stupid. Sorry, but I'll have to flip. [sm=fingers.gif] Please kindly refrain from commenting on any of my posts from now on, thanks

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

uh lallee??

quote:

Could you possibly learn to read more comprehensively?

quote:

I never called YOU stupid, I said sceneing with someone that you don't know very well is stupid. Commentary on the act, not the person.

quote:

In addition, I was answering January, not you.

quote:

I already gave you the benefit of my wisdom earlier on in the thread,

quote:

but you must have missed that in your zeal to give me the finger.

quote:

Learn the difference before going off half cocked and attempting a lame retort such as giving me the finger.

quote:

And another thing, hon?

quote:

NEVER tell anyone not to comment on your posts. Anyone is allowed to post anywhere they choose.

quote:

If you have a problem with me commenting on your posts or anything else, ignore me.

quote:

I never called YOU stupid, I said sceneing with someone that you don't know very well is stupid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I've only had to completely stop a scene verbally once, and it was over something extremely mild. I was taking a caning and cropping just fine, but got thirsty and asked for water. Instead of handing it to me, he poured it over me, and I went a little shocky and started crying and shivering. I tried, but just couldn't get back into a positive headspace.

quote:

I was trying to tough it out and I could physically take it, just suddenly felt overcome emotionally in a negative way.
As to having my limits pushed, I prefer to discuss it and take baby steps. I've written about one of my very positive experiences in that area here, if you're interested.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

And no, not all of us are into pain. I seem to find a divide between those who are into bondage and those who are into s & m. There are some who use restraints so the sub doesn't move while pain is being administered, but there's a group of us who think bondage is its own reward and purpose.

quote:

I would however be concerned that he didn't bother to check in with you when this was a first play date and he knew you had no experience. That seems very selfish to me. Even if he isn't normally that way it is inadvisable to play with someone who gets so into what he's doing that he is unable to focus on the sub.

quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

quote:

I never called YOU stupid, I said sceneing with someone that you don't know very well is stupid.

You called her stupid.

She called you on it.

That is the order of things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

quote:

I never called YOU stupid, I said sceneing with someone that you don't know very well is stupid.

You called her stupid.

She called you on it.

That is the order of things.

quote:

I have to say (and I'm probably being way too concerned) but when you said -

quote:


my head yanked and my back arched far back from some hard hair pulling

I did go "eek" - having your head yanked, and your back arched over much can be potentially quite dangerous - do a search on here for one of the threads on face slapping - It's not necesarily dangerous, but it can be if done recklessly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lalleee
.Do you find the level of submission increase when you truly like someone? For me, I really didn't feel like doing the things I dislike for the guy. 
on the first day,  the coersion was pleasurable and I did like the things he forced but they were very brief. The second day it got intense and I had to stretch my limits further and did not like it one bit. 
Does that say I have no submissive bone in me or was it because I didn't like the person enough to submit to him?             

 

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
You use a lot of inflammatory language in your posts, while it seems to simply be a part of who you are not everyone will respond well to it. Especially people that haven't read your posts for the last few years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lalleee

I tried a scene for the first time. The first time was fine. was slapped, hair pulled and pinched. But on the second date,  it got too rough. I should have guessed when he suggested to set a safe word. I was smacked whole a lot, my head yanked and my back arched far back from some hard hair pulling, pinching, spanking and tickling.   He ordered me to do things i dont like and when I hesitated, all the punishment fell and  pain kept comming and I really didn't enjoy them, wanted to stop but for the life of me, I could not say the safe word. I don't know why. But it wasn't because I wanted to please him. 
I couldn't cope with the pain and didn't know how to stop them because asking to stop brought more punishment. But could not say the word and instead, cried. I broke down and cried 3 times in the duration of an hour and half. 
But crying didn't stop him. He rather got more excited.  
When he softened up a bit I asked him if I could go home and he finally came down to earth and asked me why I wanted to go home. And I said I wanted to stop. So it stopped that way. Thank, god.
I know it was all my fault. I was really being stupid not being able to say the word, putting myself in danger. I know. I'll do better next time - if there is next time. So please don't yell at me, please.

quote:

Ok, here goes my question.  
Do you always only operate on safeword or do you read some other signs when sub doesn't seem to enjoy what's going on? Like crying?
How does sub crying make you feel and react? I mean not the kind of crying when she comes. Or are you unable to tell the difference between crying out of pain or orgasm? Or for some there is no difference that both are pleasurable and you don't bother to distinguish?

quote:

And when the sub has limits that are too tame and lame do you still respect them or just ignore and push it? 
Then what happens when the sub says the safe word everytime she doesn't like what you are doing to her?
I have very perversely tame and lame limits, even for a vanilla, like... giving and receving orals. But I did accept these when forced and beaten. 
But I wonder if I can say the safe word instead? That would be insanely annoying and a deal breaker?