RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits

RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (Full Version)

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Twoshoes -> RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (8/27/2010 10:44:02 AM)
quote: As jujubee mentioned, not everyone can say a safeword. My ex was like that, and required careful attention and constant communication. Not always easy when the sub is reduced to a quivering melty mess who's lost her capacity of language. It gets much harder when the dom happens to enjoy the sight of tears, the feel of fear, whimpering, struggling submissive. Um...[sm=couch.gif] I admit nothing, Mr. Shadow-tiger! Where did you hear this? [:D], but as you might remember from the personality thread, I'm INFP (like you), so I'm fairly confident in my ability to intuitively discern someone's feelings and state of mind, if not outright ask. So, I'm not afraid of "going there" carefully.

Andalusite -> RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (8/28/2010 1:41:00 PM)
I wouldn't have any problem with being ordered to give a hug or a kiss, and I wouldn't get involved with anyone who I didn't feel affectionate toward. I agree it's absurd to punish someone for that, and it can take a little time to build, but if I didn't want to be cuddly, spanking probably wouldn't change my mind. [;)]

ropekitten -> RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (9/3/2010 12:15:56 AM)
My small experiences: I was given a fancy safeword by the first one who had me call him Master, and he explained that it was so that it was so that if I said "no" or "stop" and didn't mean it, things wouldn't stop. I understood that. I scare fairly easily and might easily have said either of those even before he touched me with the nipple clamps or the violet wand. I never used it. There were many times I wanted the scene to stop but I felt just so terribly guilty even at the thought of using it, as though using it would be perceived as a criticism of his treatment of me. Though he hurt me enough to make me squeal or squirm silently (very bad behavior on my part), I never used it, and he would eventually go on to something else, rather annoyed that I wasn't enjoying it. I do not mean that as a commentary on him, but rather on myself, for not actually communicating, but rather making him figure it out. Since then, I have had two interesting experiences. I played with another in an activity that I thought I could handle, but was very scary. I was trying very hard to bravely work through it, when suddenly it went wrong. The safeword he gave me lept out of my mouth without a second thought. Things stopped immediately and I was ok. It was then that I learned that to him, the use of a safeword meant that the scene came to a permanent halt. Well, then I felt really really bad. He had set this thing up and I had called a halt to it. I was already in tears from fear, but this just made it worse. I felt like a complete failure. He held me and told me I wasn't, and that helped some, but I wish I'd known. It wouldn't have changed my need to use it, but I would have liked to have had that conversation ahead of time so I could have asked if there was anything I could say to ask for temporary relief. Then, recently, I met with a very intense Dom who got me into that excited kind of fear that continually tipped nearly to the point of real fear over and over. We talked about my limits, he gave me a safeword, and then pushed the very limits we had just discussed. At first, I was very upset that he hadn't listened to me. Here it was that we had just met and the first thing he does is ignore the limits I have set for my own safety. Why was it always like this?! But I am so so so submissive, that once I get started, I can't say no (and so am a complete danger to myself), and stood there no doubt obviously uncomfortable. He pressed and pressed until I was nearly in tears and then asked me what I was supposed to say... ah... Very meekly I used the safeword. I was afraid everything would stop, but he smiled and backed off. He was still very intense, and he returned to this test more than once, and he needed to because I still feel guilty anytime I think about using it. I thank him for that over and over.

Shadow-tiger -> RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (9/3/2010 11:22:32 AM)
Wow! Thank you for sharing your experiences ropekitten. quote: ORIGINAL: ropekitten I never used it. There were many times I wanted the scene to stop but I felt just so terribly guilty even at the thought of using it, as though using it would be perceived as a criticism of his treatment of me. Though he hurt me enough to make me squeal or squirm silently (very bad behavior on my part), I never used it, and he would eventually go on to something else, rather annoyed that I wasn't enjoying it. This is an issue I have with giving a submissive a safe word then expecting her to use it, without communicating much about it before play starts. You shouldn't find yourself in a position where you want to stop, but feel guilty if you'd use the safe word. And the bit about him being annoyed that you weren't enjoying is another thing that gets me. I would have had the wherewithal to pause and check on you, to see what was going on in your head. It just sounds like he made an assumption that you would be able to use the safe word no problem, and he was alleviated of his responsibility to check up on you. Then again that's me reading into it, his priorities may be very different than my own. In the second situation all I can say is good for you! [:)] It's a bummer he didn't tell you that would end the scene completely, but you still did right by yourself. That third situation ... sounds like it was rather interesting. It sounds like he was trying to show you that you could use the safe word and not feel guilty, which is a very good thing.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (9/3/2010 2:45:43 PM)
I disagree, it's always, first and foremost, our responsibility to make sure we're safe. Our safety and keeping our self safe, is not abdicated to the one we're playing with. It helps things go more smoothly, if they're a safe person to play with, but once we ascertain that this is to far, to unpleasant, he's not noticing I am not enjoying it, it becomes our duty to ourselves, to speak up and keep ourselves safe. Not his, OURS. Now it's nice if they notice we're not having fun, but it's sheer irresponsibility in my opinion to claim our safety and enjoyment are not our responsibilities, they're his. quote: ORIGINAL: January The responsibility for your safety and pleasure rested with him--not you. January

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (9/3/2010 4:59:25 PM)
No. Not all doms want their subs cowering and in terror. Some of them prefer their sub to be enjoying what's going on. If I was terrified and not enjoying things, and did not tell Daddy, and by some weird totally not really going to happen way, he didn't know I wasn't enjoying myself or was feeling fearful, he'd be mad at me for not saying so, and disapointed in himself and feeling like a bad abusive person for not noticing, and he'd mentally beat himself up over this for a very long , long time. quote: ORIGINAL: lalleee Don't all Doms enjoy this to some extent? Having total power and terror reign over the sub?

BoldLV -> RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (9/3/2010 7:21:12 PM)
A lot has been said already and I don't want to be redundant BUT: - Your "Dom" seems to lack experience and the very important connection with the sub. He is responsible for your safety and pleasure at all times. - In the other hand, if you previously agreed on a safeword and started a scene he might have interpreted your signals and tears as part of the process and that you were willing to endure more punishment as part of the scene. - Why for the love of Jesus didn't you use your safeword??? Please resolve that issue before embarking on any other session with any other dom. Finally: NEVER put yourself at risk. BDSM it's beautiful for the emotional connection between dom and sub and it is supposed to be a pleasurable experience for both...no trust, no mutual knowledge = no games

ropekitten -> RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits (9/3/2010 9:49:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shadow-tiger This is an issue I have with giving a submissive a safe word then expecting her to use it, without communicating much about it before play starts. You shouldn't find yourself in a position where you want to stop, but feel guilty if you'd use the safe word. And the bit about him being annoyed that you weren't enjoying is another thing that gets me. I would have had the wherewithal to pause and check on you, to see what was going on in your head. It just sounds like he made an assumption that you would be able to use the safe word no problem, and he was alleviated of his responsibility to check up on you. Then again that's me reading into it, his priorities may be very different than my own. In the second situation all I can say is good for you! [:)] It's a bummer he didn't tell you that would end the scene completely, but you still did right by yourself. That third situation ... sounds like it was rather interesting. It sounds like he was trying to show you that you could use the safe word and not feel guilty, which is a very good thing. The problems in the first situation were completely of my own making. I am the one who feels guilty about stopping a scene. My former master and I had many other difficulties because as time went on it turned out that we were not as well matched as we thought we were. On his end, he would discuss a scene neither before nor after, which always left me guessing what to expect, which is what he wanted, but was very hard on me. I could trust him not to really hurt me, but the constant not-having-a-clue was very stressful for me. Sometimes he liked it that I didn't know, sometimes he was irritated that I couldn't figure out what he wanted. However, on my end, I wasn't good at asking and I was afraid to use my safeword. I know that was wrong and I assume full responsibility for that. In the end, it is my life and I know that I have to be responsible for my own safety. In the third example, I think that he was making sure I would use it. He didn't know me before, so how would he be able to judge my reactions? Again, it was the most wonderful lesson ever. He was masterful at it.

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