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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/24/2010 10:24:25 AM   
Twoshoes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow-tiger

From your tale I take away that you really wanted to jump in and try things out. You're new to this, and had no idea what to really expect from the dom you played with. For his part I'm guessing, but it sounds like he was more interested in play than in making sure you were alright. It may simply be that he's still new and shiny himself, so doesn't know how to make sure you were alright. Some people need to have that hammered into their heads relentlessly.



She was always going to jump in headfirst and try it out, then ask questions later. Some people are like that. (She made this clear in her first thread).

Luckily, she picked a decent guy:
quote:


He would never intentionally hurt me. He is very sweet and caring. We get along great.


I don't know if being reminded to "be careful" 35 times by different people helped or not... But she's quite smart and seems to take advice well.

Maybe the dude involved needs some advice too.



quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
As for the topic, I can't say a safeword. I've done things I didn't want to do, knowing full well I would be traumatized after, because I could not for the life of me say "stop." I rely fully on my Dom to know what is too much for me, which is why I need a Dom who keeps a steady communication with me and with whom I can be completely honest. I've never been able to pretend - except playfully - that I wanted to stop when really I wanted something to continue.


So you're normally assertive, possibly bratty and testy, yet you cannot assertively say "stop". I guess it's never good to assume anything...

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/24/2010 10:47:11 AM >

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/24/2010 4:38:06 PM   
jujubeeMB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
As for the topic, I can't say a safeword. I've done things I didn't want to do, knowing full well I would be traumatized after, because I could not for the life of me say "stop." I rely fully on my Dom to know what is too much for me, which is why I need a Dom who keeps a steady communication with me and with whom I can be completely honest. I've never been able to pretend - except playfully - that I wanted to stop when really I wanted something to continue.


So you're normally assertive, possibly bratty and testy, yet you cannot assertively say "stop". I guess it's never good to assume anything...


Yeah, surprising, isn't it? It's just in subspace that I'm incapable of asserting myself. When I'm doing day to day things I'm the most assertive person I've met. Go figure

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/24/2010 9:13:33 PM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
You use a lot of inflammatory language in your posts, while it seems to simply be a part of who you are not everyone will respond well to it. Especially people that haven't read your posts for the last few years.


And then there are those of us who know that sexyred gives great advice, is a wonderfully kind person, and who don't misinterpret what she says. I've had a lot of people respond to me in far more inflammatory ways than red ever does on here, and I've yet to flip any of them the bird.



Thanks so much juju, I really appreciate the kind words. You and I have had private conversations so your opinion about me matters far more than someone I have no knowledge of making a value judgement on my "inflammatory" tone.

I don't believe I am inflammatory; I believe I state my opinions with passion, humor and intensity, I am not wishy washy. I also try to be amusing on the boards and my humor tends to be eccentric and sarcastic, some like it, some don't. I tell it like it is as if someone close to me asked, I would do the same. I am not mean spirited at all. I have my good and bad days like everyone else, but this is me.

As for the poster who commented on me above, I have never encountered her, spoke to her or have been involved with her, so she has yet to experience my kindness or anything else about me. She is of course, entitled to view me in any manner she wants.

As in all things online, everything is subject to interpretation and in this thread's case, even VAA jumped in to agree that an act can be discussed negatively, but not the person.



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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/24/2010 9:31:45 PM   
VideoAdminRho


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quote:

As in all things online, everything is subject to interpretation and in this thread's case, even VAA jumped in to agree that an act can be discussed negatively, but not the person.

[off topic]*psst* That was Theta, not Alpha.  [/off topic]
Now, before one of them comes here and kicks my butt... back to the topic, folks.

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/25/2010 6:56:19 PM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminRho

quote:

As in all things online, everything is subject to interpretation and in this thread's case, even VAA jumped in to agree that an act can be discussed negatively, but not the person.

[off topic]*psst* That was Theta, not Alpha.  [/off topic]
Now, before one of them comes here and kicks my butt... back to the topic, folks.


Oops! Sorry Theta, I meant you!!

(in reply to VideoAdminRho)
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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/26/2010 10:28:33 AM   
sophiesback


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lalleee


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

People misunderstand safewords a lot. But I don't get that analogy above. Few if anyone actually thinks a safeword acts like a fire extinguisher or a seat belt - that is an obviously foolish idea.

First of all, the word "STOP" is a perfectly acceptable safe word. So is "If you hit me one more time I will fill your car with concrete."
Secondly, from a legal point of view, if you don't operate with any safe word at all, it is rape. No ifs, no ands, no buts. That is, if you will continue to do what you want, no matter what you victim says or tries to communicate, then that is rape. But there are many default safe words, including the two I mentioned in the First point above. Most people use them even if they don't realize it.

But that is generally not what BDSM people mean when they talk about safe words. There are three commonly used safe word methodologies.

1. For SAM's (Smart assed Masochists - people that like pain but don't submit) They use Red/Yellow/Green (or similar) safeword methods to control the scene. They do this even if they are a 300 lb body builder, totally un bound, being flogged by a 90 lb woman. Safewords let them keep control, which they insist on. It doesn't matter if they have been playing with the same person for 50 years and that person knows everything aboutr them - they STILL want the control, so they use safewords to keep it.

2. For Role players. This group of people are the main reason why safe words became popular. They want to be able to say "No, stop, please don't hit me with that red flogger." and have you pick it up and use it on them. To enable them to role-play and avoid legal charges or 'mistakes', they use safe words. This way they get to 'lie' to their Dom without having to worry about their Dom misinterpreting them. The better they are at playing means they can even fool someone that knows them for 50 years, so again, no matter how well you know the Dom, you still want the safewords because you think you are good enough actor to fool them. This may be arrogance on the part of the sub, but just as pain sluts brag about how much they can take, slave subs brag about how good they are at fooling Doms.

3. Non-verbal signals. These are used when the sub is unable to speak. Many times people think the Dom knows the Sub well enough to do without these. Sometimes, they are even right. But so what? There is no good reason not to use something like this. Doing so is not an indication of skill or knowledge, just of arrogance - of showing off. It's kind of like doing a trapeze act without a net - you do it to prove something to other people, not for yourself. Me, I have nothing to prove, so I use non-verbal signals whenever I gag someone. If you don't think I have skills, then put your ass where your mouth is. Or is that the other way around?




Thank you StrongSprit for explaining all the safewords. Very educational. awesome!


I'm not quite sure I agree that this was "explaining" the safewords, more of an opinion. Master and I have a safeword, which I have never used. The safeword is not so that I can be in control of the scene. It is so that I can stop the scene if I am past my breaking point. We also have an agreement on "tapping out" because I have severe nerve damage. Different parts of my body will have tingling and numbness, sometimes even my whole head, and at times I am unable to speak. The punishment for NOT tapping out or using the safeword if I need to far exceeds my ego.

< Message edited by sophiesback -- 8/26/2010 10:29:35 AM >


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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/26/2010 1:27:57 PM   
KariCloud


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I wanted to thank everyone who posted here in support of using "stop" or plain English as a safeword. I have had it shoved down my throat that I cannot use "stop" or "no" as a safeword and that this is supposedly for my "safety"... I am incapable of using safewords, it just doesn't work. I won't remember it when I need it, no matter how hard I work on trying to remember. And having a speech disorder that worsens when I'm stressed or emotional, I'm not even confident that I would be able to say anything at all, much less a word that is completely disconnected from the intended meaning.

My last play partner insisted on me using a safeword and said she'd punish me if I didn't remember or use it. But she also refused to accept "stop" as a safeword, which is something I knew from experience at least had a chance of working. Her reasoning was that I'd said stop to her before and changed my mind, so my "stop" could not be relied on as a safeword. She also thought that one might say stop as a "knee-jerk reaction" when one didn't mean it, or a person just might say it as a joke, so she said it was impossible for her to know what was meant without being a "mindreader"... I never could make sense of her reasoning at all, or understand what she really meant by any of that. I don't think I understood safewords before then, but she left me even more bewildered.

Could it just be a common mistake that new people make? I know that the books and such that I've read really do put a lot of importance on having safewords that can't be mistaken for anything else. But it seems strange to me that safewords could be so heavily relied on in real life.

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/26/2010 1:33:53 PM   
masterlink65


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if you do not use your safe word, how would he know to stop? yellow usually means chill out. if he doesnt know you too well, and you do not know him too well. you didnt speak up, and could not bring yourself to say safe word. i blame you in this

(in reply to lalleee)
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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/26/2010 1:35:49 PM   
DesFIP


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In general, non edgy play, there's nothing wrong with using stop. It's a starting point for conversation, not an end to it. So it should be followed with "what's wrong?". If you say you have a cramp and need that foot untied, you fix the problem and go on. If you say you need to stop totally, then that's what should happen.

You primarily need a safeword during such things as rape play where you will say stop/don't/let me go but may not really want to stop. In a situation like that the word red is useful because it isn't normally a word you would use. It's also helpful if you play in public because all the bystanders will hear the word red and force your top to stop and check in with you if he/she's so lost in topspace they don't pay attention.

But in a committed relationship, you can use whatever you like which includes stop. And if all you need is a two minute break before you continue, that's fine too.


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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/26/2010 2:35:20 PM   
HisEvelyn


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If I ever actually forgot our safeword, I am likely to call out 'safeword'. It's relevent, it's not 'stop' (which can be confusing for some tops unless discussed beforehand), and it is something I'd remember as my mind was fumbling for the safeword, lol. "Safeword, safeword, what's the damn safeword... fuck it... SAFEWORD!"

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/26/2010 2:51:03 PM   
afkarr


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Excellent example of why "STOP" is such a darn good safeword, it means what it sounds like, no confusion. Also, any half decent top should be paying enough attention to figure out when the sub is really not into the play or having troubel. Not that they should be mind readers, but a pleasurable reaction is far different than a distressful one, if they don't want to quit of their own accord, they can always remnd their sub of the safeword and that it's OK to use it.

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/26/2010 11:08:10 PM   
lalleee


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Joined: 7/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn

If I ever actually forgot our safeword, I am likely to call out 'safeword'. It's relevent, it's not 'stop' (which can be confusing for some tops unless discussed beforehand), and it is something I'd remember as my mind was fumbling for the safeword, lol. "Safeword, safeword, what's the damn safeword... fuck it... SAFEWORD!"


puahahahahaha

(in reply to HisEvelyn)
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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/26/2010 11:49:13 PM   
lalleee


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Joined: 7/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow-tiger


As jujubee mentioned, not everyone can say a safeword. My ex was like that, and required careful attention and constant communication. Not always easy when the sub is reduced to a quivering melty mess who's lost her capacity of language. It gets much harder when the dom happens to enjoy the sight of tears, the feel of fear, whimpering, struggling submissive.


Don't all Doms enjoy this to some extent? Having total power and terror reign over the sub?



quote:

When starting out limits are to be respected, not pushed, not bickered over. Over time things change, but at the beginning there is little to work with by way of trust and such. Really, if I can't be creative enough to find a dozen other things to rock our world instead of focusing on pushing a limit, I'm doing something wrong.


awesome. Wish all men were like you

quote:

The telling factor for me is what happens after the play, whether the dom has enough interest in making sure you're really alright.


He did. but we both knew that I was alright. The play was not hard at all. I just didn't enjoy it. What I didn't like the most was rather.. not the pain from punishment, but the reason he was punishing me for. He punished me for not being affectionate. I couldn't be ordered to be affectionate. That sort of a thing can't be ordered, can it? hated pretending to be affectionate. Which made me question if I am submissive at all.



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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/27/2010 12:34:20 AM   
aldompdx


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quote:

I couldn't be ordered to be affectionate. That sort of a thing can't be ordered, can it?


Thus the essence of surrender -- not to another, but of your own ego... in particular, the ego association that another is your source of fulfillment. Fulfillment arises in the only place you ever feel it, your very own heart. It is neither given nor taken, but can only be shared. When you become established in your own source of fulfillment, then you have it to share when you so choose.

If a partner cannot resonate with your own sense of fulfillment, then they should not expect to share in it. Beware of the self absorbed narcissist, and seek a more empathic partner who can mutually share with you.

You are how you are. There is nothing wrong with you.

(in reply to lalleee)
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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/27/2010 5:44:33 AM   
sophiesback


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From: Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: afkarr

Excellent example of why "STOP" is such a darn good safeword, it means what it sounds like, no confusion. Also, any half decent top should be paying enough attention to figure out when the sub is really not into the play or having troubel. Not that they should be mind readers, but a pleasurable reaction is far different than a distressful one, if they don't want to quit of their own accord, they can always remnd their sub of the safeword and that it's OK to use it.


So true. Last night I had an experience where I completely blacked out. Master was paying attention and caught me, and was immediately making sure I was ok. The play wasn't hard or rough, and had barely gotten started. Thankfully Master is after more than his own pleasure!

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/27/2010 7:20:16 AM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn

If I ever actually forgot our safeword, I am likely to call out 'safeword'. It's relevent, it's not 'stop' (which can be confusing for some tops unless discussed beforehand), and it is something I'd remember as my mind was fumbling for the safeword, lol. "Safeword, safeword, what's the damn safeword... fuck it... SAFEWORD!"


True. Stop is not a good safeword and neither is NO. I have found that out. You need something more direct.

I once said, I will fucking kill you if you do not stop this right now!!

And he said, yeah right.

Memories.

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/27/2010 7:34:36 AM   
Twoshoes


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I'd like to think fruits make good safewords, but I have to admit "safeword" is probably the best safeword.

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/27/2010 9:18:10 AM   
sophiesback


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Ha Ha  My safeword is something soo outlandish that I would be well past my limit to ever say it, and if I did say it, I'm sure we'd both collapse in a fit of laughter.

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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/27/2010 9:20:25 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lalleee
Don't all Doms enjoy this to some extent? Having total power and terror reign over the sub?
no.

quote:

I couldn't be ordered to be affectionate. That sort of a thing can't be ordered, can it?
Yes, it can.

quote:

Which made me question if I am submissive at all.
Not reasonable. You are not submissive in that way or to that extent. But the broad blanket statements like "Jeff is/isnot dom" or "Carol is/isnot sub" just plain never work.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 8/27/2010 9:23:56 AM >


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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Safe word and pushing sub's limits - 8/27/2010 9:27:52 AM   
sophiesback


Posts: 4039
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From: Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: lalleee
Don't all Doms enjoy this to some extent? Having total power and terror reign over the sub?
no.


I agree, and No, I'm not a Domme. Master says -I- make him feel powerful (yes, it made me swoony when he said it)  But terror reign? I -have- to be able to trust him, and if I fear him, I couldn't do that.

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