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Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/21/2010 11:37:22 PM

KitaJo

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline

I'm a sub an have been with someone who is not exactly a dominant for almost 5 and a half years. I've stayed with him because I care for him, because he loves me, because we get along splendidly and genuinely love each others company. However, despite all that I can not commit to him completely because I feel he is not enough of a dominant, aggressive? confident individual for me. This has been standing between me and what would seem to be perfect relationship.

During the course of our time together I have told him about the fact that I like being dominated and he has, albeit not too much, tried to take control. It has always felt half-hearted, or perhaps just not as much as I would want. He just never seems confident in what he is saying/doing. Never truly takes control and exerts his dominance.

This is more than an in the bedroom problem--truly I want a more masculine and sure of himself person. I don't want to give up on my relationship because of how much I truly love him as a person but after so many years of not being sure of him as my life partner I no longer know what to do. I want to be able to commit but can not without this being addressed. Is there any hope for us?

Currently he is trying much more fervently to satisfy this part of me but it continues to feel like not enough. He says to be patient with him and Im trying. Can he learn over time or is it hopeless? Should I give it more time? Is being a dom something that is simply someone's nature and if it's not there to begin with then it never will be?? Please, please if you have any sort of experience with something like this, or just thoughts in general I ask for your advice. This is tearing me apart. I'm truly depressed because I feel like we will break up if this isn't addressed and not only will I loose an amazing person but I'll also be loosing my best friend.

< Message edited by KitaJo -- 8/21/2010 11:38:55 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:02:55 AM

adx

Posts: 102
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline

Any technique may be learn, any behavior conditioned so in short yes, yes he can. Behavioral conditioning takes time however doing some dominant things may be difficult for a person to do especially if they were conditioned to behave otherwise. So if he wants to be a dom for you, he can make himself, he may not feel natural doing it he also may not like it at first. But he can make him self by way of self deceit, it can go along way, perception is reality after all.

(in reply to KitaJo)

Post #: 2

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:07:50 AM

pwnerandpwned

Posts: 83
Joined: 4/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KitaJo

Can he learn over time or is it hopeless?

He personally? No one could tell you that for sure. Could someone explore this type of relationship and grow into it? Definitely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KitaJo

Should I give it more time?

It's up to you how much time you give. As much time as you feel it takes to be certain in your conclusion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KitaJo

Is being a dom something that is simply someone's nature and if it's not there to begin with then it never will be??

We all have different levels of dominance/leadership in our personalities. Some of it is inborn, and some is what we learn. Certainly people have different capacities for how "dominant" they can be, but no one is completely without any dominant tendencies. As we grow, we may gain more or lose some of these qualities depending on what situations life brings us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KitaJo

I'm truly depressed because I feel like we will break up if this isn't addressed and not only will I loose an amazing person but I'll also be loosing my best friend.
b]

From personal experience I would say something like "Don't be hopeless, but don't be hopeful. Instead, embrace the experience and the learning you'll have from it." If you continue the relationship with intense worry of it falling apart, the extra stress seems incredibly likely to make that happen. Enjoy the intent of his efforts and see where they lead...since you can't know how it will develop...don't try and figure it out. When things begin working or things are to the point they just won't work anymore, you'll probably know. :)

(in reply to KitaJo)

Post #: 3

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 3:23:21 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

KitaJo, what is your experience level? You say that the guy isn't Dom enough - is that based on comparing him to other men who have Dommed you, other men who you've seen Domming other women, or some account you read in a book and fantasized about?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to pwnerandpwned)

Post #: 4

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 3:39:16 AM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

He's not a good match for you. DUH.

HE IS VANILLA. That's not a bad thing. Its just not what you need/desire. He doesn't float your boat, because in a very deep-down, fundamental way: he just doesn't get you. He doesn't understand about your needs in the way that a dom would. So stop trying to make him into something he's not, and go find the kind of person you truly need/desire.

He deserves someone who is a good match for him, and so do you.

How would you feel if the tables were turned, and he wanted you to go all vanilla for him and complained that your efforts in this area weren't enough?!

You'd be pissed, and rightly so. We ALL deserve someone who loves and appreciates us for who we REALLY ARE. NOT FOR WHO THEY WISH WE WERE. If you aren't into the real him, move aside and let him find someone who is.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 8/22/2010 3:40:05 AM >

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(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 5

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 4:42:46 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

He's not a good match for you. DUH.

HE IS VANILLA. That's not a bad thing. Its just not what you need/desire. He doesn't float your boat, because in a very deep-down, fundamental way: he just doesn't get you. He doesn't understand about your needs in the way that a dom would. So stop trying to make him into something he's not, and go find the kind of person you truly need/desire.

He deserves someone who is a good match for him, and so do you.

How would you feel if the tables were turned, and he wanted you to go all vanilla for him and complained that your efforts in this area weren't enough?! You'd be pissed, and rightly so. We ALL deserve someone who loves and appreciates us for who we REALLY ARE. NOT FOR WHO THEY WISH WE WERE. If you aren't into the real him, move aside and let him find someone who is.

all of this and the bolded bit ive highlighted - is really where its at.

the thing is if it were possible for a sub to sub to vanillas we would be - its hard work finding compatibility *here* - but *here* is all we've got because the bottom line is - Dominants 'get' us and we 'get' Dominants - we understand what motivates because we are the flip side of their coin. the yin and yang.

i really feel for youre situation but you have to balance things up here and decide what is the most important aspect in a relationship for you. if being Dominated supercedes love then you have a problem, if love can handle this short-fall then you have something to work on. but pushing him to be something he isnt comfortable being isnt really fair on him.

youve been together five years and he still isnt fullly on board - but in what way and to what degree. submission is submission to the man and the life you lead together. submitting to his way or his level or his approach is one way to go. it will take effort on youre part to switch off that voice going on in youre head saying 'i want more, i want it this way, that way and all other ways' but many many subs have to go through that before they eventually learn that to sub to a Dom means accepting them and their way of doing things. if you have compatibility in all other ways and he is meeting you somewhere along the way then frankly you have way more than many subs who can find the Dominance alright but not the compatibility or love. dont think that youll find the cornucopia of wonderfulness out here - people can take years to find someone and sometimes they dont.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 8/22/2010 4:44:18 AM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 6

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 5:06:53 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Sorry, you can't "learn" to be dominant (or submissive) anymore than a gay can learn to be straight or a male can learn to be female or a dwarf can learn to be a giant etc. You is or you isn't - that's the deal from birth.

It's worse than you think. The fact that he is trying to satisfy your needs basically means he's trying to be someone he just isn't - and that has a shelf life of effort or energy before the "just too damned hard" towell is thrown into the ring. IE, he's tearing apart, too!

As for your options, let me ask you this.... If the problem was that he's straight and you've discovered/accepted you're gay, what would you do? He CAN'T dominate you because he's NOT a Dominant - he just wasn't made that way, period! If you at least wanna save your friendship, one of you needs to put an end to the charade that doesn't allow him to be just plain vanilla him. Or do nothing until one (or both) of you inevitably screams "ENOUGH", and your friendship is gone, too!

Errrrm, welcome to the Forums....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 7

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 6:08:00 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

I am going to disagree somewhat with some of my esteemed colleagues above me.

When I was a child, I had fantasies of bondage. As I became older, I gathered that I wanted to have relationships with women who were interested in being tied up. Did that make me dominant? No, not really.

It wasn't until I became more edumacated in all that it meant to be dominant (use of painplay toys, ideas of controlling another and how far that could go) and started applying these things did I realize that this was really fun and exciting.

But if I had never found the right books and the right demonstrations and the right people to interact with, I'd still think that there was nothing past bondage for bondage sake.

He might just need some edumacation. He needs something to instill in him his 'Aha!' moment. Either 'Aha!' I had never considered all of the joys and possibilities that being dominant can offer, or 'Aha!' this really isn't for me but thanks for the offer.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 8

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 6:10:38 AM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

You really want the opinions of strangers on something that, your post clearly shows, you already know the answer to?

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to KitaJo)

Post #: 9

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 6:14:20 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

Jeff makes a good point, although if you've raised the issue in the past and he's not "into it", I'm erring on the side of guessing (and it has to be a wild guess given that I know crap all about your relationship other than what you've posted) that it's just not his bag.

If it's not his bag then no amount of training, videos, dot-to-dots etc are going to transform him into something he's not.

I know, it sucks, but I think the "you're just not right enough for eachother" outcome seems the most likely one to me.

I'm sorry bout that - It really is a pain in the arse this kink stuff - not only do you have to find someone who floats your boat nilla-style but they have to push the kinky buttons too... that's hard to find.

Good luck.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 10

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 6:34:26 AM

texangael

Posts: 167
Joined: 12/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

This is more than an in the bedroom problem--truly I want a more masculine and sure of himself person. I don't want to give up on my relationship because of how much I truly love him as a person but after so many years of not being sure of him as my life partner I no longer know what to do. I want to be able to commit but can not without this being addressed. Is there any hope for us?

You don't have an "us", so there's nothing to hope for.

He is as he is. You are as you are. You commit to him, or you do not. As you choose to not commit, you choose not to have an "us".

quote:

Currently he is trying much more fervently to satisfy this part of me but it continues to feel like not enough.

Topping someone when you claim to want to be dominated would be rather unsatisfying, wouldn't it.

You are attempting to change who he is. That never ends well.

_____________________________

"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no Try."
Corny movie cliche that just happens to be true.

(in reply to KitaJo)

Post #: 11

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 6:50:56 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

I disagree with the above posters telling you to walk.

1. I reiterate what I said above. If he isn't Dom enough based on you reading The Story of O, then you have some idealized concept of what a Dom should be like, and you need to make allowances for that. In other words, get real.

2. If you do in fact have experience and he isn't cutting it, there's still hope. Before you break things off with him, see if he would be willing for you to get a Dom "on the side" to scratch your itch.

If all that doesn't work, then yeah, walk.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to texangael)

Post #: 12

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 6:52:50 AM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

I can understand your not wanting to give up on a five-year relationship. That's a lot of time and shared experiences, both valuable, if not precious, things. :( My personal experience is that dominance is a sexual orientation, much like being gay. Sometimes women marry gay men (often who don't know they are gay when they get hitched) and are faced years later with a similar dilema you face (the way in which it differs is that your partner can still find sexual fulfillment with you whereas a married gay man very well might not with his wife). It's a highly personal and difficult decision. Nobody on a message board knows how it all balances out and which would be the better course, obviously. But to address what you are actually asking, I'd say the chances of him becoming the sort of person you need are very low due to (a) his very long--five year--track record of not being able to do so and (b) in all that time he's been unable to find much enjoyment or enthusiasm for this role. When someone enjoys something they do it more, they aren't reluctantly pushed into it.

I gave up a 12-year extremely close companionship to find a situation that met my sexual needs and personality better. It was very hard to do, but many years later I still think it was the right decision, as I have had so much happiness and fulfillment after that. We each loved and deeply admired the other, there were many levels on which we related perfectly, but his inability to reach me on the core-sexual-personality level caused me lots of pain, stress, and sexual frustration (I never came during sex with him. I only orgasmed when alone with my S&M fantasies.)

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(in reply to KitaJo)

Post #: 13

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 6:58:37 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

So every time you have sex, make a decision etc you sneer at him a little more. Because he isn't dominant enough for you.

Got news for you. You aren't powerful enough for him. He wants someone to meet him on equal terms. Someone who doesn't demand he do everything. So why aren't you changing to be his perfect mate? Why do you demand he change into yours?

Stop whining and start thinking. What you have in this relationship is what you'll get. Period.
If it's enough for you, then celebrate all the good things.
If it isn't, be honest and move on. You may never find what you want but at least you'll stop wasting any more years of his life.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 14

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 7:12:23 AM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

he deserves to be with someone better than you; someone who isn't trying to make him into something he's not for fear of losing you...

talk about emotional manipulation

(in reply to KitaJo)

Post #: 15

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 7:18:21 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

I was married to a really great guy, in fact, probably the last really nice guy I will ever meet.

I was married to him for 10 years. We were best friends, he treated me really well, we were intellectually compatible, same interests and sense of humor. He was really good looking. My family and friends adored him.

But guess what? He was vanilla. I knew he was when I married him, he knew I was not. When we were dating I told him I did not think this was going to work because of my needs. He insisted that he had some fantasies about it and that he would try. I loved him enough to marry him.

As time went by, not only was he not able to be dominant, he was uncomfortable topping and I was upset. So much so, that we ended up being very resentful of each other in that one area. I would never cheat on him and neither would he cheat on me.

We also had a huge issue in that he did not want kids. So we went to therapist for a long while and it was finally clear that we would not meet each other's need romantically or sexually. HE wanted to stay in the marriage since sex was not that big of deal for him, but it was for me. He did not get what I really needed even though I was articulate about it. He thought it was a bit sick, frankly.

So I divorced him, sadly and tragically. Everyone was devastated.

Then a year later, I met my ex boyfriend who was the polar opposite of my husband. We had nothing in common EXCEPT for amazing sex and BDSM. I was his first sub and I finally was able to live out what I wanted. He got me in what I wanted, but not why I did.

But guess what? We were together for years and years and while the passion was there, the relationship was not good, in fact, it was toxic. He treated me like crap, emotionally abusive, got too sadistic and overall sucked. He did not understand ME at all, on a deep level, he loved me, but he never got who I am or what I needed. He did not even really try in that area. He was happy to have the major sex life we had and did not need much else. We finally broke up 2 months ago.

I miss them both for different reasons. I have never stopped missing the friendship and great relationship with my husband (who has subsequently remarried happily) and I miss my ex because of the sex and getting my submissive needs fulfilled.

But I could not be with either of them because each one did not fulfill a very serious need.

You cannot have everything in a person and you have to compromise on certain things. I always wish I could have smushed my ex husband and my ex boyfriend into one guy, but I don't know witchcraft.

I have dated alot in between and I have yet to meet someone which combines the best of both of these men.

So you need to make a serious balanced decision on what you want in life; you have been with him for 5 1/2 years already. I sometimes think I wasted all those years with each guy, but you cannot really regret time spent loving someone, even when it does not work out.

I don't regret my husband so much since he was a great person. I do regret my ex bf though because I allowed it to go so far in such an obviously bad situation.

It is both a tough and tragic situation to be in and a hard decision to make. Sometimes it looks like the grass is greener and sometimes it really is a case of serious incompatibility.

Bottom line, is no one is going to change unless they have it in them to change and the desire to do so.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 16

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 10:19:32 AM

angelintexas

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/9/2010
Status: offline

~FR~

What Focus50 and texangael said.

You can't make someone into something they're not. They can pretend for a while, but is it really fair to expect a person to be someone they're not? Let it go.

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 17

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 10:45:53 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Before you break things off with him, see if he would be willing for you to get a Dom "on the side" to scratch your itch.

If all that doesn't work, then yeah, walk.

This.

I agree with Focus50 and others that one either is or is not born as a genuine dominant.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 18

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 10:48:42 AM

KitaJo

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline

No Ive never been with anyone else that has dommed me. Ive read things sure, but mostly fantasized. Really its more about a feeling that I get from him as a person, the lack of dominance is not merely in the bedroom it extends further than that which is why this bothers me so much.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 19

RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 10:57:16 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

When I see a question like this I always think, if someone told you that you were not good enough AS IS, how would you feel?

(in reply to KitaJo)

Post #: 20

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