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RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 11:06:22 AM   
KitaJo


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

in all that time he's been unable to find much enjoyment or enthusiasm for this role. When someone enjoys something they do it more, they aren't reluctantly pushed into it.


Many of your addressing the part about him having tried to do it before but failed and are saying that its due to his not enjoying it. Me and him have talked about this, and he says that he does enjoy it. That he and I quote, has fantasized about being with me that way many times. In our more recent attempts he claims it gets him off. So...just clarifying that part.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 11:24:26 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		What has enjoying to do with being dominant? A dominant says "Hop!" and nearly everybody who is not a dominant hops. It is as simple as that. I call bullshit. I do not believe that your mate enjoys being dominant. He is lying to you in order to satisfy you.

(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 11:32:18 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KitaJo
Currently he is trying much more fervently to satisfy this part of me but it continues to feel like not enough. He says to be patient with him and Im trying. Can he learn over time or is it hopeless? Should I give it more time? Is being a dom something that is simply someone's nature and if it's not there to begin with then it never will be?? Please, please if you have any sort of experience with something like this, or just thoughts in general I ask for your advice. This is tearing me apart. I'm truly depressed because I feel like we will break up if this isn't addressed and not only will I loose an amazing person but I'll also be loosing my best friend.

Without knowing him better who can say if it's possible for him to grow into it? I can tell you that I certainly grew into the role of owning Carol. Granted, I started out a lot more dominant, but still there's no question that I've stretched and grown.

Hands down, in my opinion, the single thing YOU can do more than anything else is to muster all your submissive energy and submit. Try to let go of any expectations you may have of what it means for him to dominate you. Consider that if it's his will to do so, then he dominates you just as surely by snuggling with you on the couch to watch a movie as he does tying you up and having his way with youPeople respond to other people.

When I was struggling (and from time to time when I still am), that is the thing Carol does which makes the most difference. Big surprise that her being "mine" encourages me to feel like she is... well... mine.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 11:34:34 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I wouldn't consider someone who constantly expected things from me that I could not do and wanted to change me... a best friend. While everyone has their feelings and they are real, you have expressed only how you feel about this, what you want and little has been said about how he feels. I want you to put yourself in his position.

He knows he isn't making you happy in this and he cares and therefore could be very afraid of losing you. That is a pretty insecure place to be for most who would find themselves there. No matter how wonderful he is or the relationship seems to be in area's he just doesn't measure up in your eyes. He is trying to please you and the success rate of that is clear and your words are not very kind here. If he is hearing anything like that at home, I am sure he could be feeling pretty threatened.

His friend... his best friend of five years whom he struggles to please, is not pleased. No matter how he has tried to change himself, still she is not pleased. What a very sad place to be. How awful that his best friend of whom he has given so much, cannot accept him and love him for who he is and wants more, more, more and for him to change.

You are the dominant in this relationship. He the submissive. He is trying to please you to keep you and is willing to try to change what he cannot change and you dominantly push for more... worse yet... it isn't real dominance any more than his topping you or trying to be something he is not is... it is most likely also, manipulative and selfish. It isn't healthy dominance or submission and neither of you will come out of this unscratched.

I don't know how old you both are and there isn't much to go on, but if you are that depressed and so unhappy, what are you going to do? Insist that he change and when he cannot expect it anyway? Try to make it happen? Find more fault in him? What will he do? Be what you want because he read a book or you did this or that or he woke up one morning and was a changed man?

What he ought to do is tell you to go straight to hell for not loving him as he is and wasting his time because you expect him to be some other guy, some vision in your head and not who he is deep inside.

I see this as very toxic.

If you cannot be happy with him, let him find someone who will be happy with him and don't take the risk of hurting him more because he cannot be something he is not. Stop cheating him of the life and love he could have with someone who loves him just as he is.

You must determine what is most important to you. What you have never had and want or what you have and share. Time to shit or get off the pot. It isn't all about you and what you want.

I know that sounds harsh and it is, but you are not the only person here and you haven't mentioned if you have children or not. If you are that unhappy and in five years he hasn't been able to give you what you want, then you have a choice to make. Between the good things you get and the good things you want. It doesn't sound like you will get both in this relationship.


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 11:47:26 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		OP, first let Me tell you that I feel for your situation.  You may have to make some decisions on what you feel has the greater priority in your life.  It's not that I want to tell you to give up hope, but five and a half years is quite a long time.  I would urge you to discuss the situation (I know that's an 'again' statement) and maybe think about Steven's suggestion if all of your wants can't be fulfilled with one partner.  It may be a solution for you or there may be another compromise out there that will work.

The reason that I wanted to contribute to this thread is not to be argumentative, but if I would take some of the above statements as fact, I wouldn't be here.  While I hate the term, I am what some people would call a "later in life" Dominant.  Unlike many, My first urges about Dominance were not when I was first exploring sexuality.  I didn't have My first M/s dynamic until My late twenties.  It wasn't until My thirties that I got My first taste for sadism.  (Granted, I don't think I would have become either of those things if I felt 'forced' in some way or I was only doing it to please someone else.  I'm kind of stubborn.)  Point being, if the only way that someone could come to this lifestyle is orientation from birth, or the way they have always been, I shouldn't be sitting here, typing this reply from a state of residual top space because I spent My evening last night beating the hell out of My slave.

No, not every person that we wish will become kinky to please a partner.  If that were the case, threads like this one would not exist.  I can't tell you what the difference is between one person and another that some folks will acquire an interest in wiitwd and others won't.  I don't know what it is that sparks in someone to become interested in all of this at a different stage in life.  I just know that it can happen because I'm typing it out right now.

OP, that's not a guarantee that it's going to happen in your case.  In honesty, if you've been waiting for that spark to happen for five years and it hasn't, I don't know how hopeful I would be.  You are the only person who can decide if it's time to give up or if that is something you even want to consider.  Maybe a different approach is what is needed or an alternative suggestion, such as Steven's.  However you handle this, I do want to wish you the best of luck.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 11:54:25 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
A whole buncha sense that must have taken half an hour to write



Lockit, that post was damn near poetry.  Beautiful.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 11:57:49 AM   
SorceressJ


Posts: 2968
Joined: 7/24/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
A whole buncha sense that must have taken half an hour to write



Lockit, that post was damn near poetry.  Beautiful.



So was LP's.. right on, Ladies..

_____________________________

‎Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc. <93>)O(

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:01:50 PM   
goodgrrl1983


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/1/2010
Status: offline 		First, I want to say that I know the lady who posted this comment and her wonderful boyfriend in real life.
They are both young, kind, caring, atrractive, pleasant people. They have the kind of relationship that outsiders would look at and envy. They are some of my favorite people to spend time with.
That being said, I myself am also a sub.
While I like to think that it doesn't necessarily have to rule every part of your life......it tends to. As many of us have said, it's who we are. But please remember, you fabulous and experienced members of this community, some of us are brand new.
And terrified.
And learning.
We respect hearing your opinions so much because you really know what you're doing (most of the time, hehe) but before you fire off a borderline meanie message to her, please keep in mind:
Both KitaJo and myself are in our mid 20s and just really waking up to what this is like for us.
It's confusing, and even more so for KitaJo, because of the length of her relationship with a guy who is widely acknowledged to be great.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:12:34 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgrrl1983
before you fire off a borderline meanie message to her

Nobody has done so.

(in reply to goodgrrl1983)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:20:43 PM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KitaJo

I'm a sub an have been with someone who is not exactly a dominant for almost 5 and a half years. I've stayed with him because I care for him, because he loves me, because we get along splendidly and genuinely love each others company. However, despite all that I can not commit to him completely because I feel he is not enough of a dominant, aggressive? confident individual for me. This has been standing between me and what would seem to be perfect relationship.

During the course of our time together I have told him about the fact that I like being dominated and he has, albeit not too much, tried to take control. It has always felt half-hearted, or perhaps just not as much as I would want. He just never seems confident in what he is saying/doing. Never truly takes control and exerts his dominance.

This is more than an in the bedroom problem--truly I want a more masculine and sure of himself person. I don't want to give up on my relationship because of how much I truly love him as a person but after so many years of not being sure of him as my life partner I no longer know what to do. I want to be able to commit but can not without this being addressed. Is there any hope for us?

Currently he is trying much more fervently to satisfy this part of me but it continues to feel like not enough. He says to be patient with him and Im trying. Can he learn over time or is it hopeless? Should I give it more time? Is being a dom something that is simply someone's nature and if it's not there to begin with then it never will be?? Please, please if you have any sort of experience with something like this, or just thoughts in general I ask for your advice. This is tearing me apart. I'm truly depressed because I feel like we will break up if this isn't addressed and not only will I loose an amazing person but I'll also be loosing my best friend.


IMO, people can learn to act dominant, quite well, but they can't learn to BE it if they aren't. It doesn't sound to me like you'll be happy unless he's actually confident, actually aggressive, actually controlling. Either one of you has to go through life pretending to be what they aren't, or you have to face facts and realize your long term happiness is important - and so is his.


_____________________________

I almost never return to a thread, so if you saw my post and want me to hear your reply, please message it to me.

(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:30:41 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The relationships I had in my twenties would not suit me now. I have changed. We all change. What is beautiful is when we find someone who changes in ways that we can bend and blend with. Yes I did have some power controlled relationships in my twenties. I had both top and bottom and in the top relationships I had, something like that would work for me, but not the same persons I had them with. We had to decide that no matter how good it was in certain ways, it wouldn't be all we wanted then or later down the road. That is what made us who we were and who we are today and how we looked at one another and how we ended.

If I had blamed them for not being who I wanted or who I thought I wanted and dragged it out, I am sure we both would have become very bitter, rather than look back and think how wonderful it was that we shared so much and how loving it was to give that up because we could ruin everything by holding on too long.

You simply cannot change people. They have their own process and if we try to blend two wonderful people who are not a good fit... and they aren't a good fit even if everything looks wonderful to everyone else, yet may be very wonderful, it can be very hurtful. If someone is so unhappy or unfulfilled that they would post their pain and confusion on a public message board, something isn't okay. That is a cry for help and surely most of us see that, but we also are not hearing his cry. No one should expect a perfect fit and sometimes you can work things out, but if you are to a point where you find fault with someone not changing as you are, you are on your way to some real ugliness. You may just have to think outside the box and if they can see working out of the box and into something else... all good, you can make it fit. If not, you can't put a square peg in a smaller round hole.

Sometimes you have to see the beauty of it all and where you have been and still make a choice to find what really makes you tick. It doesn't detract from the beauty of what was or is, unless you try to force it to become something it is not.

In our twenties we seek to find the way... search to know who we are and what we want in life. We can also be very regimented in how we view things. For example, my daughter thought certain sexual acts very wrong and saw relationships only in one way. It was wrong to do things any other way. It took time to be open to change. I know I was similar in different things. I had to experience more of life, more people and personalities to get where I was going. I had to make mistakes, I had to leave things and people behind. I was on a journey. We all have those choices to make and to think that this current place is where we will always be and there will be no sadness in change is just as bad as thinking there is nothing more out there.

Transition happens whether we want it or not and we have to leave the good and the bad sometimes in our process. Unless we are very lucky and find someone who can bend and flow because it is in them to do so and that I am sorry to say is rare.


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to goodgrrl1983)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:33:30 PM   
KitaJo


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		I can only say how I feel and if its not enough then I cant change that about myself; I already feel guilty and shitty about it but I cannot find a way to change it. Me and him agreed long ago to be completely honest in our relationship and have been fairly successful in it so it is merely with honesty that I say that I do not feel enough dominance in him. I have thought the same things you say in your post, I realize and understand what you're saying about asking him to change for me. He does want to be with me and try to make our relationship work; I believe wholeheartedly that I haven't just stayed for only myself. I continue to try in order to make something work for both of us. That's why Im here, asking about it. Trying to figure out if what you're saying is the better solution for the both of us or if its even fair to continue trying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

What he ought to do is tell you to go straight to hell for not loving him as he is and wasting his time because you expect him to be some other guy, some vision in your head and not who he is deep inside.



You make it sound like I'm only trying for myself rather than for the both of us. That is all my response entails. I'm not necessarily arguing with what you are actually saying.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:36:10 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KitaJo
...or if its even fair to continue trying.
Well, I can at least help you with that one. It's fair to keep trying until one or both parties is done. It's not your place to worry about when HE is done, only when YOU are done. So unless you're done trying then it's "fair" to keep working at it.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:52:01 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		KitaJo, when my daughter struggled with some of what you are, she hated me! lol I am very direct and even when lovingly trying to say things, she saw them from a different view. God she hated me and all I had to say! lol I knew she needed more time and I gave her that, loved her and waited. She found her way. She also realized that when I was harsh or straight with her or when I tried to be loving and go easy, I was doing what experience and life had taught me and what I saw as loving her. She no longer hates me and knows that the wisdom and love were there, but she wasn't ready for it because she had to learn it and earn it all herself. I had to learn a few things too! lol

It is clear you are tormented in ways and so must he be. Some could say that I speak of things that sound like there is no commitment in me. There are times when commitment is what keeps two people who can work things out, together. Yet when something so deep is there and our needs are not met, it doesn't matter how much commitment we have, we will drown in our sorrow.

So although what I am saying can be very harsh... and I don't have months to work on something to ease the way, it doesn't mean I can't feel your pain or that I think you are totally bad.

When I said he should tell you to go to hell... I meant what I said because you are faulting him for not being what you need, when you may have to love him and accept he isn't what you need. The blame and trying to change someone is where the ugliness comes in. Love can be bittersweet. How sweet it is and yet so bitter because we need more than what it is. But it can be beautiful all the same.

You both have to decide whether you can live true to who you are, with one another or if you must say a bittersweet good bye.


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 12:57:47 PM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline 		Sometimes the submissive in a relationship like the one mentioned in the OP sticks around much longer than she should, because she believes it's her duty to serve and support her dominant..... even if he isn't being a dominant, the dominant she needs. I've seen it many many times. She won't leave him even though she's unhappy because she thinks that would be "unsubmissive" of her. Is it unsubmissive to leave a relationship with an undominant dom?


_____________________________

I almost never return to a thread, so if you saw my post and want me to hear your reply, please message it to me.

(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 1:01:27 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 523
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline 		Have you considered poly? Maybe it doesn't have to be a matter of either or. Maybe if you started off with a threesome and you had a Dominant with you two who could dom you to do things for your BF, you would get your needs filled, and your BF might get some ideas from the Dominant that might help him find out if it's in him or not. It depends whether he would be open to doing you with another guy. Just a thought I figured I'd throw in there.

_____________________________

in obsequium hominis

(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 1:46:19 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		Fast Reply:

KitaJo, re: my answer to you about him being vanilla and just not getting you on a very deep, fundamental level, etc. :

I am just being very blunt because that is my style- I don't pull any punches. The reason I always try to chime in on these threads is because I was in a decades-long vanilla relationship that was a waste of BOTH HIS AND MY time, for at least one full decade, if not more. Sometimes love means letting go. I'm just trying to talk to people who come here with the same kinds of concerns you have, in a way that I wish someone had been able to explain it to me when I was your age. I'll never get those many years back and neither will he, and there went what should have been the best years of our youth.

Instead of lovingly setting each other free so that we could be our authentic selves (whether alone or with another partner): we ached inside for our unmet needs and desires, and resented each other deeply for not loving who we really were inside, and made efforts that fell far short of what each other really needed/desired because we just really loved each other a lot but were incompatible as far as our D/s/VANILLA orientations. I'm trying to help others avoid making the same mistakes I did, that's all. He and I both deserved better. Don't you and yours? How much longer will/can you go on like this? Another five years? Ten? Multiple decades? Where is the point of diminishing returns? Has it already passed?

_____________________________

Download SLAVE LOVER. Explicit BDSM porn, with a plot! A love story, on a FemDom planet! http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Lover-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B0031ERBLI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261973416&sr=1

(in reply to KitaJo)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 3:00:42 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Believe Me, dreamer.  I'm the first person to stand up and say that must have sucked for you.  It's got to be tough to have to look at your situation with another person and say the compatibility just isn't there. 

I almost have to look to a great organization that has nothing to do with kink says about when it's time to give up.  I think it's the folks at Al-Anon that go with the motto that it's time when you decide it's time.  Nobody else can decide it for you, because we all have different areas and lengths that we know that it takes for our personal happiness.  Nobody is required to do more or accept less just because somebody else might be.

It's great that folks gave their different perspectives.  In the end, those are only opinions for the OP, because we and the people that we've dealt with in this situation aren't her and her boyfriend.  Only they know how the story comes out for them.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 3:07:52 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgrrl1983

First, I want to say that I know the lady who posted this comment and her wonderful boyfriend in real life.
They are both young, kind, caring, atrractive, pleasant people. They have the kind of relationship that outsiders would look at and envy. They are some of my favorite people to spend time with.
That being said, I myself am also a sub.
While I like to think that it doesn't necessarily have to rule every part of your life......it tends to. As many of us have said, it's who we are. But please remember, you fabulous and experienced members of this community, some of us are brand new.
And terrified.
And learning.
We respect hearing your opinions so much because you really know what you're doing (most of the time, hehe) but before you fire off a borderline meanie message to her, please keep in mind:
Both KitaJo and myself are in our mid 20s and just really waking up to what this is like for us.
It's confusing, and even more so for KitaJo, because of the length of her relationship with a guy who is widely acknowledged to be great.



It might be helpful if you would read all of the replies in a thread before accusing people of firing off borderline "meanie" messages. I don't see one nasty comment. In fact, many people, like ME for example, shared our own history with the OP.

As for her man being "widely acknowledged" to be great? What does that have to do with anything? Your friend posted some questions and concerns about her relationship and asked for comments. No one has said her man is not good.

Interesting how people get very defensive without comprehending what has actually been said.

Oh , and as for your age and length of time in the lifestyle? All of these questions being asked and answered are also relevant to all relationships in life, D/s does not have that much to do with it. Compatibility is the issue we are speaking of here.

(in reply to goodgrrl1983)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Sub with someone not Dom enough- PLEASE HELP! - 8/22/2010 3:27:43 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline 		I agree with Lockit's post.

OP: Could you perhaps give a specific example of what type of 'dominant' behaviour you're looking for from him that he doesnt do? (Just for reading comprehension purposes.)

Like are we talking he isn't strict enough making you clean the house. Or his voice isn't commanding enough? Or he isn't selfishly asking for what he wants?

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/22/2010 3:28:19 PM >

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 40
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